Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 August 11

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August 11

Category:New Democratic Party activists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete. Ruslik_Zero 18:20, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Propose renaming Category:New Democratic Party activists to Category:New Democratic Party of Canada activists

Nominator's rationale: Rename. Although the Canadian party is probably the primary usage in English, New Democratic Party can still be ambiguous. If renamed, this will match the parent Category:New Democratic Party of Canada. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:53, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - in checking about 25% of the articles more or less at random, these people don't seem like "activists" as much as just members. We don't appear to categorize Category:Political activists. Are You The Cow Of Pain? (talk) 22:30, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
  • Agreed. Perhaps it's been used as a way around not categorizing non-politicians by political party. Deletion and re-sorting as politicians (if any are) may be an option here. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 08:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
• Delete and resort per above. Beagel (talk) 07:40, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
• Upmerge/Merge/Delete per the above. - jc37 21:13, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
• Comment. As nominator, I would be willing to do any clean up that this close might require, if the closing admin could just leave a note on my talk page. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 09:36, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

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Ithomiinae

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: C1 delete. Courcelles 05:44, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

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Propose deleting Category:Ithomiinae. According to the wikipedia article, this subfamily is more often considered a tribe of subfamily Danainae. Articles were moved to new Category:Ithomiini. Dawynn (talk) 15:41, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

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Awards and trophies

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: rename all. Courcelles 05:39, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

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Propose renaming Category:Baseball awards and trophies to Category:Baseball trophies and awards

Propose renaming Category:High school football awards and trophies in the United States to Category:High school football trophies and awards in the United States

Propose renaming Category:Lacrosse awards and trophies to Category:Lacrosse trophies and awards

Propose renaming Category:Major League Baseball awards and trophies to Category:Major League Baseball trophies and awards

Propose renaming Category:Major League Baseball team awards and trophies to Category:Major League Baseball team trophies and awards

Propose renaming Category:National Football League awards and trophies to Category:National Football League trophies and awards

Propose renaming Category:Nippon Professional Baseball awards and trophies to Category:Nippon Professional Baseball trophies and awards

Propose renaming Category:World Series awards and trophies to Category:World Series trophies and awards

Nominator's rationale: Rename. There are over 40 "trophies and awards" categories including the parent Category:Sports trophies and awards, but only 11 "awards and trophies" categories. Three are in the "More college sports" nomination below, and the rest are here.--Mike Selinker (talk) 15:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

• rename all for consistency Mayumashu (talk) 21:39, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
• Rename all; no good reason to have some categories one way and some another. Nyttend (talk) 19:58, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

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More college sports

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: rename all. Courcelles 05:38, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

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Nominator's rationale: Rename. Per previous nominations adding "in the United States" such as this one and this one. These are all categories which, as far as I can tell, only involve articles about American subjects. There's no prejudice in this nomination against recreating the broader categories if articles covering non-US subjects are found. (See above nomination for rationale for switching "awards and trophies" to "trophies and awards".)--Mike Selinker (talk) 14:53, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

• Rename as per nom. Mayumashu (talk) 21:38, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

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Category:Vietnam War photos

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: merge both to Category:Vietnam War photographs. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 09:33, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Propose merging Category:Vietnam War photos to Category:Photographs of the Vietnam War

Nominator's rationale: Merge. Two categories named almost identically. Mormegil (talk) 09:37, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

• Merge. These are clear duplicates, but I'm not sure about the direction. While the proposal seems to be in alignment with the parent category photographs by war, most by-war categories actually seem to use the "X war Y's" format. See books by war, speeches by war, films by war, and most relevantly Vietnam War by medium. Therefore I'd prefer merging both to Vietnam War photographs. (Considering that the main category is photographs, not photos.) Jafeluv (talk) 15:13, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
• Merge and rename category:Vietnam War photographs. Beagel (talk) 07:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
• Merge and rename category:Vietnam War photographs. Seems fairly straightforward. - jc37 21:13, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

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Provinces of Belarus

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: keep all. — ξ^xplicit 05:54, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Propose renaming

• Category:Provinces of Belarus to Category:Regions of Belarus
• Category:Brest Voblast to Category:Brest Region
• Category:Homiel Voblast to Category:Gomel Region
• Category:Hrodna Voblast to Category:Grodno Region
• Category:Mahilyow Voblast to Category:Mogilev Region
• Category:Minsk Voblast to Category:Minsk Region
• Category:Vitsebsk Voblast to Category:Vitebsk Region
• Category:People by voblast in Belarus to Category:People by region in Belarus
• Category:People from Brest Voblast to Category:People from Brest Region
• Category:People from Homiel Voblast to Category:People from Gomel Region
• Category:People from Hrodna Voblast to Category:People from Grodno Region
• Category:People from Mahilyow Voblast to Category:People from Mogilev Region
• Category:People from Minsk Voblast to Category:People from Minsk Region
• Category:People from Vitsebsk Voblast to Category:People from Vitebsk Region
• Category:Districts of Brest Voblast to Category:Districts of Brest Region
• Category:Districts of Homiel Voblast to Category:Districts of Gomel Region
• Category:Districts of Hrodna Voblast to Category:Districts of Grodno Region
• Category:Districts of Mahilyow Voblast to Category:Districts of Mogilev Region
• Category:Districts of Minsk Voblast to Category:Districts of Minsk Region
• Category:Districts of Vitsebsk Voblast to Category:Districts of Vitebsk Region

Nominator's rationale: To match main articles; see Regions of Belarus. Jafeluv (talk) 08:49, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

• Support – this is in line with the article moves agreed in Talk:Regions_of_Belarus#Requested_move. Occuli (talk) 13:43, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
• Question - Is there consensus, really? Replacing Voblasts with Regions is one thing, replacing Belorussian-language toponyms with Russian counterparts is controversial (to say the least). East of Borschov 06:54, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
• Comment. Right now, Russian-language and Belarussian-language articles and categories are unevenly mixed up, apparently Belarussian language is more common but the most visible articles, i.e. Mogilev (see its talk page) are spelled from Russian. Renaming, if approved, must uniformly extend downstream, i.e.

• Category:People from Mahilyow Voblast and parent Category:People by voblast in Belarus (-> by region)

• Category:People from Babruysk and Babruysk ( -> Bobruisk)
• Category:People from Krychaw and Krychaw (-> Krichev)
• Category:People from Shkloŭ and Shkloŭ (-> Shklov), etc. etc.

it's one big can of trouble. East of Borschov 06:54, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose, 1) the names should remain basing on Belarusian language, i.e. if changing voblast to region it should be Hrodna region, not Jrodno. 2) Voblast is the name for Belarusian provinces. It is a loanword from Russian and is not translated into Belarusian --Czalex 18:47, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
• Comment: If someone wants to question the consensus for the article moves, the correct place to do that is on the article's talk page. In my opinion, there's no reason to name the categories differently from what is decided for the articles. We can put this CfD on hold to discuss the article moves further. Jafeluv (talk) 23:47, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Good idea, although wholesale, massive renames are more appropriate for wikiproject boards. Meanwhile, the contents of the renamed articles need to be adjusted to their new names (Mogilev Region etc.). East of Borschov 05:15, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

• Keep with Belarussian names. No view on whether they should be voblast or region. Peterkingiron (talk) 22:35, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose - Based upon the above discussion, it would seem that, for this to get any traction, it would likely need to be renommed in separate noms for each main issue. (This appears to be a good example of when a group nom isn't as helpful in determining consensus.) - jc37 21:13, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose. Probably needs centralized discussion about naming administrative units of non-English language countries. E.g., we have system of categories about administrative units in Russia using 'oblast' in their name. It is pointless to rename Belorussian 'voblast' but at the same time to keep Russian 'oblast'. Beagel (talk) 13:53, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose - Other than a language dispute I see no reason why this should be changed. Is the word Voblast a common-name? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 05:57, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

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Category:Units of magnetic induction

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: no consensus.--Mike Selinker (talk) 17:22, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Category:Units of magnetic induction (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: There's only one entry listed, and probably could never have more than a few. If this info is really relevant, it could be listed on Magnetic induction –Schmloof (talk · contribs) 06:59, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

• Comment: Compare Category:Units of length or Category:Units of measure. It may be worth keeping just to have a regular taxonomy in the categories, e.g. "Units of physical property". LeadSongDog come howl! 17:12, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
• Comment - I just took a quick spin thru Category:Units of measure and found that there are three other 1-article categories. In addition, there are five 2-article categories. So whatever we decide here has clear implications for those other categories. Cgingold (talk) 01:26, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
• Comment A look through these categories shows that most of the multiplicity is brought about by the urge of some official or another to give the CGS unit a separate name from the MKS metric unit rather than applying order of magnitude prefixes. Conversely, the hierarchy is very flat; for instance, there are a lot of electromagnetic unit categories but not an overall category for all the various electromagnetic quantities. I think it might make the most sense to upmerge all these small categories for now and then work out a better categorization by more general topic. Mangoe (talk) 14:51, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
• Comment. There is an error here. H-field is never called magnetic induction. So, Oersted should be categorized under Category:Units of magnetic field, but not Category:Units of magnetic induction. The real units for the magnetic induction are Tesla and Gauss, which are currently and erroneously categorized as Category:Units of magnetic induction. The best solution is to rename Category:Units of magnetic field to Category:Units of B-field, and Category:Units of magnetic induction to Category:Units of H-field. Ruslik_Zero 18:47, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
• Push for no consensus Based on what I see for comments, this category should be discussed upon first elsewhere and not deleted. A deletion can always be had at a later date if this category proves not useful in it's current name or form. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 06:01, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

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Category:Album types

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Keep and clean up. Ruslik_Zero 18:28, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Category:Album types (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: This is an arbitrary mish-mash of ways of categorizing albums: some of them by content (Category:Remix albums, Category:Concept albums, or Category:Cast recordings), format (Category:Triple albums, Category:Video albums), or relationship to other media (Category:Soundtracks). These should be upmerged to Category:Albums. Also, the intro claims that "This category includes album types as used by the Type= parameter of the {{Infobox album}} template," but several of these "types" (Category:Double albums or Category:Concept albums, for instance) are not types for that field. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:49, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Can rename to Category:Albums by type to more appropriately fit into the scheme of Category:Categories by type; redefine the category then upmerge only those that still shouldn't belong in the category. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 06:10, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 06:30, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

• Comment – Category:Album types should be a list category with no subcats, containing (as it does, at the top level) articles about album types (and no articles about individual albums). Category:Albums by type should contain most of the subcats presently in Category:Album types. The clue is in the singular 'album'. (Category:Album types should not be a subcat of Category:Albums.) Occuli (talk) 14:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

  Any chance of convincing you to do a sofoxit? : ) - jc37 21:13, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose and Clean up per Occuli above. - jc37 21:13, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

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Category:Nigerien National Assembly members

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: rename. Courcelles 05:45, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

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Propose renaming Category:Nigerien National Assembly members to Category:Members of the National Assembly of Niger

Nominator's rationale: Rename. Propose renaming to match the format of National Assembly of Niger, parent category Category:National Assembly of Niger, and subcategory Category:Presidents of the National Assembly of Niger. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:12, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

• Support while Nigerien is no dount correct, it is too similar to Nigerian to be desirable for use in WP. Peterkingiron (talk) 22:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

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Category:Open source games

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Do what Mike suggests. Courcelles 05:47, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

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Propose renaming Category:Open source games to Category:Open source tabletop games

Nominator's rationale: This category should rename to disambiguate from video games. Also video game sub-category should be re-parentised. Miami33139 (talk) 18:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Courcelles 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

 Administrator note Usually I'd just close no-feedback noms and do the rename, but I get the feeling this could use another set of eyes. Courcelles 03:04, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

• Comment. I'll give it that other set of eyes, though it's a biased set (I helped design at least three of these games). What I would probably do is move all the contents other than the subcategory into Category:Open source tabletop games and then put both that category and Category:Free, open source video games into the category Category:Open source games. (In addition, I think all the contents of Category:Free, open source video games should be moved to Category:Free video games and Category:Open source video games, since it is entirely possible to be one without the other. But that's an argument for another day.)--Mike Selinker (talk) 08:18, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
• Do what Mike Selinker suggests. The games in this category are all tabletop games, so should be in a specific category for that purpose, but Category:Open source games still seems useful to me as an umbrella category. Robofish (talk) 00:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

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Category:Members of the Senate of Northern Ireland 1933–1938

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: rename.--Mike Selinker (talk) 17:26, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Propose renaming Category:Members of the Senate of Northern Ireland 1933–1938 to Category:Members of the Senate of Northern Ireland 1933–1937

Category:Members of the Senate of Northern Ireland 1938–1945 to Category:Members of the Senate of Northern Ireland 1937–1945

Category:Members of the Senate of Northern Ireland 1953–1958 to Category:Members of the Senate of Northern Ireland 1953–1957

Category:Members of the Senate of Northern Ireland 1958–1962 to Category:Members of the Senate of Northern Ireland 1957–1962

Nominator's rationale: Rename. These categories were created on the assumption that Senate election were always held in the same year as elections to the lower house but, while this was usually true, Senate elections were held in 1937 and 1957, rather than 1938 and 1958. Warofdreams talk 00:46, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose based on the overwhelming number of reliable sources that place the election dates at 1938 and 1958. I find it hard to believe that everyone got it wrong. Are You The Cow Of Pain? (talk) 12:21, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

You are mistaken. Can you provide even one reliable source which states that the elections were 1938 and 1958? It's taken a considerable amount of time to find any reliable sources giving the years of the Senate elections, which are clearly stated in John F. Harbinson's The Ulster Unionist Party, 1882-1973. Remember, these are Senate elections we are talking about, not the ones to the Commons. Warofdreams talk 12:33, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Every source I reviewed puts the election dates at 1938 and 1958. It is incumbent upon you, as the party making the extraordinary claim, to provide reliable sources to support it. I would also note that depending on when the Senators were actually sworn into office, the dates 1938 and 1958 may be correct regardless (e.g. a US congressperson elected in 2008 doesn't actually become a congressperson until 2009). Are You The Cow Of Pain? (talk) 12:45, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

I've given you my source, which is perfectly ordinary and in no way extraordinary. Do you have any source which says otherwise? You say you've reviewed several; I'd love to know what they are, because I have looked into this pretty thoroughly and have not found one. We need to use reliable sources, not your guesswork, or anybody else's. Warofdreams talk 14:35, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

There is this which gives 37 for some and 38 for others. It does seem to favour 57 over 58. Occuli (talk) 14:43, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually, that's better evidence that I had previously realised. Although it appears not to distinguish between terms starting or ending at the periodic elections, and those starting or ending at a by-election, actually there is a note by everyone who died or resigned during their term of office. While that might have been during an election year, it does logically follow that any term ending without a death or resignation must be because they came to the end of their term and either did not restand, or were defeated for re-election. Using that information, 1937 and 1957 must be election years, and 1938 and 1958 were not. Warofdreams talk 15:08, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Incidentally, another source for the 1937 election date is "Unionists lose a seat" in the Irish Times of 22 June 1937. Unfortunately, they don't appear to have covered the election in 1957. Warofdreams talk 15:12, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

I've asked AYTCOP twice on their talk page to provide any of this evidence they claim, and they have simply blanked my request. I think we can safely conclude that it does not exist. Warofdreams talk 12:19, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

• Comment and question. The Senate of Northern Ireland is one of the more obscure legislatures in these islands, despite being more recent than some very short-lived bodies, and I commend those involved in trying to document it: even Walker, in his Parliamentary election results in Ireland 1918–1992 omits any mention of the body. However, that obscurity may impose limitations on what can be done.

It's a little unhelpful that the two editors discussing this above refer to the existence of evidence, but provide (AFAICS) only one link to it and no link to any of the previous discussions mentioned. Please folks, can you share your data and discussions with other the editors who may want to participate in thus CFD?

My question arises from the above. Given the scarcity of sources, is a system of categorisation-by-term actually viable for NI Senators? In general I'm a strong advocate of categorisation-by-term for parliamentarians, but in this case I have to question whether there is really enough data to support it. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)

Thanks for your comments. I'm not aware of any previous discussions; the categories were created by User:Mooretwin exactly one year ago. Part of the complication here is that there is very little on the Senate available online - the Northern Ireland Elections article which Occuli links above specifically notes this. But the body wasn't always so obscure; Harbinson gives a complete list of Unionist Senators (i.e. almost all the members of the House), with brief biographies, and devotes a section of the book to the operation of the Senate. As I say, he is very clear on the periodisation. The Irish Times covered the earlier elections, but not all the later ones (and the elections themselves were rather unexciting, re-electing almost all the members standing down, and with an electorate solely composed of the MPs). That's the sum total of the evidence I have, and I've noted it all above. It's not a vast amount, but is sufficient that I am entirely confident that elections were held in 1937 and 1957, and not in 1938 or 1958. It may well be that British newspapers also covered the elections, and I'm sure that the main papers in Northern Ireland would have more, should anyone have access to the articles. Warofdreams talk 21:09, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.