- Trump campaign–Russian meeting (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)
WP:WITHDRAWN is clear. A discussion can not be closed as "nominator withdrew" if anyone other than the nominator has voted non-keep. Mattflaschen - Talk 05:52, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- To be clear, I believe the article should be kept under Wikipedia:Notability (events). However, the original close was premature and inconsistent with the deletion process. Mattflaschen - Talk 06:01, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree the close was premature and also violated WP:WITHDRAWN. But if the outcome was in effect identical to your preferred outcome (and indeed there was already a 2-to-1 [12 to 6] WP:CONSENSUS to Keep), this DRV seems a WP:POINTY and pointless waste of time. You already made your point on the closer's talk page; no need to bring it here when the outcome will remain the same (the same outcome that would have occurred if the AfD had run for a full 7 days). I suggest a speedy close of this DRV (and a reminder to Bishonen to re-review WP:WITHDRAWN). -- Softlavender (talk)
- There were as many merge/delete votes as there were keep votes, I wouldn't call it a consensus for keep, but like you said that would have been the end result either way. It's why I decided to just propose a merger on the talk page after talking with the closing admin, rather than another deletion discussion. WikiVirusC(talk) 11:45, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- I concur with Softlavender (except for the WP:POINTY part). Wikipedia is WP:NOTBURO and re-opening the AfD wouldn't accomplish anything more than the ongoing merge discussion. Given that the subject has been prominently covered in the news for the past four days, with updated information being released, it is highly unlikely that the merge proposal will succeed and even less likely that a deletion proposal would pass.- MrX 10:33, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Here is closing discussion. The admin did not tell it was closed because of the withdrawal. He tells it was closed as "keep" and withdrawn. That was a legitimate closure. Here is ungoing merging discussion with very clear consensus to "keep". My very best wishes (talk) 12:49, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- comment - It was a !vote count as evidenced above when it should have been a decision based on the merits of the arguments. I also question the numbers of new editors that participated in the discussion which has/should have some influence in a close. Common sense and a close review of the comments shows that the consensus was to merge, as even some of the keeps approved a merge if keep didn't fly. This article fails policy on several counts and for that reason, should not have been allowed out of Draft Space the way it was written - (like the review of a spy thriller movie). It is not a stable article, it is filled with conspiracy theories that fail WP:V regardless of MSM's boldness in publishing them (they are allowed to propagandize their news, WP is not). It is clear to see that the article is politically charged and improperly weighted, and my edits to correct that failure were removed making this article even more unstable. It fails on so many counts, including WP:NOTNEWSPAPER, WP:BLP, WP:V, WP:N, and the list goes on. I do not disagree with merging the stable parts of the article to a section in a current article, be it the campaign (which is really where it belongs regardless of when the conspiracy theories began to fly), or Trump "associates" (whatever that means) and Russia. Notabiity is based on the fact that the event incentivized MSM to publish conspiracy theories which are being challenged as we speak. New revelations have come forward overnight. Atsme📞📧 14:40, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Irrespective of its ultimate validity, this close was woefully premature. Trout the closer and alert AfD participants about the merge discussion, where the merits are being actively debated. — JFG talk 17:11, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Trout and ping per JFG. @Atsme: @Baseball Bugs: @Bishonen: @Casprings: @Classicwiki: @Darmokand: @DarthBotto: @Don1182: @F2Milk: @Hidden Tempo: @I am One of Many: @JFG: @KConWiki: @Laurel Wreath of Victors: @Mattflaschen: @N-HH: @NoMoreHeroes: @NorthBySouthBaranof: @PackMecEng: @Power~enwiki: @Ryk72: @Sagecandor: @Sundayclose: @WikiVirusC: @Wnt: Close was clearly contrary to WP:WITHDRAWN, but given that essentially the same discussion is now underway at Talk:Trump_campaign–Russian_meeting#Merger_proposal, the least disruptive way forward would be to continue the discussion there -- RoySmith (talk) 17:33, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse closure There was no chance that the page would be deleted outright; having a merge discussion on the talk page is the appropriate forum. While technically a violation of the closing rules to have it closed as withdrawn rather than WP:SNOW, I feel WP:IAR applies. Overall, there needs to be some high-level consensus to allow for procedure-based administrative handling of these types of pages (such as a CSD if they aren't approved by a consensus on a WikiProject); the AfD process clearly cannot handle them. Power~enwiki (talk) 19:34, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- The close was improper and to soon. Less than 24 hours on a fairly split vote. Also snow would in no way apply to this situation. It is important to remember the vote is not by number of votes, but strength of argument. With the keep votes only argument being "clearly notable". I am not however advocating for reopening the AFD or a new one, as is it a moot point with the merge discussion on going. PackMecEng (talk) 20:30, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Though I am all for this being its own individual article, I did not approve of the improper closure of the AfD and would have preferred a declaration of no consensus. That being said, I believe our merger discussion will suffice, so let's keep the AfD closed and assume good faith. DARTHBOTTO talk•cont 21:00, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse closure And close merge discussion as keep. Whatever the previous arguments, the article clearly meets WP:N as a stand along event.Casprings (talk) 14:10, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- comment - the ongoing updates and disagreements over "allegations vs facts" are proof this article is not ready to be a standalone in mainspace. Some allegations were made, there was an attempt to link the Trump administration with the Russian government, the allegations have been denied, and now it's just MSM hype and big ole nothingburger. There is no harm to the encyclopedia by waiting for the allegations to be substantiated, the MSM frenzy of breaking news to subside as it always does, and then we can create a stable article once the facts have been substantiated. As it stands now, it's nothing more than a few paragraphs in merge. Atsme📞📧 19:16, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment, while I think the AfD was uncalled for and the merger proposal currently underway was the best solution (no good reason not to include this content in here), the AfD closure was very questionable. There was a significant number of delete and merge (including my own) !votes, and the discussion was still much too recent to result in closure. But anyway, it's probably a dead horse by now. A merger discussion is already in progress. NoMoreHeroes (talk) 20:05, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse close: AfD is now largely moot due to the on-going Keep vs Merge discussion on the article's Talk page. K.e.coffman (talk) 01:15, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse closure per K.e.coffman's reasoning. Classicwiki (talk) (ping me please, I don't watch pages) 07:44, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse closure And close merge discussion as Keep. Agree with analysis by Casprings, above. Article subject has only gotten more notable and received more coverage from thousands more sources in more languages in more locations in more places in the world, since the closure. Sagecandor (talk) 20:07, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- I am unclear on the nature of the 'closure' being discussed: is this a call for closure of discussion and a vote (as in closure in Parliament/cloture in Congress) on retention/deletion? Or are these "endorse closure"s themselves votes for closing (deleting) the page? Or what?
- This is a highly notable incident at this point, and there is ongoing journalistic and government investigation (Robert Muller)); it seems clear that it deserves its own page.Mikalra (talk) 23:33, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- They are endorsing the closing of the article for deletion discussion. Not endorsing a deletion of the article. The article was kept, but the discussion was thought of as being closed before it was done, and this review is to see if people want to reopen that discussion or just leave it closed. WikiVirusC(talk) 00:29, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Amend closure to no consensus / Overturn, and immediately re-close as no consensus. Per comments at their Talk page, closer did not assess a consensus; in part due to the difficulties involved in
attempting to assess such a fluctuating discussion, where people were talking about all different things ; and is supportive of a new AfD. Per K.e.coffman, above, re-opening conflicts with the current Merge discussion. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 01:55, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse closure per Casprings. Daniel Case (talk) 05:12, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Relist, procedural error which vitiates the closure. Stifle (talk) 08:22, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- No action. Probably the best close possible given the fluid situation that developed. Asking for it to be reopened or relisted at this time is process wonkery, given the ongoing talk page discussion. Lankiveil (speak to me) 23:56, 21 July 2017 (UTC).[reply]
- Request Can somebody please close this DR? At the article we currently list a deletion review, a merge discussion, and a proposed retitling, all pending. The other issues can't be resolved until this DR is settled. And the merge discussion recommended by this closure has been going on for two weeks. Is it just process you are debating here? Maybe it's time for WP:NOTBURO or even WP:IAR? --MelanieN (talk) 00:23, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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