User talk:Cimon Avaro/archive3

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variety

I need intelligent input on variety. See the top of the page! -- Ruhrjung 14:02 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hehe. You must be lost. This is my talkpage. Seriously, I will give my input if you fullfill my earlier stated price. --Cimon Avaro on a pogo stick 14:23 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Now, I must say that your price seemed a bit high, ...but who gives will receive, or how do the they say, the theologians? -- Ruhrjung 14:32 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

You wrote about Tampopo! Awesome. :-) (I was going to do it after I got back from this trip, honest). Koyaanis Qatsi 17:38 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Are you aware that the text your pasting into new users' talk pages has formatting issues? Specifically, starting with a space and causing the page to shoot off to the right... Evercat 02:25 2 Jul 2003 (UTC)

You're probably right. I felt a twinge of guilt, but since to wikify the stub would have meant a complete rewrite of something barely justifying it, I swung the axe. I'll be more careful next time, thanks jimfbleak 06:45 2 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Question for you at talk:Tampopo. (no hurry, though--I'm going out of town and won't be back until July 6). Koyaanis Qatsi 16:42 2 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I'd like to hear more about food pornography. Is there a notable critic somewhere that has written about it, or a site you could point me to? I'm not sure I'm finding the same ones you would recommend.... Anyway, is it an established term? Something newly coined? Something you've come up with?

Re: food pornography, or at least what I think it means--Would it be worthwhile to compare Tampopo to Eat Drink Man Woman or even Like Water for Chocolate, or would that be specious? Better yet, has someone else given an overview of the genre, if it can be said to be a genre?

Plenty of time to mull these over. I'm off to bed, leaving tomorrow morning, and won't be back in town until the evening of July 6. Best wishes, Koyaanis Qatsi 00:52 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

It seems you recognized me, but I don't recognize you. It's puzzling :-) (BTW; I have been here since March, but only now started my user page...) Ibid 22:12 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, well, I rarely get that kind of welcome anywhere, and when I do, it's usually somebody who knows me from somewhere, and quite possibly somebody I ought to know :-) AJK 19:14 4 Jul 2003 (UTC)

tutelary

Hi. A tutelary is a protective spirit, but not a demon; familiars are minor demons given by another demon of higher status to a witch or sorcerer. Pleased to (virtually) meet you :-) The Warlock 05:39 5 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I can't really understand what you wrote about the rakovalkea in How to light a fire. Please explain "on top of each other". -Smack 17:41 5 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Hi, nice for the message, ecxcept I kdont know about kilobites or nominations to shylocopes or sonmething..what did that mean?

Thanks , and God bless you!!

Antonio Monkey Martin

Cimon, please only delete pages in accordance with our policy on permanent deletion of pages. 100 Worst Britons was never listed on Votes for deletion. --Eloquence 23:01 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, orava is Russian for a boisterous and possibly destructive bunch of people.
Still awaiting your reply on my talk page regarding Finnish fire-building techniques. -Smack 16:08 11 Jul 2003 (UTC)

You said that lumitalos don't exist but they do (or at least did); they were built in Hancock and Houghton, Michigan in the winters of 2001-2002 and 2002-2003. --Daniel C. Boyer 17:45 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Saw your comment over on Daniel C. Boyer's page about American Finns and politics, and thought I would share a quote from my favorite Senator, Paul Wellstone:

And so I went out to speak at a community that those of us in Minnesota call "Alex" — Alexandria, Minnesota. I gave a speech at a big farm rally, and as soon as I finished, a big guy — a lot of guys look big to me — came up and he said, "what nationality are you?" I said to myself, ‘I can’t believe this.’ I said, ‘I’m American.’ He said, "Where are your parents from?’ I said, "well, my father fled persecution in Russia. And, my mother’s family fled the Ukraine, although she was actually born in New York City. He looked at me, and said, ‘You are a jew!" I want to tell you, I wrestled at the University of North Carolina, and I was ready, and I said, "Yes, I am." And he stuck out his big hand, and he said, "buddy, I’m a Finn, and us minorities have got to struggle together." One of the reasons I really love Minnesota.

Hephaestos

None at all, actually. :) - Hephaestos

WVO is an acronym for Waste Vegetable Oil and it´s very used in renewable energy fields.

Best way I've found to deal with vandalism is through observation, that is, watching the individuals long enough to recognize a particular pattern. It can be quite time-consuming (see for example the page history on spectral envelope).

Often it's not possible to determine if an IP is a particular known vandal or not; the best approach, at least at first, is to revert obvious vandalism, and if it continues have a look at the user contributions page (for an IP this can be gotten to just by clicking on the IP number in recent changes).

For repetitive vandals like Michael, there is a list of pages associated with them (see Wikipedia:Favorite pages of banned users and User:Michael). Sometimes it's helpful to trace the IP to find out the provider, here are some tools copy-pasted from my local start page:

<a href="http://www.arin.net/whois/">ARIN.net whois

<a href="http://www.ripe.net/db/whois/whois.html">RIPE.net whois

<a href="http://www.apnic.net/apnic-bin/whois.pl">APNIC whois

Of course, these are hardly definitive; they're best for telling who someone's not. For example, if someone's vandalizing spectral envelope from Texas, I can be pretty sure it's not the ones who have done that before. Likewise if someone I think is Michael shows up as being logged in from, say, somewhere in Australia, I can be pretty sure it's not Michael.

Hope this is helpful. - Hephaestos 22:09 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Oh, please delete Talk:Vietname History. Not aware of that you just delete the article. - Wshun

"You may also want to specify that you are not me, nor in any way connected with me. (my usernumber is 9993.) "

I thought I was paranoid :-) (I've made user accounts for a dozen different versions of my handle and my real name). My user number is 62... Hm.. maybe I should make some more user accounts. ;-) --mav

Thanks for the intro, Cimon. My interest in Luther comes from being a spiritual disciple of his, a publisher and translator of his work on the internet, a pastor of the Lutheran Church -- Missouri Synod, a church historian and a instructor at the night school division of a university.

I came to the article when very loud complaints came from folks who had seen it. The article was, when I saw it, just an excuse to trash the reformer, incomplete by far. My intent was to fill it out, bring it to an NPOV state and to make it something I wouldn't mind my students quoting in their papers. I ended up a kind of catalyst that set off folks that would, on the one side, turn Luther into a superhero, and, on the other side, an archvillian.

Where I hope we will be when we're done with it and other related articles, is to have a fair, balanced, chronicle of who Luther was, what he believed and what his significance is. In other words, doing pretty much what other encyclopedists have done. By the way, see [1] for an example. CTSWyneken 22:06 27 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for your welcome ;-), but I have been a regular contributor to nl.wiki mostly for a year of so. I was trying to clear up some inconsistencies in the interwiki links. (Split up the prism page etc.) nl:Gebruiker:Jcwf 152.163.252.65 02:45, 29 Jul 2003 (UTC)

You should reconsider your vote on New Imperialism.

A temp page with an uncertain future that is not a communally edited text but a rival to the main article by one single user should not be advertised as a rival on the main page. PP’s temp page was not created not as a communal new edition of an article but as a rival to a communally drafted text.

It is bad policy to effectively present a reader with two alternative rival pages. It gives the impression we are offering them two POVs where in fact we are in the business of one NPOV. Right now, the talk page where the temp maximum visibility. The article will be split soon once this dispute is put to rest and there's no reason cut out relevant information. This would set a very bad precedent. Jtdirl, a professional encyclopedist, has repeatedly stated that this goes against every principle of encyclopedic design.

It's also unfair to all the other contributors who have worked on this article. It's also irresponsible to link such a page to an article that has attracted the kind of peer editing that we've seen on prominent articles, such as WWI and WWII. This is not solely my article, as PP claims. Others have been doing substantial work. 172 07:15, 29 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I think I will give my reply at the relevant talkpage. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 07:44, Jul 29, 2003 (UTC)

172 vs. Cimon Avaro on the New imperialism page

Thank you for at least replying. But this issue isn't about NPOV. The concern is that it might be mistaken as an NPOV issue by readers who see a link to an alternative version.

This is actually still the most cogent point in favor of not having the link on the main page; made by you or any other. (what you say below, is to me much less to the point, but I will address it as well) But without being the least bit facile, it is equally true, that readers looking at the campaign to depracate the other page might mistake it for an attempt to silence a divergent viewpoint. (Which it of course isn't, any more than being a question of NPOV).

But the much larger point is that the idea of two rival articles is a terrible precedent that could go a long way in undermining the integrity of the entire encyclopedia. Right now, the temp page is the work of a single user, touted as a replacement for the community-edited version by a single user. The article New Imperialism was begun over half a year ago and has since been the subject of substantial peer-editing by dozens of contributors. Right now PP's version belongs on the talk page, posted as a proposition by a single user much like a single user has the right to propose any idea on the talk pages, but not on the main pages. The temp page is an idea that belongs on the talk page, not an alternative version for readers. It will not be an alternative until there has been substantial dialogue agreeing to promote it on the very talk page on which it belongs.

I find this argument singularly alarmist, wrongheaded and biased. If no one will edit or endorse the alternate version, even if it is given an (at least proximately) level playing field, it will in the natural course of things either be axed at VFD or moved to Meta. (eventually)

Trying to monkeywrench it before it's even got it's motor running is something I wan't no part in. To say this spat undermines Wikipedia in any singular way sounds to me that you are much too worried about Wikipedia. If we all act according to our best judgement (which I certainly did), Wikipedia will take care of itself.

Your vote could set off a chain reaction that would entail single contributors establishing alternative articles on many other subjects. One could just say that he dislikes some aspect of the WWII article and then set up a link to a rival version on the main page connecting to his idiosyncratic alternative. This is a dangerous development that could threaten the design of the encyclopedia whereby we have one article for one subject. Who knows, this could be the end of the project. This could be the end of collaboration and the beginning of many articles on a single subject. Collaboration (arguing and compromise) and dialogue on the talk pages is what brings quality to the articles. What enables Wikipedia to function is at stake. Jtdirl is right when he laid out these arguments earlier. 172 09:01, 29 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I am (not!) properly intimidated that you think my having voted my conscience may have such dire consequences as you describe. Your hyperbole does your case no favors. This problem may require strong action, but it does not require wrong action. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 09:41, Jul 29, 2003 (UTC)

Count yourself lucky that you weren't around when Lir first arrived or we had to deal with Helga or 24. The current situation with New Imperialism is very tame in comparison. --mav 22:36, 29 Jul 2003 (UTC)

On holiday from wikipedia.

Hi. Don't be surprised, if I don't immediately reply to your message on this page. I am off for the weekend. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick

So what are your thoughts on New Imperialism (temp)? Pizza Puzzle

I dont think your expertise is relevant. I certainly dont feel that 172s "expertise" is relevant to his opinion on any article. The question Im asking is, "Since you claim to be ignorant of the subject -- which article appears to be something you could more easily read and understand?"

Your complaints about 172s refusal to shorten his article -- seem to indicate that you want something a bit less rambling. I have tried to do that. You made only two complaints against my article -- one was a superficial comment regarding "see also:"s placed within the text. I have removed the two that I could find. Your other comment regarded a POV portrayal of Chamberlain as an "uber-imperialist" -- my article does not even portray him as an imperialist (although 172s article does go into a lengthy aside about Chamberlain and his descendants and their familial attachment to a gread Imperial Union!!)-- mine merely makes a brief reference to his arguments about supply and demand.

So now I ask again, "Is there anything you can find wrong with my article?" Pizza Puzzle

Hi Cimon. You are listed as having expressed an opinion on whether or not Daniel C. Boyer should be deleted. Can you please turn that opinion into a formal vote? Go to Talk:Daniel C. Boyer. Thanks. -- Tim Starling 09:52, Aug 2, 2003 (UTC)

Dear Cimon, i'm posting deleted nonsense pages in Wikipedia:Deleted test to make life easier for you admins and to put VfD on a diet. Cheers, Muriel Gottrop 15:12, 6 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Substub

Julius Evola? Come on, you can do better than that!—Eloquence 08:17, Aug 7, 2003 (UTC)

Toinen kotimainen kieli

I've not for long laughed as heartily and reliefed!
Why on earth hadn't anyone else (me for instance) come up with the splendid redirect idea before???
-- Ruhrjung 20:58, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)

WTF? -- Wikipedia Weasel Patrol?? - My guess is either you were drunk, or your login was hijacked. :) -戴&#30505sv 19:39, Aug 8, 2003 (UTC)

About The "Weasel Patrol".

Obviously not a Lela Dowling fan ;) Well, atleast it would have been non-denominational.

To be honest I was counting the minutes it would take for someone to move it back. (not that I didn't toy with the idea of getting into a move page war over it :)

But seriously, "Wikipedia Weasel Patrol" would have had the advantage of being self-deprecating rather than self-aggrandizing. Also, honestly, if it gets named into "Shepherds", I will "unilaterally" excise my name from it. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 21:51, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Terve! re: Toinen kotimainen kieli LOL! I agree with Ruhrjung here, great improvement! :)

Hups! On se Upsalan juttu jäänyt melkein unohtumaan. Ei ole vielä ihan varma lähdenkö sinne. Täytyy kysellä kavereilta onko sinne muitakin lähdössä. Palaan asiaan. Vain että propellipipo? :) -- Jniemenmaa 12:11, Aug 10, 2003 (UTC)

Hmm. looks like I will not be going at all (but there is still a small possibility). I live in the southern suburbs of "Tukholma" so I would not stay there for more than one day (prob. Saturday). I do not have any idea for accomodations, sorry. And the damn thing costs 200 SEK for a day... damn, last time I was at Finncon (in Jyväskylä) it was free. -- Jniemenmaa 15:22, Aug 11, 2003 (UTC)

Brickbat

Most of what you've done here has seemed rather-to-very wise, why I scratch my head for your change on the Finlandization article. Please note the sentence: In Finland the international usage of the term is often perceived to reflect a prejudiced and uninformed view. Is there really a strong reason to repeat the same message with other words a few lines later: In Finland the use (by others) of the brickbat "Finlandization" was perceived as an inability to understand the practicalities...?

...the brickbat word, by the way, is unknown to me, but I sence it might be one of these examples of colourful Finnish language, which often seem over-charged in translations. ...but as I wrote - I do absolutely not know about that.

Please also note that, as the disposition of the article is done, there was one paragraph on "how the term was actually understood" in each of 1/ the Nato debate, and 2/ Finland. In my personal view there might be another minor flaw with that disposition, as it maybe too much gives the impression that a "NATO-view" and a "Strauß-view" were one-and-the-same. But, I've not yet figured out if this issue is particularly important for me...
-- Ruhrjung 12:00, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I fixed the repetition issue. As for "brickbat", it is perfectly standard English. Sorry you don't know the word. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogostick

Good! (to address the imbalance)
Nice! (with the improvement)
Cool! (with the brickbat)
--Ruhrjung 06:20, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Thank you for the welcome. I am not new to Wikipedia but have decided that the sexuality articles need cleanup and feel that it is best accomplished under a separate user name. SquareNot 03:53, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Have you seen the crap with which Nostrum persistently vandalized Catholicism? 172 01:38, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Well, I take comfort in the fact that your memory is so short (yes, I was involved in that debacle). I already noted positively in my mind that you were able to mend fences with Graculus in such short form, and even recommended him for sysophood! That was classy.

Now if you could just do something as classy with Nostrum. (?) He is not to be coddled too much, but neither should you lose faith in the human ability to learn, before it is proven conclusively that a user can not be "assimilated". -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 01:58, Aug 15, 2003 (UTC)

Every edit by this user has entailed vandalism, before and after his reappearance. After his unfortunate comeback, he defaced the Holocaust article and vandalized Pat Robertson (both under his username and as an anon) with the same degree of persistence with which he vandalized Catholicism. BTW, how dare you compare this troll, who's in league with Michael, JoeM, and Palestine liberator, to someone of Graculus' caliber? Don't fall for Nostrum's manipulative antics. He's just seeking to distract the issue of his vandalism by getting other users to attack me rather than his vandalistic contributions, such as the his statement that 'Pat Robertson has a small penis.' in the Robertson article. 172 04:10, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I would cordially request that you learn to read. I did not "compare" Nostrum with Graeculus. I complimented your ability to let bygones be bygones, apparently without justification. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 04:23, Aug 15, 2003 (UTC)

I can see from your latest comments on the administrators' page that you're beginning to realize that none of the users who have criticized my behavior have ever worked with me. Not you, Angela, or Tim. Never. You guys just jumped into a couple of forest fires with which I was involved, felt that I wasn't being nice enough to the poor vandals, and started attacking me non-stop since. You people are going to force me to leave the site. I will not edit any pages if my sysop powers are revoked. I've done nothing to deserve being disgraced and will not continue working with a cloud over me. The issue on New Imperialism was Lir/Pizza Puzzle's conduct; he just successfully distracted everyone and got them to attack me instead because he knows how to manipulate people and divide legitimate users against each other. Same with respect to Nostrum on Catholicism and other articles. 172 07:57, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Oh great! Please read the few messages above your last one. Non-stop attacks? Please! Non-stop attempts at getting you to realize that vandals will out, and that it isn't your responsibility, or credit that they do not have a free reign. Vandals will be vandals, but sysops should be better. That is all that most of us have (in vain) tried to get you to realize. (BTW if you cannot edit wikipedia with just ordinary user rights, I have no sympathy for you; you obviously love your sysop rights, not Wikipedia) -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 08:27, Aug 15, 2003 (UTC)

More unsubstantiated repetition of charges. Great. I'm going to stop this futile argument with you. From now on, I think that I'll have to stop corresponding with someone who's never worked with me. 172 08:30, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Took a vacation in California. It was great! Poor Yorick 13:20, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Keep your head cool man!

Keep your head cool man! Go out and take a beer or something. I know I will. As a matter of fact, I'am going right now! :) -- Jniemenmaa 13:25, Aug 15, 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome

Thanks for the welcome. I have to say this is becoming a fairly addictive way to piss away time. I can burn time and yet feel like I'm doing something productive. Very dangerous. With most other follies, a healthy reserve of guilt builds up after I've frittered away a sizable enough block of time. Not here. :) Cheers, SpeakerFTD 22:15, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome and the tips. I'm starting to get the hang of it (formatting, especially) through basic copy-editing and such, and your tips have helped. Kaijan 05:31, 21 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Your Name... ;-)

Hi Cimon,

I was just wondering what Google whould say for "Avaro": "User:Cimon avaro - Wikipedia ..."

You are the number 1! ;-)

I really like your name, it's easy to spot in discussion and it is easy to keep in mind ;-) Fantasy 13:20, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I answered on my talk page. Thanks for letting me know + MANY thanks for the joke ;-) Fantasy 20:06, 24 Aug 2003 (UTC)

VfD

When you list a page on Votes for deletion you must say "Listed on Votes for deletion" on the page you are listing. Otherwise the page will not get deleted. --mav 23:56, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC)

1982 Page

Hi Cimon - the reason I put the _NOTOC_ on the 1982 page was that the TOC appeared inside the "See Also" box on the right (which happens to be the first section with a heading). That looked extremely ugly and wrong (you can see it here). If you have a solution to this problem, please feel free to apply it and remove the _NOTOC_ . uriber 17:29, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I'm with you on your plan to move "See Also" to the end. Anyway, any decision made on this will involve quite a lot of work to implement (there are a lot of years) - so it better be a final decision which everybody (OK, most people) agree upon. uriber 18:06, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Actually, I found a simple solution (I found it on the 1967 page - I'm pretty embarassed I didn't think of it myself) - I just left the See Also as a regular "strong" text - not a section header - so the TOC appears before the first actual header. uriber 21:12, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Protest

Close down your user page in protest against software patents! -- Tim Starling 03:56, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Finnish press release

I joined the effort to translate the press release to our beautiful langauge. :) One problem is that the finnish wp seems to lack some basic article such as the one on what NPOV is. These should also be fixed before the press release goes out.. damn, too little time. -- Jniemenmaa 12:14, Aug 28, 2003 (UTC)

He looks like he's gone for the moment. I'll keep watch and protect it if he comes back. --Jiang 22:28, 28 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Finnjävel

I would suggest that some Swedes use -djävul or -jävel or some mixture thereof on virtually any nomen, as in: Inte fan träffade han spikjäveln, inte.

Tyskjävel, Ryssjävel, och Finnjävel are probably quite similar terms, but I refuse to believe that the suffix carries much meaning.

On the other hand, there are (in Malmö at least), a set of racist terms for people originating in Southern Europe and further away, which are used rather commonly and definitely are associated with somewhat hostile feelings.
--Ruhrjung 11:47, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)