Infinite Computer Solutions – Keep deleted / salted. This has been deleted twice already at AfD (although kept at an earlier AfD), and speedy deleted an additional four times as being advertising. Of course, none of that precludes consensus changing due to a rewrite and/or better sourcing. New sources were presented here, but consensus is that they do not establish notability and the title should remain salted. I don't see any consensus either way on whether the previous text should be userfied, but it sounds like if there were to be an acceptable article written on this topic, a rewrite from scratch would be required, so I'm not going to userfy. – -- RoySmith(talk)22:14, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it.
With regard to the history of the recreation, i see that there were issues with the article for being promotional/blatent advertising. However, the recent version of the article had every piece of information, cited a legitimate third-party reference. I had done a few edits on the page when it was triggered earlier for promotional content, i helped clean up the article to comply with Wiki guidelines. It would have been of value to have helped further improve the article than just deleting it and SALT! This appears more like a blanket evaluation. I see the recent deletion, was mainly due to the sources which were not of adequate quality to justify an article, although the article was not promotional. I submit to reinstate the article and appeal for editors to improve citations if so, rather than outright deletion. We should restore it and keep it open for improvement. Dhiraj1984 (talk) 07:22, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's rather unreasonable to expect others to fix the sourcing for you (seeing as it's you who asked for undeletion). For what it's worth, I did read through some of the sources and while I am not familiar enough with any to comment in detail, a number come off like catalogue entries or driveby mentions. Some others (such as [1]) may be substantial enough to make a case for notability. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 10:13, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
CRISIL has assigned a CRISIL IPO Grade "2/5" (pronounced "two on five") to the proposed initial public offer (IPO) of Infinite Computer Solutions (India) Ltd (Infinite). This grade indicates that the fundamentals of the IPO are below average relative to the other listed equity securities in India. However, this grade is not an opinion on whether the issue price is appropriate in relation to the issue fundamentals. The grade is not a recommendation to buy/sell or hold the graded instrument, or a comment on the graded instrument’s future market price or its suitability for a particular investor.
The assigned grading reflects Infinite’s relatively smaller size in the IT services industry. The grading also factors in the company’s slower revenue growth (around 12 per cent) compared to the industry’s growth rate of 22 per cent from 2005 to 2009. In addition, Infinite is present in the lower margin service lines (application development and maintenance and testing services), and faces client concentration risk. The top seven clients accounted for 84 per cent of the revenues in 2008-09. Further, Infinite’s revenues are largely concentrated from the United States of America (USA, 91 per cent) and are heavily dependent on the telecom sector (59 per cent).
This provides critical coverage of the subject.
The article also provides a history of the company:
Infinite, promoted by Mr Sanjay Govil, was incorporated on September 6, 1999 as a private limited company. The company, which was subsequently converted into a public limited company on February 14, 2008, operates with 12 offices across the globe, including the US, the UK, India, China, Malaysia, Singapore and Australia. Its delivery centres are located in Bengaluru, Gurgaon, Hyderabad and Chennai.
The company provides various IT services such as application development and maintenance, testing services, infrastructure management services and IP leveraged solutions. Infinite is primarily focused on the telecom and media, healthcare and manufacturing sectors. The key clients of Infinite include Verizon, IBM, GE, AOL, ACS and Alcatel Lucent.
...
In August 2007, Infinite Computer Solutions Inc, USA acquired Comnet International Company (Comnet), which is a telecommunication OEM focused company. Also, in 2005-06, Infinite acquired Datagrid Services Pvt Ltd, a Business Process Outsourcing (BPO) company based in Hyderabad. However in 2007-08, Infinite sold its investments in this BPO.
Investors can give the initial public offering of Infinite Computer Solutions, an IT services provider, a miss considering the relatively high valuation that it demands and the several business challenges that the company faces.
...
Infinite provides IT services to a limited set of verticals. Telecom (59.4 per cent of revenues) and healthcare (16.6 per cent) are its largest verticals. Its top five clients contribute close to 80 per cent of revenues, with its top-client (IBM) accounting for nearly 40 per cent of revenues. Though smaller companies do have higher client concentration, these levels seem quite high.
In recent interactions with the media, many large IT services players have indicated that telecom and manufacturing are not yet out of the woods.
This means that Infinite, with its heavy dependence on telecom, faces added risks on volume growth on this front.
The presence of players such as Tech Mahindra and Sasken Communications with greater execution capabilities, especially on the R&D front, a key to success in the telecom vertical, as well as top-tier IT layers puts heavy competitive pressure on Infinite.
This article provides detailed analysis of Infinite Computer Solutions' weaknesses.
Surjit, R.; Rathinamoorthy, R.; Vardhini, K. J. Vishnu (2016). ERP for Textiles and Apparel Industry. Boca Raton, Florida: CRC Press. ISBN978-9385059599.
From page 115:
Apart from these global ERP vendors, there are other major textile and apparel ERP giants who provide ERP solutions and are listed as follows:
1. Datatex ERP, implemented through Infinite computer solutions
From pages 238–239:
Datatex NOW ERP solution, which has been implemented in many flourishing textile companies to handle their business better, was chosen along with “Infinite,” their implementation partner. Infinite Computer Solutions is an international IT company with expertise in Platformisation™ IT solutions and frameworks, product engineering, and enterprise mobility solutions. Domain experts from Infinite started the business process reengineering (BPR) phase and restructured the top 20% of the processes. The BPR process they reconfigured and finalized was called “BPR-on-fly,” which essentially set the platform ready for implementing Datatex NOW. The software was implemented in the following areas: garment and fabric sales, purchase, warehouse, costing, planning, production, and quality. Difficulties in implementation included implementing the platform in dual locations. It was handled by a dedicated core team of subject-matter experts and a technical team from Infinite. The ERP system became ready to run after a period of 16 months.
From page 244:
Infinite Computer Solutions came up with an option of implementing Datatex NOW ERP to handle both the textile division and the steel division. It had all the required modules to cater to sales, purchase, warehousing, costing, planning, production, quality, and HR payroll and was fully equipped to manage the latest challenges and requirements in a dynamic industry. The challenges faced in implementing the software over multiple locations were overcome by the Infinite’s team of domain experts.
Infinite Computer Solutions is a global service provider of Infrastructure Management Services, Intellectual Property (IP) Leveraged Solutions, and IT Services, focused on the Telecom, Media, Technology, Manufacturing, Power and Healthcare industries. Infinite Computer services span from Application Management Outsourcing, Packaged Application Services, Independent Validation and Verification, Product Development and Support, to higher value-added offerings including Managed Platform and Product Engineering Services.
Infinite Computer's major customers includes Verizon, IBM, ACS, GE and AOL. Company have 14 offices across the globe, including offices in multiple locations in the US, UK, India, China, Malaysia, Singapore and Australia. Infinite is one of the leading providers of telecom- specific offerings to service providers, OEMs and ISVs in the Telecom vertical, globally. For fiscal year 2008-09, the telecom vertical contributed to 59.4% of their total revenues.
The article further notes:
CRISIL has assigned an IPO Grade 2 to Infinite Computer IPO. This means as per CRISIL, company has below average fundamentals. CRISIL assigns IPO gradings on a scale of 5 to 1, with Grade 5 indicating strong fundamentals and Grade 1 indicating poor fundamentals.
Information technology services firm Infinite Computer Solutions India Ltd. said late Wednesday that its $45 million initial public offering was subscribed more than 43 times at the end of order-taking, with strong responses from all sections of investors.
The share offer for 11.5 million shares received more than 422.56 million bids, with the qualified institutional buyers portion subscribed 48.44 times, the high networth individual section 106.02 times, and the retail tranche 11.07 times, the company said in a statement, citing data from the National Stock Exchange.
...
The IPO also received bids from nine anchor investors--including T. Rowe Price International Inc., Carlson Fund India, Lloyd George Investment Management (Bermuda) Ltd.--who had been allocated nearly 1.73 million shares at 165 rupees a piece.
To strengthen its IP-leveraged solutions business and capitalise on opportunities in the telecom sector, Infinite Computer Solutions (ICS) India Limited is looking at acquiring two US-based companies focussed on telecom-specific Intellectual Property (IP)-led solutions. Infinite is looking at acquiring companies with revenues in the $10 million-$15 million range, said Infinite chief executive officer Upinder Zutschi.
...
ICS acquired telecom OEM-focussed firm Comnet International in an all-cash deal in August 2007, which helped it obtain IP domain expertise and integrate IP development into its revenue sharing model. The same year, ICS exited its investments in Datagrid Services, a Hyderabad-based BPO firm, which it had acquired in 2006.
...
ICS operates 12 offices across the globe including in the US, UK, India, China, Malaysia, Singapore and Australia employing 2,700 people. The company runs its delivery centers in Bangalore, Gurgaon, Hyderabad and Chennai.
Infinite has three lines of business or service offerings—application management or IT services, infrastructure management and product and IP-leveraged solutions. The company which counts IBM, Fujitsu, GE and Verizon, America’s largest wireless carrier, as its clients is focussed on generating business from large companies operating in verticals of telecom, media, healthcare and utilities. While Infinite has had to make do with smaller margins initially due to its Fortune 500 company focus, it has gained in terms of the size of contracts, experience in handling large projects and steady revenues.
However, analysts say that the company is taking a big risk on its thin roster of clients (the top 5 contribute 84 per cent of revenues, with Verizon alone contributing nearly 40 per cent) and can cause problems if vendors are switched or work is downsized. The company however believes that the scale, complexity and familiarity with the critical processes ensure the “stickability” of the vendor. The company also faces geography risk with 90 per cent of its business flowing from the US.
While the long-term outlook for software services is strong and recent uptick in hiring is a positive, the recovery in the US and other developed markets continues to be shaky. Though a predominant share of the future business will continue to come from the US, the company signed a multi-million dollar deal with a European company in 2008 and is looking to diversify its geographic risk further.
Keep deleted, don't unsalt, don't userfy it would be a waste of everyone's time. Cunard's sourcing doesn't actually address the notability concerns, it just takes up a lot of space. This has been deleted enough times that we know what the outcome of the next AfD will be. I don't see any reason to repeat the past. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:27, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
weak 'keep deleted' I generally find Cunard's sources to be on-point. And I always appreciate the details being provided. But in this case, the coverage is mostly about the IPO or other business transactions. And the parts that are about the company, feel like they were written as a press release. Weak because there is coverage. I just don't think that coverage really covers the company itself in a very useful way for writing an article. Hobit (talk) 23:48, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is inaccurate to say that "the parts that are about the company, feel like they were written as a press release". No press release would say this:
Investors can give the initial public offering of Infinite Computer Solutions, an IT services provider, a miss considering the relatively high valuation that it demands and the several business challenges that the company faces.
The article goes into substantial detail about Infinite Computer Solutions' different weaknesses. Specifically, the article says:
Infinite Computer Solutions "provides IT services to a limited set of verticals" and "these levels seem quite high" compared to other companies.
Infinite Computer Solutions has competitors like Tech Mahindra and Sasken Communications that have "greater execution capabilities" such as in R&D.
This information would be "very useful ... for writing an article" and it is clearly not just "about the IPO or other business transactions".
There is other useful information for writing an article about the company in sources such as CRISIL, which covers the company's history. It cannot be considered "written as a press release" since it also includes critical information about Infinite Computer Solutions' fundamentals. CRISIL gives the company an IPO grade of 2/5 and says "the fundamentals of the IPO are below average relative to the other listed equity securities in India".
Lower revenue from a key telecom client and delays in revenue recognition from government projects continued to hamper the top line of Bangalore-based Infinite Computer Solutions for the second consecutive time in the December 2011 quarter. However, expected traction from the top client and large deals in the coming quarters will be future growth drivers.
...
At the current market price of Rs 88.7, the stock trades at three times its earnings for the trailing twelve months, which is much cheaper in comparison with the similar-sized industry rivals. However, high client concentration and delays in revenue recognition continue to be the major concerns.
This provides critical analysis of Infinite Computer Solutions' strengths and weaknesses.
Endorse, keep deleted, and keep salted- The AfD close was correct based on the discussion there, and I don't see anything in the sourcing presented since to justify re-creating it. Given the previous disruption surrounding this advertisement, I think keeping it salted for now would be prudent. ReykYO!18:12, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.
