User talk:MarkWKidd

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Speedy deletion of Brett Ratliff (Musician)

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Memorial Day headaches

Could you read over MOS:HEADINGS...should be fix for the big day so section anchors work.

~~Longest Continuous Observance of Memorial Day~~

Longest continuous observance of Memorial Day 👍

--Moxy 🍁 03:35, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Moxy I have done this. I have also restored the Liberian section and tried to edit the copy to better explain why it should be included given that "Decoration Day" has been merged into the "Memorial Day" article. I am looking for high quality primary and secondary sources about Liberian Decoration Day to add, which has not been as easy as for Appalachian Decoration Day.

Once there is more information it should be clearer why Liberian Decoration Day should be described separately, but next to Appalachian Decoration Day.

What do you think about splitting off a new article along the lines of "Decoration Day (Appalachia and Liberia)" for the living ongoing traditions in those places. That would leave the precedents for Memorial Day/Decoration Day content where it is now, just moving the living Decoration Day traditions to their own space.

MarkWKidd (talk) 15:24, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The more I think about this the more it seems like the Appalachian and Liberian Decoration Day content should be its own article, so I have submitted a draft Decoration Day (Appalachia and Liberia) for approval based on what is currently in Memorial Day. If approved, I would propose only leaving one paragraph for each in the Memorial Day article along with a link to the new one.

MarkWKidd (talk) 03:29, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Decoration Day (Appalachia and Liberia) has been accepted

Decoration Day (Appalachia and Liberia), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, MarkWKidd

Thank you for creating Physalis grisea.

User:Hughesdarren, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Nice work and thanks for creating the page, I added a bit of stuff, could you please check my work. Cheers

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Hughesdarren (talk) 11:43, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

thank you for enhancing the Physalis grisea article, the additions look good! MarkWKidd (talk) 15:30, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Physalis

"at least one subgenus": a genus with one subgenus is not possible - it either has zero, or two or more. Having looked into the literature a little, the former subgenus Physalis has become Alkekengii (+Calliphysalis?), and subgenus Quincula segregated as Quincula, but it wasn't immediately obvious what has happened to subgenus Physalodendron. If the genus is divided into subgenera one of them has to be the type subgenus Physalis. I haven't tracked down what the new type species is, but I suspect that it is in subgenus Rydbergis, which would become subgenus Physalis. POWO still includes P. arborescens, P. campechiana and P. melanocystis within Physalis, and I haven't found any source that reclassifies them.

conservation of Physalis to the exclusion of Alkekengi - https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/tax.615019 publication of generic name Calliphysalis - https://meridian.allenpress.com/rhodora/article-abstract/114/958/133/110150/Calliphysalis-Solanaceae-A-New-Genus-from-the Lavateraguy (talk) 10:24, 21 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your interest in this! I am not experienced with the Wikipedia standards for botanical articles, thank you for your suggestions. I have just myself discovered that there is some valuable content in the German language article which I think might help here: https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Blasenkirschen?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

Many of the recent scholarly articles on Physalis also mention that they are using an as-yet unpublished taxonomy by Sullivan which will be published by Oxford. It seems that even before publication it is guiding the way Physalis taxonomy is being described in the literature.

I realize this message doesn't address all the points you raised, but I hope it might continue the discussion. MarkWKidd (talk) 02:27, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above points aren't specific to Wikipedia - they relate to the rules of plant nomenclature.

You are allowed to incorporate translated material from other Wikipedias - you've been pointed at the rules for the process previously in your talk page, which will be a better source for the procedure than I am. Google Translate's grammar and word choice (e.g. bloated should be inflated) aren't perfect, but the material looks pretty good. Ideally one would append material on the segregation of Alkekengi and Calliphysalis to the end of the taxonomic history.

Having glanced at Google Scholar it looks as if the Sullivan work is unlikely to resolve all the issues - it's a treatment of the genus for the Flora of North America project, and as such won't need to address subgenus Physalodendron, or Physalis microphysa. But it might declare a new type for the genus, if this hasn't already been done. I'm having trouble accessing the floranorthamerica.org web site (expired certificate?) but a draft of Sullivan's treatment might be present there.

It looks to me as if Physalis will end up restricted to subgenus Rydbergis, at which point use of subgenera evaporates, but to assume this would be original research. Renaming subgenus Rydbergis as subgenus Physalis is in the same boat.

Kaderit et al, Which changes are needed to render all genera of the German flora monophyletic? Willdenowia 46(1): 39-61 (2016) write "Whitson & Manos (2005) demonstrated that the two species of Physalis L. listed for Germany, P. alkekengi L. and P. peruviana L., fall into two distantly related clades of Physalinae. The authors argued: “To correct the paraphyly of Physalis, nomenclatural changes are required. Options include restricting the name Physalis to P. alkekengi, the type, and renaming the 75+ species of New World Physalis, or broadening the circumscription of Physalis by uniting the majority of the Physalinae into a single genus. However, the least taxonomically disruptive approach for dealing with this problem is to re-typify Physalis using a Linnaean species that is a member of the morphologically typical Rydbergis clade, such as P. pubescens. The atypical species could then be recognized as four small genera (for P. carpenteri, P. alkekengi, P. microphysa, and subgenus Physalodendron), which would produce a morphologically homogeneous Physalis. A proposal to re-typify Physalis is currently in progress.” This proposal has been made by Whitson (2011), and conservation of Physalis L. with conserved type has been recommended (Applequist 2012). If accepted, P. alkekengi should be known as Alkekengi officinarum Moench."

What we are currently lacking are publications defining a new type for Physalis (Whitson (2011) in combination with Applequist (2012) might count, but I find the wording of the former rather tentative), raising Physalodendron to the rank of genus (stat. nov.) and giving new combinations (comb. nov.) for its species in that genus, and describing a new genus (gen. nov.) for Physalis microphysa and a new combination for the species. We don't seem to have a modern and coherent classification for Physalinae/Physalidinae (usage prefers the former, but I suspect that the latter is technically correct - compare Iridaceae from the genus Iris). Giving a taxonomic/research history may be the best we can do.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/tax.602047 Lavateraguy (talk) 13:47, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm so grateful that you are also interested in this topic! I have added a few reference links to the Physalis Talk page, including the 2016 Whitson proposal to define a new type, which is P. pubescens. I have not been able to work much on this over the last few days but I will continue to respond to your points, and overall improve the articles. Cheers! MarkWKidd (talk) MarkWKidd (talk) 08:24, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

According to POWO Physalis minima is a synonym of Physalis angulata, which is a New World plant naturalised across much of Africa, tropical Asia and Australia, as well as in parts of Europe and temperate east Asia. POWO also treats Physalis clarionensis as a synonym of Physalis cordata. From the original description it seems likely that Physalis macrosperma belongs to section Lanceolatae, but an explicit statement seems to be lacking. Lavateraguy (talk) 11:32, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Calliphysalis

Standard Wikipedia practice is not to have separate genus and species articles for monotypic genera. See Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(flora)#Monotypic_taxa.

If you ask at WT:PLANTS someone may be able to help sort this out. (The simplest solution would be to delete the genus article, and then move the species article to the genus article, but the process for deleting the genus article may not be easy.)

Would Alkekengi be in the same boat? Lavateraguy (talk) 19:52, 21 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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