Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dazzling Girl (Shinee song)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. If at some point it becomes appropriate to write an article and you'd like this draft, see Category:Wikipedia administrators who will provide copies of deleted articles Wily D 15:24, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dazzling Girl (Shinee song)

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Non-notable unreleased song. No charting. No independent refs. No evidence of independent coverage. Google sees many cut-and-pastes of press releases but no actual coverage. Possibly a case of WP:TOOSOON. Stuartyeates (talk) 20:27, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:01, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:01, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Change of previous opinion. Jun Kayama 19:26, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Incubate until at least after October 10. The article has quite some promise, and it's likely that it will chart. However, it appears to be a bit too soon at the moment, so for now at least, we should incubate it until the proper time to recreate it comes (when it's actually been released and reliable sources have come). Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:10, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The material is not released, so stating it is likely to do "X,Y,or Z" is WP:TOOSOON. I was a record promoter for Warner Brothers - Elektra/Asylum Records for years, and telling me that something is "likely to chart" is an absolute pile of bologna. Charting depends on many factors, one of the least of which is actual talent. The label will have to invest publicity, promotion, tour support, album design, marketing, etc, etc.. One of the biggest hurdles will be where the "release" falls on the promotion schedule/list, because if they aren't at the top of the push, they will be left to fend for themselves. So stating; "...it's likely that it will chart" is questionable at best, and probably not going to happen to anyone's satisfaction without some portion of luck and the equations of release timing placing the record without much similar competition, available new chart slots, sufficient label support, yadda, yadda, yadda. Predicting the success of any musical release is impractical at best (if it ever even happens...labels set new priorities all the time and pull releases frequently to pursue other projects at a whim). Suggesting anything about the success of this pending "release" is WAY WP:TOOSOON...if at all. In addition, the suggestion of a "probable chart" is pretty much a matter of promotion as well Яεñ99 (talk) 10:14, 19 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - For EN language source Karo Taro Greenfeld covered it in Speed Tribes, but Japan's domestic music industry is a Yakuza-run payola scheme distinct from the American model. I nod to the Delete vote on WP:TOOSOON knowing full well this article will only be resurrected on 10/10, but for this song, CM tie-ins for ｢じゅわいよ・くちゅーるマキ｣and singles placed on television programs (in this case ｢スッキリ!!｣ for NTV) ensure eventual charting on Oricon. Actual talent has very little to do with the success of idol groups in the Japanese market. I may personally loathe the article for being WP:PROMOTION but this song will chart because Oricon has demonstrated repeatedly that is what happens to singles with tie-ins in Japan. Jun Kayama 02:37, 20 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Dori ☾Talk ☯ Contribs☽ 21:20, 20 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - It's never too soon for any topic for which reliable sources are writing about. However, no reliable sources are writing about Dazzling Girl (Shinee) so the topic doesn't meet WP:GNG. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 04:16, 21 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I'm wondering if you have the capacity to access Japanese-language sources. [1] They were on Fuji TV yesterday morning with the song in question. [2] Jun Kayama 18:36, 21 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Publicity is only a part of the payola machine. Even assuming good faith, that we see them on TV simply suggests that the publicity department at the label is spending money/influence to push the release. Still WP:TOOSOON for it to pan out at this time. (Just as an example, The Rolling Stones "Play With Fire" from 1965, arguably a fantastic song for fans of the group and the era, failed to chart in the UK and only charted Top 96 in the US). Being popular, being good, being well-known means very little until the record gets released and makes it to market to climb the charts - and the label has a very great deal to do with that. The reason gold albums have to be certified sales now, not just shipped gold, is a problem stretching back to Cher's releases when Geffen would ship an album gold knowing full well that returns would be eaten to maintain the sales certification. Chart position is just as volatile; it absolutely cannot be said "for sure" - it has to be seen when the release occurs and the position happens. Can't put the cart before the ox here. Яεñ99 (talk) 09:29, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Then would incubation be the solution in this case? If it never charts, then it can always be deleted anyway. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:38, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In this case, an Encyclopedia should not be about "if's" and "maybe's." You incubate an egg, but that doesn't mean it will hatch into anything useful. When it is released and charts, then you will have opportunity to relish it's success. Again, there should be no rush to "push" to measure the success of something that may not evolve. It's just a matter of speculation at this point, yet another WP we try to avoid :) "All you need is just a little patience...mmm, yeah-eh-eh." Chart position is like an orgasm, you aren't guaranteed to have one! Яεñ99 (talk) 10:47, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - The song in question is already on rotation in television commercials and is the theme song for this show [3] so this isn't purely an Oricon charting issue - it's already in the eye of the Japanese public. Rather than go round in pointless circles on this and segue into how much different the Japanese idol machine is from anything in the West, I've changed my earlier vote to Delete. The article can be recreated when it meets WP:GNG without question. Jun Kayama 19:26, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Korea-related deletion discussions. Michaela den (talk) 02:25, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.