Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Liverpool F.C. 9–0 AFC Bournemouth

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. More editors supported keeping than deleting/redirecting, but the arguments themselves do not amount to a consensus. Perhaps the passing of time will make the issue clearer. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 03:40, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Liverpool F.C. 9–0 AFC Bournemouth

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Not notable in the big picture. This match would be perfectly fine at List of highest-scoring Premier League matches. Also, no content apart from basic statistics. There probably are notable matches that merit separate articles, but those should be reserved for championship finals and such. Tone 15:31, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Not remotely notable. It's not a record score, nothing spectacular about the match in other respects, and to be honest once a match is clearly a rout, 9-0 is not much more surprising than 5-0. A closely fought 4-3 is much more interesting and momentous than this. We should probably consider deleting other prior 9-0 matches on the same grounds. — Amakuru (talk) 15:37, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:ROUTINE. To prove my point; on the same day Celtic beat Dundee United 9-0 away (Match report from The Guardian) and Montpellier HSC beat Stade Brestois 7-0 away (L'Équipe report), whereas Union Berlin beat Schalke 04 6-1 away the day before (Kicker report). Abcmaxx (talk) 15:51, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Also WP:NOTSTATS may apply here. Abcmaxx (talk) 15:59, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The results you have mentioned are in leagues, which are much less competitive than the Premier League, hence why this is only the fourth time it has occurred in the Premier League since its inception in 1992. Saltysers (talk) 17:17, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Football and England. Shellwood (talk) 16:22, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Do not delete. This result is notable, a it is only the fourth occasion that this has happened in the 30 year history of the Premier League, and all previous occasions also have their own articles. Manchester United F.C. 9–0 Ipswich Town F.C., Manchester United F.C. 9–0 Southampton F.C., and Southampton F.C. 0–9 Leicester City F.C. respectively. Makes no sense to not include this result as well. Saltysers (talk) 16:44, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To further consider my point, this is Liverpool's record win and Bournemouth's record defeat in Premier League football, as well as being a match where two Liverpool players reached milestones. (Van Dijk 200th PL appearance, Henderson 400th appearance). Finally, this was the first Liverpool match in wake of the tragic murder of 9 year-old Olivia Pratt-Korbel; where Liverpool paid tribute to the girl who was a resident of the city. Saltysers (talk) 16:47, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Any subsequent conversation should take place on the Talk section of the article Saltysers (talk) 17:08, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but whereas you could possibly argue Scottish league is less competitive because its dominated by 2 teams or that they are from a smaller nation, that is certainly not true for Germany or France. Besides even the Scottish second tier is fully professional. The Premier League is not superior to argue it is is WP:BIAS, besides you miss the point that high scores in top leagues is nothing new or rare. We are not a Liverpool FC fan-page, per WP:TRIVIA. By any standards Celtic have a huge fanbase and Dundee Utd. have a much bigger European pedigree than Bournemouth (who have none actually). It's all subjective. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:00, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I would like to add that in your words: "it is only the fourth occasion" How arbitrary is this? Where's the cut-off point? Fifth, sixth, fourteenth? If a team wins by the same scoreline next week, does that match deserve a page? MattSucci (talk) 18:11, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In the Premier League, a 9-0 is a rarity. 4 out of 11,500+ matches have ended with that scoreline. Given the demands of the league and its level of competitiveness in comparison to other top divisions around the world, these are more notable than say PSG of France winning 9-0 against a newly promoted team of their division. 2.30.67.159 (talk) 10:37, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please explain how PSG, current champions, beating a newly promoted team is less notable than Liverpool, a vice-champion, beating Bournemouth, a newly promoted team. Also Man City own 4 of the last 5 championships, and its the same 4-5 clubs routinely in the top 4-5 spots in the league pretty much since 1997. How is that more competitive than other nations? Abcmaxx (talk) 16:36, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In response to when the cut-off is, I would say when the record is broken (10-0 win in prem) 2.30.67.159 (talk) 10:57, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. As per Abcmaxx's argument, WP:ROUTINE applies here and the match is simply an interesting but unnotable occasion of a high score. The page is now being padded out in an attempt to make it appear more noteworthy than it is. Also, Amakuru makes a valid point that the other 9-0 pages probably deserve to be deleted too. I argue that the first 9-0 win is the only match that deserves its own page, MattSucci (talk) 17:22, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The match is notable as it equalled the record win in the Premier League. As the three other matches were this happened have an entry, this one should too. It's either that or they all go up for deletion in my view as they're all as notable as each other. NapHit (talk) 18:07, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is it worth pointing out that you are a self-confessed LFC fan? Usually such things seem more notable if you support the club in question. Abcmaxx (talk) 19:06, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am in no way a Liverpool fan like NapHit, however as a footballing fan I believe it carries significant importance and as a result should remain. His point stands. 2.30.67.159 (talk) 10:34, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am a Liverpool fan, but I have also nominated previous Liverpool matches that have been created if I don't believe they are notable. 4–0 against Barca and the 1984 semi-final against Dinamo Bucharest are cases in point. It's notable because it's the record win in the Premier League, along with three other matches which each have pages. If those ones have pages then it only stands to reason this one should have. NapHit (talk) 11:05, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd argue a match that sets a particular record is more notable than one that matches it. The first 9-0 stood unmatched for 24 years and the Southampton-Leicester result could make a case for staying as the record away win. With each subsequent match of that scoreline, the justification for its own page decreases. If and when we get the first 10-0 Premier League result, all four pages will be redundant. Apocnowt (talk) 14:21, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete For me, I can see the argument from both sides. However, I think this should be deleted because, as stated by MattSucci, it’s more of an interesting scoreline than anything else. The problem is that we have let these other 9–0 pages pass, but when do we stop the trend. The first 9–0 was notable with Manchester United and Ipswich for being the first in the Premier League era, and an argument can be made for Leicester’s away victory against Southampton seeing as it was the biggest away win. However, I don’t think any of the 9–0’s since should have their own pages. Also, on a separate note, I think it is too soon to judge what impact this result has going forward so if it is decided to be kept, I think draftify should be an option put forward. Fats40boy11 (talk) 19:23, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. S.A. Julio (talk) 19:24, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete no evidence that there is enduring notability beyond routine coverage of a high scoring game. Spike 'em (talk) 21:01, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep - It is the joint biggest win in the history of the most famous soccer league in the world. It may not have set the record, but it is a record nonetheless. To be honest, I think we need to stop demanding that matches be record-setters and actually deal with matches on their own merits based on coverage. I know it's crystal-balling to assume that the coverage will come for this game, but the magnitude of the result makes that almost guaranteed. – Pee Jay 21:41, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:ROUTINE and WP:ENDURING. Long-term significance is highly improbable. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:52, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Every other 9-0 Premier League result has its own article, so long as this one is well-written I don’t remotely see how it should be deleted. The Kip (talk) 04:28, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the three articles in question, 1 easily sails through the GNG, having retrospectives about it produced decades later. The other two have issues. I haven't looked at their sourcing in depth enough to be definitive about it (and I don't want to even try to embark on the before required to bring them to a deletion discussion), but both are mostly sourced to articles from within days of when they happened, which implies they will have problems passing a notability test. Rockphed (talk) 21:47, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. While I agree with The Kip – the other 9-0 results had their own articles and a 9-0 win in the Premier League is rare – I also understand Ad Orientem's point, as this match may have little importance once the season is over. If this event is really not significant enough to have its own article, I would suggest to redirect it to the 2022–23 Premier League page instead. Vida0007 (talk) 05:28, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Update: In case the consensus would be "delete", it should be redirected to List of highest-scoring Premier League matches#Biggest winning margin instead. Vida0007 (talk) 14:04, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for now until the record is surpassed. The same goes for the three other 9-0 matches. However, if this gets merged anyway, I would still stand by my proposal that it would be merged with the List of highest-scoring Premier League matches article. Vida0007 (talk) 17:21, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This match equalled the record win in the Premier League. As the three other 9-0 matches have an entry, this one should too. If this is deleted then the others need to goa also. Fernandosmission (talk) 07:11, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
They may get deleted if someone nominates them on the notability basis, so this is not convincing argument. For example, think of a match that ends 10-0, then these are nothing special anymore, even in statistical terms. Tone 08:00, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Not only is this a rare occasion in the Premier League (the fourth occasion out of 11,686 Premier League matches 2.30.67.159 (talk) 10:19, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It is synonymous with a tragedy which took place in Liverpool in the corresponding week, in which the football club continues to support the investigation of Olivia Pratt-Korbel's death. While the 9-0 is rare and alone should be the reason the article remains, it is a time signature from the footballing world of when something directly affected the city and the club.

Going forwards, if these results were to occur more frequently (10+ times), then perhaps at that point a new article named "9-0 wins in the Premier League" could be created.

Other characteristics of the notability from a footballing perspective include: Milestone appearances for two of Liverpool's players, Milestone goal tally for one of Liverpool's players, Bournemouth's biggest ever top flight defeat, Harvey Elliott's first PL goal, Liverpool's biggest ever victory.

An event is considered "rare" or "unusual" if its probability is 0.05 or less.reference. This was the 4th out of 11,686 matches. 0.03% of PL matches have ended 9-0, which is less than the definition of a rarity, therefore this result should be classed as notable in its own right, without the extenuating factors and events surrounding the fixture. 2.30.67.159 (talk) 10:32, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

But we have no articles for games ending 6-4, 9-1, 7-3 or 5-5 and these have all just happened once. Rarity does not necessarily make something notable. Spike 'em (talk) 08:46, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - it's a tough call because this was a noteworthy game, especially given the sacking of the Bournemouth manager as an outcome. That said, it is one game in the course of a season, and one game in the lifetime of both clubs. There's a place for extreme outcomes, and it's on each club's page. There's a place for extreme outcomes in a season, and it's the page about the season.

Fooman6817 (talk) 14:53, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

— 2.30.67.159 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Keep per PeeJay. Giant Snowman 10:20, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Content issue has since been addressed. 2.30.67.159 (talk) 10:39, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep obviously notable football match. —Jonny Nixon (talk) 11:20, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per PeeJay. Idiosincrático (talk) 11:50, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per all above. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 13:14, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Currently fails WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. It might be notable in the future but not now. The regurgitation of Sky's propaganda ("much less competitive than the Premier League") is sickening as are the attempts to make this game notable by using a nine year old girl's death. Dougal18 (talk) 13:48, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per PeeJay and Jonny Nixon. GWA88 (talk) 14:11, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per all above. Rare and notable as the other 9–0 results. MSN12102001 (talk) 16:12, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment So if this gets kept there will be no objections to creating a Dundee United F.C. 0–9 Celtic F.C. article then I take it? Abcmaxx (talk) 16:50, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And San Marino 0–10 England while we're at it. This is utterly absurd and depressing. The match is self-evidently less relevant to anything than so many other matches, the above "keeps" are just an WP:ILIKEIT obsession with the notion that all 9–0s have to be individually catalogued. If someone later does a 10–0, will we delete them all because they're no longer joint record holders? — Amakuru (talk) 17:17, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That San Marino game was much more likely to happen because you had a team of part-time players playing against some of the best in the world. In contrast, both Liverpool and Bournemouth are fully professional teams with internationals in their lineup plus this being a Premier League game makes it a lot more unexpected, despite Liverpool being much better on paper. Same applies with the Dundee United v Celtic match, especially when you consider it was the away team that won 9-0, which is much rarer in elite football 86.25.138.179 (talk) 23:13, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nice whataboutism. What makes this unique versus the Scottish result is the level of competition; the Premier League is is almost universally considered one of a handful of top-flight football leagues, to the point where WP:ITNR only regularly posts the league champions of them, the Bundesliga, and La Liga. It’s a special occurrence versus that of a lower league such as the SPL or MLS. The Kip (talk) 02:23, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

and there it is: WP:BIAS. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:19, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Call it bias all you want, but it’s the same reason we don’t post the champions of the European League of Football, Mexican League, or Canadian Elite Basketball League. It’s just simply a lower level of competition. The Kip (talk) 15:38, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Uh...no. Two of those (Mexico and Canada) do not get posted because they're national leagues that do not receive international attention. The ELF is too new; there is not enough precedent, if any. —VersaceSpace 🌃 22:37, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

“National league that does not receive international attention” likewise describes most soccer/football leagues outside of the Big 4 (one of whom, Serie A of Italy, isn’t posted anyways), which would as a result exclude the Scottish Premiership. Thanks for proving my point. The Kip (talk) 16:01, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Attention in the media has absolutely nothing to do with the "level of competition", and I cannot imagine how you came to that conclusion. —VersaceSpace 🌃 00:14, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To further back my point, UEFA’s 2021-22 league coefficients, which rank the different associations within UEFA, had Scotland at 11th, behind countries such as Serbia, Greece, and Austria. The Kip (talk) 15:47, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To illustrate a point in the 2014–15 La Liga the following scores occurred:

Biggest home win Real Madrid 9–1 Granada (5 April 2015)

Biggest away win Córdoba 0–8 Barcelona (2 May 2015)

Highest scoring Deportivo La Coruña 2–8 Real Madrid (20 September 2014)

Real Madrid 9–1 Granada (5 April 2015)

Real Madrid 7–3 Getafe (23 May 2015)

None of them have an article; why? That's just one season picked at random. In fact none of the La Liga records have match articles. And you cannot argue supremacy of Premier League over La Liga surely? Abcmaxx (talk) 22:29, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and there is no Tasmania Berlin 0–9 MSV Duisburg article about the match that happened in 1966. Abcmaxx (talk) 22:37, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep We already made articles for the other 9–0 Premier League matches. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 20:38, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with 2022–23 Liverpool F.C. season which would seem the sensible thing to do. Clearly it's a notable match and worthy of mention, but not notable enough for a standaline article. This is Paul (talk) 21:47, 29 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep — Everytime one of these happen people get needlessly mad at the article but it's clearly notable. Just because a few people don't feel like it should be notable doesn't make it non-notable. There's just no need for this rigmarole every two years or so. Watercheetah99 (talk) 03:20, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: A single soccer match is unlikely to have long-lasting notability, and this is entirely WP:TRIVIA to anybody who doesn't watch soccer (or even Liverpool). And this being a "record for Liverpool" is a woefully unconvincing reason to keep this. "Only the fourth time" will bring a chuckle to the faces of the uninvolved, if this is kept. —VersaceSpace 🌃 14:25, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: the Liverpool/Bournemouth match is equal in notability to the two more recent matches involving Southampton. The Man Utd/Ipswich match has a reasonable claim to long-lasting notability, as for over 25 years it was a unique feat in the Premier League, and so that article should likely be kept. However, the fact that there have been 9-0 scorelines in the Premier League three times in under two years indicates that such occurences, while still unusual, are becoming more widespread and are less notable. Whether that level of notability meets WP:GNG or not is not clear to me, but if this article is deleted, then the Man Utd/Southampton and Leicester/Southampton ones should be as well. There may be an argument to add those two to this deletion discussion. --RFBailey (talk) 22:06, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looking at the other articles on 9-0 wins in the premier league, the one from the 90s can show its notability because it has in depth, reliable sources from decades afterward. I do not find credible the keep position that the 4th time such an event happened (and 2nd or 3rd time this year) will be able to generate press 2 weeks in the future, much less 2 years. Everything about the reporting on this game is WP:ROUTINE. Rockphed (talk) 21:39, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would say the fact that Bournemouth's manager was sacked three days after the match partly as a result to comments he made in broadcast interviews is something especially noteworthy in regards to it's aftermath 86.25.138.179 (talk) 23:08, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Also the same happened with Dundee United's manager after they lost 9-0 to Celtic, albeit that decision was made due to poor on-pitch performances and results instead of any apparent disagreements with the board 86.25.138.179 (talk) 23:15, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of highest-scoring Premier League matches#Biggest winning margin. 9-goal wins happen from time-to-time even in top-flight leagues, so the game is not unique for having that margin of victory. If we look at record margins-of-victory across other sports (see Blowout (sports) for examples), almost none of them have individual articles for these specific games (the only games that have articles are a 222-0 American college football which is an extreme and famous storyline, and a 73-0 NFL American football game which happened to be the 1940 NFL Championship game and was notable only for that reason). I believe the three other 9-0 games should be redirected as well (with Manchester United-Ipswich as a possible exception), but that is not the scope of this discussion. Frank Anchor 15:50, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Seems like an important and significant match. Moondragon21 (talk 17:03, 1 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Both of Southampton's 9-0 defeats have articles. Why shouldn't this? If this is deleted, those should be too. ArsenalGhanaPartey (talk) 14:47, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OTHER applies here. Their existence is not evidence either for or against deleting this article. I think the sources they use do not show that this game will get the long term coverage that the game from the 90's got, but I am open to somebody proving me wrong. Rockphed (talk) 18:28, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Its not and absurd to say otherwise in the grand scheme of things. Fails WP:SIGCOV. scope_creep^Talk 11:18, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with 2022–23 Liverpool F.C. season. These scores have become commonplace and do not deserve an entire article.--Sakiv (talk) 13:58, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The match is notable. Phikia (talk) 03:09, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete As per scope_creep. MrsSnoozyTurtle 06:10, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep As per Phikia17:11, 4 September 2022 (UTC)~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnWalker31 (talk • contribs)
Keep Other 9-0 premier league wins have articles, and the article is well written and sourced. There is clearly enough information in the article to make it worth keeping. Drinkdrinker (talk) 19:00, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.