Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 December 16

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December 16

Category:Edmund Goulding

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:22, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Edmund Goulding (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: With only one other article besides the eponymous article, this category fails WP:OCEPON. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 22:09, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I just found and added Category:Films directed by Edmund Goulding‎, so perhaps this category can just be renamed to Category:Works by Edmund Goulding. Thanks. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 22:17, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Monarchs captured as prisoners of war

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Monarchs taken prisoner in wartime. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 06:25, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Monarchs captured as prisoners of war to Category:Monarchs taken prisoner in wartime

Nominator's rationale: @Good Olfactory, Brandmeister, Laurel Lodged, Marcocapelle, and Peterkingiron::

Hello all- I just stumbled on this cat and found the name a bit problematic. Technically speaking, the name could be read as meaning that these monarchs were POWs when captured. I'm offering here a suggestion for what I think would be a better name. Or we might replace "wartime" with "combat", depending on the breadth of cases the cat is meant to cover -- another example of why I think many of our cats should have a definition at the top of the page. Eric ^talk 19:32, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support, "prisoner of war" clearly is an anachronistic term in these cases. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:27, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support Clearer scope. Dimadick (talk) 22:00, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:26, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support -- This is a much better name. The category should certainly exist, but it should probably not include those captured and quickly put to death. Possibly [:Category:Monarchs taken prisoner by enemies]] might be even better. We might quibble about the inclusion of some of the monarchs: James I of Scotland was I think captured by the English pirates while voyaging to France to escape his uncle the regent Robert Stewart, Duke of Albany, who may have murdered his elder brother. The capture was problematic as it was in peacetime. Peterkingiron (talk) 13:32, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Thanks all for your input. Peter's comment brings up another aspect I was wondering about: From my (not comprehensive) reading of at least medieval European history, nobles taken prisoner were held for ransom in many cases. I don't know if this cat is intended to cover those. Eric ^talk 14:09, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Surely it will include these cases as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:52, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Conan films

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: rename (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:36, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Conan films to Category:Conan the Barbarian films

Nominator's rationale: Full name of character which parent categories use. ★Trekker (talk) 15:14, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Clearer identification of the character. Dimadick (talk) 22:01, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above, and just in case Mr O'Brien does any movies. Grutness...wha? 02:30, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Syndromes with mental retardation

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: rename. – Fayenatic London 23:31, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Syndromes with mental retardation to Category:Syndromes with intellectual disability

Nominator's rationale: Mental retardation is a highly deprecated and medically archaic term. A direct substitution for the modern term, intellectual disability, would put it in line with the name of its parent Category:Intellectual disability, and the naming conventions of its other parent, Category:Syndromes by affected organ. -- Xurizuri (talk) 10:49, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom, almost a speedy candidate per article title Intellectual disability. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:00, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note that pluralising "disabilities" has been proposed for the parent at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2021_December_17#Category:Intellectual_disability. – Fayenatic London 12:38, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- All right, that's going nowhere. – Fayenatic London
Note. I have put a message on WP:WikiProject Disability's talk page which mentions this discussion and the one mentioned by Fayenatic london. --Xurizuri (talk) 15:03, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 18:43, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Nepalese literary magazine

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: soft delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:48, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Nepalese literary magazine (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Moved to other categories Wallflowernepal (talk) 09:21, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This category has been emptied. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:31, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sengkang Sports Centre

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: already deleted per WP:G7 (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 20:15, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Sengkang Sports Centre (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Old category I made back in 2017. It used to have 2 pages, but they were merged last year, so the category is now obsolete. Nigos (talk | contribs) 07:01, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. @Nigos: You can tag the article with {{db-author}} to have it speedy deleted as you are the author of the page and nobody else has contributed major edits to the page. –Aidan721 (talk) 15:34, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, thanks I'll do that Nigos (talk | contribs) 15:38, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Israeli Jewish women singers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: copy to Category:Jewish women singers, rename to Category:Jewish Israeli singers. The issue with this category is that as a four-way intersection, it's stuck between many different category trees. Although there's a split between merge and keep, the consensus is still that this group of articles should be held together. Upmerging has several noted concerns about potentially obscuring ethnicity and about the current container category status of the target. In this case, it would seem to me that User:Fayenatic london's proposal strikes a balance by keeping the contents together, using two categories that occur in different trees. bibliomaniac 1 5 00:42, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Category:Israeli Jewish women singers to Category:Israeli women singers

Nominator's rationale: Not defing. Amost all the articles about Israeli singers I've seen - several hundred - are Jewish. Rathfelder (talk) 11:42, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, this is an issue of the entire tree of Category:Israeli Jews. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:35, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of Israelis are not Jewish, for example, Mansour Abbas, Mazen Ghnaim, Ayman Odeh, and most of the Category:Arab citizens of Israel (and not all non-Jewish Israelis are Arab). I am sure some non-Jewish Israelis are singers. Rlendog (talk) 15:17, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep to distinguish from Category:Israeli Arab women singers (which should exist), who will be Muslim or Christian, but of Israeli nationality. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:40, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Israeli Arab women singers would be defining, but there wouldnt be many articles. As far as I can see the material sung by Israeli women is not specifically Jewish, but there is clearly Jewish religious music sung by men. Rathfelder (talk) 19:34, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I am pretty sure that the "Jewish" in the category name refers to the religion/ethnicity of the singer and not to whether their songs are of a religious Jewish nature. Rlendog (talk) 16:17, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - It is entirely unclear what it refers to. Very few articles about Israeli people say that they are Jewish, though clearly most of them are. The people whose religion is noted are those who arent Jewish. Rathfelder (talk) 21:51, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    - Many articles about Jewish Israelis do mention their religion/ethnicity, and whether some articles about Jewish Israelis do not mention their religion or ethnicity is not relevant to whether the category is defining, since there are plenty of Israelis who are not Jewish. Rlendog (talk) 22:01, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. --Just N. (talk) 15:38, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
[comment moved from category talk page] Well, it is true that the majority of the Israeli women singers are Jewish, but there are also Israeli Arab women singers, may be even Israeli Circassian or Israeli Armenian or Israeli Black Hebrew ones Ewan2 (talk) 00:07, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

They can be categorised as Arab, Armenian etc. Singer categories are not strict about nationality. Rathfelder (talk) 22:28, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So then these singers would go into categories for Jewish women singers and Israeli women singers, while Arab Israeli singers would go into categories for Arab women singers and Israeli women singers? I suppose that would work but not sure how that is an improvement over the joint category. Rlendog (talk) 19:52, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is a four-way intersection (nationality, ethnicity, gender, occupation) which is generally considered WP:OCAT, in particular WP:OCEGRS. But Category:Israeli women singers is a poor target, as it is currently a container category, and the member pages are now all in C20/C21 sub-cats and other appropriate sub-cats of that one. ( https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?psid=20867478 ) Instead, copy to new Category:Jewish women singers within Category:Jewish women musicians and Category:Jewish singers, and rename to broader Category:Jewish Israeli singers C2C within Category:Israeli Jews by occupation (staying within Category:Jewish singers). – Fayenatic London 13:50, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac 1 5 06:21, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep- as the nominator does not explain why the upmerge ignores the other 3 parental trees. Oculi (talk) 12:01, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Merge~~Delete~~ 4 way intersections are a bad idea. I don't know why Jewish categories get a free pass on this rule. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:27, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- @Laurel Lodged: you must be aware that "delete" means the member articles get removed from all the parent hierarchies. Why should we do that rather than upmerge to multiple target categories? – Fayenatic London 22:49, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:20th-century rulers in North America

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 December 24#Category:20th-century rulers in North America