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Nam Suat

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Nam Suat (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Unnotable watercourse in Thailand. It has no sources for 8 years. I could not find anything about it on the Internet. SolxrgashiUnited (talk) 15:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Found this announcement [2] --Lerdsuwa (talk) 05:09, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. A search for "น้ำสวด" "แม่น้ำยม", the Thai forms of "Nam Suat" "Yom River", shows plenty of sources. It is a sizeable stream, flows through an important teak forest, floods badly, is threatened by a dam and so on. Aymatth2 (talk) 14:58, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • For results that are actually about the river, I'm only seeing data points form hydrological databases, and a single Facebook post. Nothing that could be considered in-depth. Everything else is about the forest named after the river, but not the river itself. --Paul_012 (talk) 06:31, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Aymatth2; a river of this size is going to pass WP:NGEO. Dclemens1971 (talk) 15:14, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect back to Yom River, and remove the circular link, which was probably why the article was created in the first place. There are simply no sources to base an article on. If there are only mentions of the name in regard to the forest, that might be the better topic to cover, but there's already a more suitable place for that, in the national park articles. --Paul_012 (talk) 06:34, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We are handicapped by not understanding the Thai language. The search for "น้ำสวด" "แม่น้ำยม" gives sources that use those exact forms of the river and parent names. It may well miss other sources that discuss the river in more depth. Some sources mention a proposed dam and a later proposal for two smaller dams, both presumably affecting the river. The teak forest covers the river's watershed, and is special. The fact that there is a hydrological station on the river indicates some importance. The flow of 5.28 cubic metres per second (186 cu ft/s) at Ban Wang Yao is rather more than that of the River Lea at Feildes Weir, Hoddesdon. It is reasonable to assume that other sources must exist for a river of this size. Aymatth2 (talk) 17:20, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am a native Thai speaker, as indicated on my user page. I'm not seeing any in-depth coverage about the river at all. The reports about the dam that I'm seeing only say that its location will be in "Pa Nam Yao and Pa Nam Suat Reserved Forest", while the watercourse being dammed is Nam Ki, a different stream/river. That sources should exist might be a reasonable assumption, but if actual efforts to identify them aren't turning up anything usable, then the assumption is proven invalid. If you're seeing results that you think should be usable, Why don't you share specific links so that I can help take a look? --Paul_012 (talk) 07:44, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Searching is quite difficult because the results are heavily polluted by the word สวด in the meaning of chant/prayer. However, it does appear that the river is also commonly refferred to as "ลำน้ำสวด" and "ลำน้ำห้วยสวด", which reveal hits such as a brief mention, among other rivers, of flooding in this 2014 news report[3], and mentions here and there among local government websites saying that the river flows through their village[4]. There is one result that's likely in-depth, a research paper presented at Valaya Alongkorn Rajabhat University's annual conference in 2018 titled ปัญหาการพังทลายของตลิ่งลำน้ำสวดและแนวทางการป้องกันอย่างยั่งยืน (The problem of bank erosion of Lam Nam Suat and methods for sustainable prevention)[5]. It's very likely to contain a description of the river, but the full text is not available online anywhere (the conference proceedings were hosted on Google Drive, and are all down). That's one potential source that might contribute to notability, but without anything that could be used to write something more than a completely uninformative substub (Where is the river? What is its course? What is its significance?), redirecting (without prejudice) would still seem to be best option for now. --Paul_012 (talk) 08:07, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Fair enough. Possibly [6] could be used to locate the river (coordinate PA 527815, wherever that is). If we could see it on a map that might suggest search terms. And [7] may give enough information to justify a stand-alone article, if we could see it. Geographical items do not need to meet the same rigorous criteria as people, and it seems that a river this size should be notable. But if we cannot find proof, a redirect is second best. I would prefer to redirect to a section in the parent, e,g, #redirect Yom River#Nam Suat, and give all available information in that section. I can take a shot at that based on the sources found so far. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 21:33, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • It's partially mapped on Openstreetmap as ลำน้ำสวด, but as a user-generated primary source we can't use it for much. It does show that it flows into the Nam Pi น้ำปี้, which agrees with the hydrographical diagram at [8]. I couldn't find anything relevant searching the two together, but while Nam Pi is also an unreferenced stub, it does have an entry in the Royal Society Gazetteer (which doesn't mention the Nam Suat though).[9] Maybe that should be the redirect target, as the next-order tributary. --Paul_012 (talk) 04:34, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    An article for Nam Pi + Nam Suat would be very short. I would be inclined to make sections in the Yom River article for each direct or indirect tributary, with perhaps one paragraph each - whatever shows up on a search. Of course, some of the tributaries might warrant stand alone articles, with a summary and {{main}} link in Yom River. Aymatth2 (talk) 14:07, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd agree with that. --Paul_012 (talk) 11:19, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to the major river or national park. It's actually sourced but the article is a TNT worthy mess. Bearian (talk) 18:59, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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