User talk:Heran et Sang'gres

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Queen Min

Heran, you made extensive change to the Empress Myeongseong with no explanation on the discussion page. There are several points with which I find myself in disagreement - I'm particularly concerned by your changing the word "assassinated". That seems like you are promoting a particular point of view, something that inevitably leads to edit wars. Let's not, please. Please post on the discussion why you felt the changes necessary, ask for comments, and be respectful of those comments. --Dan 15:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Regarding your question to Dan at his discussion page, 太后/태후 and 皇太后/황태후 are effectively the same. One is the shorter version of the other.Sghan (talk) 09:34, 3 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Talk:Hwang Jin-i#Her picture

ping, ----Erkan Yilmaz 22:18, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Request for move of Empress Myeongseong

Hello, Heran et Sang'gres. Sennen goroshi (talk · contribs) has requested for move to the article of Empress Myeongseong to Queen Min. Since you've participated in editing and discussing the article, your input would be appreciated on this. Thanks.--Caspian blue 18:02, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

AfD nomination of Lireo

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Lireo. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

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Title

Hi! Please do not use the uncommon title in en "the Grand Prince". The title was pushed by socks of this banned user and it is thought as a uncommon peacock title in en. Please google it. And please do not overlink. See WP:REPEATLINK. Thank you. Oda Mari (talk) 08:20, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Will not be doing anything reckless until a concensus is reached. Heran et Sang'gres (talk) 09:38, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please write your reply at here, not on my talk page. To tell the truth, I have no idea the appropriate title. But when I googled Grand Prince XX, I don't remember who it was, a few weeks ago the title was used only at en:WP. What do History books written by en native historian decades ago say? As far as I know, the title is not uncommon in en speaking world and I don't think it's an appropriate title. But I'm not an expert on the Korean History, and leave the matter to Korean editors. Oda Mari (talk) 09:48, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally, I don't think it's a good idea to use the piped link with prince title like [[Sejo of Joseon|Yi Yoo, the Grand Prince Suyang (이유 수양대군)]]. It is confusing for readers to know who's who. The name Yi Yoo and the article name/the highest title Sejo of Joseon will do. Oda Mari (talk) 10:11, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Even I, who's not even a native Korean, do not even know what title to use. And it's extrememly difficult and complicated to try and translate the other titles of non-royals/yangban aristocracy who've married their sons/daughters to the royal family. To tell the truth, one person might have that many titles, but I tend to discard those I CAN'T translate and retain those familiar-looking ones, simply given the fact that I don't know how (with my limited Korean and Chinese semantics). But, saying that one of his titles were familiar, let's say this person was in the Uijeongbu and held the title of Jwauijeong (Second State Minister), that's when I translate.

Actually, I picked up the "Grand Prince" title since I began revising the monarchs' families way back 2009. Besides the fact that yes Grand Prince is entirely en:WP-exclusive, but then majority of the world's users are just lazy and would want Wikipedia as their source material (me being a bit guilty on some counts there). And I thought then that it was perfect since it was a literal translation.

Anecdote: When I was doing Empress Myeongseong and her husband Gojong, I was having problems with attempting to translate daewongun (대원군 大院君), since I read in the Joseon Dynasty it meant "Grand Internal Prince". It's preposterous I admit (after one commented it that "What was its meaning?"); it literally translates as "Prince of the Great Court" in court-speak, but practically the term means a monarch's father who had never reigned himself since he was ineligible to the throne in the first place. Joseon Dynasty politics are very hard to understand, nonwithstanding if you attempted to watch each and every historical drama 2-3 times, you'd never understand it for someone with limited knowledge.

Getting back, about the history books thing, I have no idea; I'm only an amateur who wants to have things perfectly fine and in order, so saying I really have no authority on that. But then if you contest the "Grand Prince" due to being uncommon and to peacock-ish title, what would be better? Even I'm not an expert, I just pick up things here and there.

I use the piped link because it would be better if they knew who and what he was called from infancy before he was promoted. Like the example with Sejo. He was just known as "Suyang Daegun" during the reigns of his father, his elder brother, & his nephew, before he usurped the throne in his coup of October 10, 1453. And by then when he was King, no one referred to him in any name (be it his birth name or his Princely title) since it was both taboo and lèse-majesté, but only the style "Your Highness" and any other court titles and styles the King was assigned to. And the temple name (the names we are familiar with) of the monarch was only given and pronounced once he was dead. Even the first 3 Kings who abdicated (especially Taejo) were only referred to a special title (forgot the actual one) since they were still alive, and it would be impractical to have more than one monarch alive in the land.

Until then, until there's no concensus yet, I'll voluntarily refuse to continue on towards revising the monarchs' families well onto Sunjong. I'd even gladly allow any edit reverts to the previous state it was, JUST DON'T TOUCH THE AHNENTAFELS/ANCESTRY CHARTS. Heran et Sang'gres (talk) 11:30, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I use the piped link because it would be better if they knew who and what he was called from infancy before he was promoted? I don't understand your reasoning. Why don't you write like this? "Yi Yoo, the Grand Prince Suyang. Sejo of Joseon." It's simple and not confusing. And readers can know every title he had. Oda Mari (talk) 07:43, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, after much deliberation with myself, I finally came up with a solution: table format. Here are 5 examples that I've come across, and my personal opinions on each:

Kangxi Emperor#Family - I won't be separating the children from the consorts, since order of birth doesn't necessarily denote order of precedence.
Qianlong Emperor#Family - same with above
Louis XIV of France#Issue - ...specifically the "Illegitemate Children"
Henry VIII of England#Marriage and issue - actually this is the format that will be based on: the consorts would be grayed as indication of the consorts' status: white means legitemate, gray means others...
Emperor Meiji#Concubines and children - just as a reference

What do you think. Oh, and if any of the issue became King, I'd just indicate. I'll just fix the headers so that I wouldn't be too stressed out. Heran et Sang'gres (talk) 14:27, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Table format is a good idea. I like #3, but 4 and 5 are not bad too. I don't mind any of them. Go ahead and edit the articles! Oda Mari (talk) 08:03, 23 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your input. I actually came up with the final format just last night (combined all the 5 suggestions so they would be uniform), so thanks.

Though I did say earlier I wouldn't continue with revising the families until the title issue was resolved. I came up across the article of "Prince", and the title of "Grand Prince" is there under the section of "Korea". How about it?

Until no concensus or resolution is reached, I wouldn't continue on editting/revising the articles. Heran et Sang'gres (talk) 08:58, 23 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I've changed my mind. Table format is too complicated and tacky and the stress of doing that would be too much for me (if it were only easy like Excel). I'd retain the earlier format, but I'm going to indicate at the end, with a dash, on who became king.

Like this: Yi Yoo, the Grand Prince Suyang (이유 수양대군), 2nd son - [[Sejo of Joseon]]

'Coz honestly, the current edit...looks so unorganized. And ugly. No offense, but...everything's so organized and you have the trash inserted.

But my stance still remains. Until there's no concensus/resolution with the title issue, would not be revising anything. Heran et Sang'gres (talk) 04:37, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

May 2013

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Red links

Hi Heran the following op-ed might be of interest .Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2014-08-13/Op-ed. Basically red links are not intrinsically bad, it let's people know that an article is missing and serves as an invitation to anyone who sees it for it to be writen.--KTo288 (talk) 18:09, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Fixed. Thanks for the message. Heran et Sang'gres (talk) 08:03, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Scarlet Heart

Hi. Please don't add original research to articles. You comparing the two dramas is original research, and also you are adding too much details about characters. Wikipedia is not a fan forum. Please keep WP rules. Thank you. Teemeah ^{편지 (letter)} 12:21, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Knowing bros

Hey... you are about to start an edit war on knowing bros and you need to stop. As I said in the edit comment, the guests and remarks section is exactly for that.. not about details of songs that will be released regardless if they were featured on the episode or not. There is a space for those in the main page under the other works section where the previous song "Sweet Dream" where all the production details are there. That section is for guests only and special remarks about the members. So, please be kind enough and revert your one-sided undo. Thanks. 115.178.250.163 (talk) 08:47, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Knowing Bros warning

DO NOT start an edit war, PLEASE!! You have been making changes to the format that the page has been using without opening a discussion! You are the only one complaining about the format and undoing the correction, thinking you are the only one with the correct format!! Open a discussion before changing. Thanks. 115.178.238.179 (talk) 10:12, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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