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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 July 18

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July 18

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Suburbs of Toowoomba smallcats

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Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 October 10#Suburbs of Toowoomba smallcats

Suburbs of Townsville smallcats

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Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 October 10#Suburbs of Townsville smallcats

Suburbs of the City of Blue Mountains smallcats

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Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 October 10#Suburbs of the City of Blue Mountains smallcats

Suburbs of the Central Coast smallcats

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Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 October 11#Suburbs of the Central Coast smallcats

Suburbs of Lake Macquarie smallcats

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Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 October 11#Suburbs of Lake Macquarie smallcats

Suburbs of Newcastle, New South Wales smallcats

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Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 October 11#Suburbs of Newcastle, New South Wales smallcats

Suburbs of Wollongong smallcats

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Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 October 17#Suburbs of Wollongong smallcats

Suburbs of Singleton Council smallcats

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Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 October 17#Suburbs of Singleton Council smallcats

Suburbs of Upper Hunter Shire smallcats

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Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 October 17#Suburbs of Upper Hunter Shire smallcats

Suburbs of Port Stephens Council smallcats

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Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 October 17#Suburbs of Port Stephens Council smallcats

Towns in Western Australia smallcats

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 17:14, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Propose deleting:
2-page categories
  1. Category:Caiguna, Western Australia
  2. Category:Cunderdin, Western Australia
  3. Category:Merredin, Western Australia
  4. Category:Wundowie, Western Australia
3-page categories
  1. Category:Cue, Western Australia
  2. Category:Nannup, Western Australia
Nominator's rationale: per WP:SMALLCAT. Each of these 6 subcats of Category:Towns in Western Australia is tiny, and likely to have little chance of expansion. They each currently contain only the head article plus one or two other pages.
In each case, I have checked that all the articles are already adequately categorised,so no need to merge.
I haven't checked for the availability of other articles to expand the categories; there are too many of these Australian smallcats to check. However, I make the nomination without prejudice to re-creating any of them which can be legitimately populated with more than five pages.
As with many locations in Quensland and New South Wales, the creation of geographical subcats in Western Australia has been indiscriminate. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:09, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Suburbs of Perth, Western Australia smallcats

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: No consensus Timrollpickering (talk) 17:39, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Propose manually merging:
2-page categories
  1. Category:Hazelmere, Western Australia to Category:Perth, Western Australia
  2. Category:North Beach, Western Australia to Category:Perth, Western Australia
  3. Category:East Victoria Park, Western Australia to Category:Town of Victoria Park
  4. Category:Malaga, Western Australia to Category:City of Swan
  5. Category:Redcliffe, Western Australia to Category:City of Belmont
3-page categories
  1. Category:Bickley, Western Australia to Category:City of Kalamunda
  2. Category:Ellenbrook, Western Australia to Category:Perth, Western Australia
  3. Category:Kenwick, Western Australia to Category:Perth, Western Australia
  4. Category:Peron, Western Australia to Category:City of Rockingham
  5. Category:Port Kennedy, Western Australia to Category:City of Rockingham
  6. Category:South Fremantle, Western Australia to Category:City of Fremantle
  7. Category:Woodbridge, Western Australia to Category:Perth, Western Australia
  8. Category:Yanchep to Category:City of Wanneroo
  9. Category:Neerabup, Western Australia to Category:City of Wanneroo
Nominator's rationale: per WP:SMALLCAT. Each of these 14 subcats of Category:Suburbs of Perth, Western Australia is tiny, and likely to have little chance of expansion. They each currently contain only the head article plus one or two other pages.
In each case, the head article is already in a "Suburbs of Foo" category (so no need to merge), but the other pages should be manually merged to the parent local govt area. In some cases, that's Perth itself; in other cases it's sub-division of Perth.
I haven't checked for the availability of other articles to expand the categories; there are too many of these Australian smallcats to check. However, I make the nomination without prejudice to re-creating any of them which can be legitimately populated with more than five pages.
As with many New South Wales & Queensland locations, the creation of geographical subcats of Perth has been indiscriminate. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:39, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose While these are indeed small categories I don't believe that they collectively are "Small with no potential for growth". The fact that articles on notable subjects falling within these categories have not been written does not mean they never will. Has the nominator investigated each one thoroughly to establish that they "will never have more than a few members"? The same really goes for all WA suburb categories, but even more so for the Perth ones. Calistemon (talk) 13:08, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Calistemon, if we took that that approach, then hardly any small category could ever be deleted ... and we'd have squillions of pointless smallcats to impede navigation.
      In this case, the categories are doomed to remain small unless there is some massive upsurge in documenting every last detail of every small suburb. In the unlikely event of such huge expansion, re-creating a few categories would be a trivial exercise ... but meanwhile, we shouldn't be keeping pointless categories in the hope of a meteoritre strike. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:22, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • @BrownHairedGirl I don't consider them pointless but, rather, more precise. Category:Perth, Western Australia, for example, is rather vague, compare to putting an article into the correct suburb category. I came around to this point of view after Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 February 17#Category:Kwinana, Western Australia. To highlight an example of a category I created, the WWII Peron Battery is within what is now Peron, Western Australia. To throw it into Category:City of Rockingham is potentially historically inaccurate as the City of Rockingham only came into existence many decades after the war. Calistemon (talk) 13:34, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • @Calistemon, see WP:CAT:

          The central goal of the category system is to provide navigational links to Wikipedia pages in a hierarchy of categories

          Navigation is not assisted by dividing up a set into tiny sets; on the contrary, creating those tiny groups impedes navigation.
          Your example of the Peron Battery misunderstands both the topic and the way that geographical categorisation works.
          First, the Peron Battery still exists. It's not in use, but the structure still exists ... so there is no basis for opposing its categorisation in Category:City of Rockingham. It's in the City of Rockingham, right now.
          Secondly, we don't maintain a separate set of geographical categories for every epoch of history. We categorise places and structures and events by the current geographical framework, because that's the only sane way we can track the history of an area. Just read "in Foo Shire" as meaning "in the area currently encompassed by Foo Shire". --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:51, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Manually merge to parent categories per WP:SMALLCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:22, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Town and Local Government areas are separate entities with their own unique relationships and histories that can have overlap. They are also part of larger structures of category trees of subjects that are unrelated, to the proposed merger. Gnangarra 12:35, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Please note that the following categories have more than 3 pages now: Category:Ellenbrook, Western Australia, Category:Kenwick, Western Australia, Category:South Fremantle, Western Australia, Category:Yanchep and Category:Neerabup, Western Australia. Steelkamp (talk) 15:41, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong object to changing - however the following are in error: -
Category:Hazelmere, Western Australia to Category:Perth, Western Australia -- wrong City of Swan
Category:North Beach, Western Australia to Category:Perth, Western Australia -- wrong City of Stirling
Category:Ellenbrook, Western Australia to Category:Perth, Western Australia -- wrong City of Swan
Category:Kenwick, Western Australia to Category:Perth, Western Australia --- wrong City of Gosnells
Category:Woodbridge, Western Australia to Category:Perth, Western Australia --- wrong City of Swan

JarrahTree 14:25, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]


The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

City of Stirling smallcats

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge manually. MER-C 17:11, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Propose manually merging:
2-page categories
  1. Category:Mirrabooka, Western Australia to Category:City of Stirling
3-page categories
  1. Category:Balcatta, Western Australia to Category:City of Stirling
  2. Category:Innaloo, Western Australia to Category:City of Stirling
Nominator's rationale: per WP:SMALLCAT. Each of these 3 subcats of Category:Suburbs in the City of Stirling (Western Australia) is tiny, and likely to have little chance of expansion. They each currently contain only the head article plus one or two other pages.
In each case, the head article is already in Category:Suburbs in the City of Stirling (so no need to merge), but the other pages should be manually merged to Category:City of Stirling.
I haven't checked for the availability of other articles to expand the categories; there are too many of these Australian smallcats to check. However, I make the nomination without prejudice to re-creating any of them which can be legitimately populated with more than five pages.
As with many New South Wales locations, the creation of geographical subcats of Perth has been indiscriminate. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:11, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Shire of Mundaring smallcats

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge manually. MER-C 17:11, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Propose manually merging:
2-page categories
  1. Category:Midvale, Western Australia to Category:Shire of Mundaring
  2. Category:Mount Helena, Western Australia to Category:Shire of Mundaring
  3. Category:The Lakes, Western Australia to Category:Shire of Mundaring
3-page categories
  1. Category:Bellevue, Western Australia to Category:Shire of Mundaring
  2. Category:Parkerville, Western Australia to Category:Shire of Mundaring
Nominator's rationale: per WP:SMALLCAT. Each of these 5 subcats of Category:Suburbs and localities in the Shire of Mundaring, Australia is tiny, and likely to have little chance of expansion. They each currently contain only the head article plus one or two other pages.
In each case, the head article is already in Category:Suburbs and localities in the Shire of Mundaring (so no need to merge), but the other pages should be merged to Category:Shire of Mundaring.
I haven't checked for the availability of other articles to expand the categories; there are too many of these Australian smallcats to check. However, I make the nomination without prejudice to re-creating any of them which can be legitimately populated with more than five pages.
As with many New South Wales locations, the creation of geographical subcats for Perth has been indiscriminate. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:00, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Indian Holocaust deniers

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 02:29, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT - only one person in the country of more than 1.3 billion people. Tessaracter (talk) 10:27, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Newnham, Tasmania

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 18:50, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: per WP:SMALLCAT. This subcat of Category:Suburbs of Launceston, Tasmania, Australia is tiny, and likely to have little chance of expansion. It currently contains only the head article Newnham, Tasmania plus one other page.
I checked the eponymous articles for links to other articles to expand the categories, but found nothing. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:27, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Suburbs of Hobart smallcats

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 18:51, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Propose deleting:
3-page categories
  1. Category:Battery Point, Tasmania
  2. Category:Bellerive, Tasmania
Nominator's rationale: per WP:SMALLCAT. Both of these subcats of Category:Suburbs of Hobart, Australia is tiny, and likely to have little chance of expansion. They each currently contain only the head article plus two other pages.
In each case, the head article is already in Category:Suburbs of Hobart (so no need to merge), and the other pages don't belong in Category:Suburbs of Hobart (so merger would be wrong).
I checked the eponymous articles for links to other articles to expand the categories, but found nothing. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:20, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Film series endings by year

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete all Timrollpickering (talk) 23:54, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Delete Category:Film series endings by year and its 44 subcategories per WP:NONDEF and WP:CRYSTALBALL. You can't 100% confirm if a film series is over or not. Some film series' will be put on hiatus and then have a movie produced or be rebooted several years later. This is a meaningless category. ֆօʍɛɮօɖʏǟռʏɮօɖʏ05 (talk) 16:07, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Please do not close for another 7 days, since the subcategories that are included were not originally tagged
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DannyS712 (talk) 08:35, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
more year categories

Delete all This is WP:NOTDEFINING, and requires WP:CRYSTAL for the categorization. UnitedStatesian (talk) 15:47, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. I havered about this one several times, discarding various !votes I had written. But after a lot of reflection, I think this is relatively simple: both sides are right.
Yes, the keepers are right: these series ended some time ago, and show no sign of revival.
Yes, the deleters are also right: there can never be zero probability of the series restarting. Even if we take the earliest category in this set — Category:1913 film series endings, whose only content is Sherlock Holmes (Éclair film series) — we can't entirely rule out the possibility that someone may decide to make more films in the same style and with the same technology and claim that it's a reboot of the old series after a 107-year interlude. The chances are probably up there with the flying pigs, but they are some tiny value of non-zero.
But we don't need 100% certainty to make a useful category. Remember that per WP:CAT, categories are primarily a navigation tool. They are not statements of eternal truth ... so I don't see any problem in categorising pages which share a defining attribute that appears highly probable. In the unlikely event that someone does make a another Sherlock Holmes Éclair film, we can recategorise.
Personally, I'd be happy to read e.g. Category:1931 film series endings as a shorthand "Film series whose last film was released in 1931, and where no known sequel is planned". We could add a hatnote to the category pages saying something like that.
Alternatively, we could rename the categories to a title which makes no assumptions either way about revival: e.g. Category:Film series with latest release in 1931. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:56, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@UnitedStatesian, Dimadick, *Treker, Marcocapelle, and SomeBodyAnyBody05: please could you read what I wrote above, and consider maybe changing your !vote? I think that something useful is salvageable out of this. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:10, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Scottish Gaelic language

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. Not relisted; everyone else agreed. (non-admin closure)Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 15:08, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Consistent with the primary article Scottish Gaelic. Soumya-8974 talk contribs subpages 07:23, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
copy of second CFDS discussion
@Armbrust and BrownHairedGirl: pinging contributors to CFDS discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:47, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fish of Algeria

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 17:18, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Being found in a particular country is non-defining for species with a wide distribution (e.g. Ringneck blenny or Egyptian cobra).  Lists (e.g. Wildlife of Algeria#Fauna and List of reptiles of Morocco) are a more suitable way to capture this information. Example previous CFDs. DexDor (talk) 05:51, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:North Tamworth, New South Wales

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 18:51, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: per WP:SMALLCAT. Contains only 3 pages: the head article North Tamworth, New South Wales and 2 others. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:36, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Denman, New South Wales

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 18:52, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: per WP:SMALLCAT. Contains only the head article Denman, New South Wales and one other. Both articles are already adequately-categorised, so no need to merge. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:42, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.