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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2012–13 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 10:03, 9 November 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

2012–13 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team

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2012–13 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:19, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because it is a very important season for WP:CBBALL. It chronicles a national player of the year's season as well as the 2013 NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament runner-up team's season. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:19, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that I attempted to get this cleaned up at WP:PR and the request was ignored for a full cycle.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:25, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest removal by delegate The nominator is unable to either respond to comments or withdraw the article, seems best that it is removed until he is unblocked Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:32, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

Resolved comments from Toa Nidhiki05 16:55, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Toa Nidhiki05

Going to go over a list all concerns I see.

Lede

*Insert a comma after 'Ann Arbor, Michigan'.

*'The team entered February with a 20–1 record (7–1 B1G), but with an injury to eventual B1G All-Defensive selectee Jordan Morgan and a stretch of games against its strongest conference opponents, Michigan lost three out of four games and closed the season with a 5–5 run to finish tied for fourth in the conference. They then won one game in the Big Ten Tournament before being eliminated.' Once again, a bit of a run-on. I would suggest putting a period after noting they lost three of their last four games, and then combining the other two sentences.

*Remove the quotation marks around 'official' per WP:SCAREQUOTES. I would suggest rewording this sentence entirely to something along the lines of "The Wolverines appeared in the national championship game, the first time the team had done so since 1989; appearances in 1992 and 1993 were vacated due to a scandal".

Preseason roster changes

*'The team lost both of its 2011–12 Michigan Wolverines captains to graduation after they completed their eligibility the prior season.' No need to note the previous season specifically; just say 'the team had lost both of its captains from the previous season...'

*Move or remove the 'April 7' in front of 'Nike Hoops Summit', as it is not part of the event's name.

Preseason

*'...were ranked number 1 and 3 respectively.' Add a comma after 3.

Slogans, nicknames, and emblems

*'According to David Brandon, assistant coach LaVall Jordan and director of basketball operations Travis Conlan, guided to the team to develop the slogan' Remove the comma after Conlan.

Schedule

One thing I notice in this is that this section is big, and has a lot of text. It would be very difficult to find anything in particular here, especially individual game result. I would suggest this be divided somehow - like dividing it into regular season and postseason sections, or dividing it by month up until the tournament. With that out of the way, I'll get on to the section itself.

*'In its November 12 contest against the IUPUI Jaguars, the team's 91–54 victory gave it its first consecutive 90-point performances since the 2000–01 team, did so with 90 against Oakland and 92 against Western Michigan as part of a November 2000 3-game 90-point streak.' Seems a bit weirdly worded. I'd change this to 'The team's first game of the tournament, a November 12 contest against the IUPUI Jaguars, resulted in a 91–54 victory for Michigan. The win also gave Michigan its first consecutive 90-point performances since the 2000–01 team recorded three consecutive 90-point games.'

Statistics

*In all instances of numbers in the thousands, use commas.

*Change the first sentence to 'Statistics come from the team's website'.

Watchlists and awards

*Nothing really bad here, but it would be nice if you would vary up phrasings a bit. It seems like every other sentence begins with 'On [x date]'.

2013 NBA Draft

*Big problem with this section is it is written in present-tense. Since these events already happened, the text needs to be in past-tense.

Postseason roster changes

*'On May 8, 2013, the school's final required disassociation with players implicated in the University of Michigan basketball scandal ended.' Very awkward to read. Change to something like 'The team's required 10-year dissociation with players implicated in the University of Michigan basketball scandal ended on May 8, 2013'.

Great job on the fixes - I'll go ahead and give tentative support, since there hasn't been a full source check yet. Toa Nidhiki05 23:07, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Review by MarshalN20

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Leaning Support: The article looks great, and it was a fun read. However, I find the amount of images in certain sections quite overwhelming. Some are repetitive and others lack action. To be more specific:

With regards to the sources, I think all of them are appropriately used along with their level of reliability. For instance, source 255 caught my attention, but I think it is acceptable since it is citing an uncontroversial (and related) subject. My only suggestion here, and this is something that might sound bothersome, is to change the number dates into words (instead of 2012-11-21, write 21 November 2012). I have found this to make source management and checking much easier, and also would help readers be less confused (sad it may sound, readers do get confused with the month-date order).


Regards.--MarshalN20 | Talk 19:17, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, moving the image from the bottom to the Roster section would look much better.
I switched the image positions.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:17, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Changing vote to full Support.
Great work.--MarshalN20 | Talk 03:03, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from SkotyWATC 04:49, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Skotywa review comments
  • "the team matched the greatest starts in school history" should either be "the greatest start" or "one of the greatest starts" shouldn't it?
  • "Reaching 11–0..." maybe could be worded better as "Starting the season with 11 consecutive wins..." and would reduce the repetitiveness of the schedule milestones discussed in later sentences.
  • "Tim Hardaway, Jr. was named to the All-Big Ten 1st team by the coaches and to the 2nd team by the media; Robinson was named an honorable mention All-Big Ten by the media and Morgan was an All-Big Ten Defensive team selection." Is the semicolon usage here correct? I would have thought a comma instead of a semicolon, and another comma before "and Morgan" is the right way to do it. I'm not an expert in semicolon punctuation though.
  • First it says this: "At 16–0, Michigan matched their best start since" and then later it says this: "Burke (9th) and Hardaway (24th) gave Michigan its first pair of first round NBA draft choices". I think either "its" or "their" is fine for "Michigan", just be consistent on which one you use throughout the article.
  • The first line of text in the "Preseason roster changes" appears to be an uncredited, unsourced quote.
  • "the team lost three players who decided to transfer: Evan Smotrycz, Carlton Brundidge and Colton Christian decided to leave the program." Here, "decided to leave the program" seems redundant.
  • "As of December 30, 2011, McGary, Robinson and Stauskas ranked 3, 34, and 79 in the Rivals.com Class of 2012 Top 150, respectively" maybe this is just personal preference, but it seems like the "respectively" would make more sense right after the 79.
  • "Albrecht led Northfield Mount Hermon School to the 2012 NEPSAC Class AAA Boys' Basketball Tournament, defeating McGary's Brewster in the semifinals." I had to do a double take on "McGary's Brewster" trying to figure out what it was talking about. The table next to the paragraph clears it up, but it might be worth using the full school name, Brewster Acadamy, here since it's the first mention in the prose. Wikilink would probably be appropriate here as well for the same reason.
  • "After most of the big signings announced their decisions on the April 11 signing day" I'm confused by this statement since so many other dates are mentioned in the paragraphs above. Did they just "commit" on those dates but not "sign" until April 11th?
    • College basketball recruiting is sort of complicated. Players are often identified before they become a teenager and start getting physical mails, emails, and texts from schools. At certain times of year certain types of communications are allowed. Over time these times of year change. At some point as players reciprocate interest in schools, a school will make an official offer. They probably have to record official offer dates with the NCAA or at least keep official records to document the propriety of their communications (Offer date is often the first important date in a relationship). As players gather official offers, they also scout out schools by taking official and unofficial visits to schools. There are specific types of activities that are allowed for official visits and others that are allowed for unofficial visits. Players are allowed official visits to up to 5 schools. I have never read the rules, but I believe schools are allowed to provide round trip transportation, lodging and special events tickets. Oftentimes player will attend to during a home football game weekend or come during Midnight Madness weekend (Official visit dates are important). Coaching staffs are also allowed to make an official visit to the players home where his mother will often prepare a homecooked meal. For a lot of players, the relationship between the coaching staff and his parent is an important factor (home visit dates are important date and may come before an official visit). At some point after the players have visited campuses and coaches have visited their homes, players will often make an announcement of which school they have chosen. For blue chip players, there is often either a press conference held at his school or a media announcement (e.g., a live announcement on ESPN). These announcement are called verbal commitments. Jabari Parker's article has three pictures of his verbal commitment press conference that I attended. Once you make a commitment, other schools are limited on the types of communications and interactions that they are allowed to have with you. A player has to officially decommit in order to change schools. Then at some later date you officially sign a National Letter of Intent. Once you have signed a letter of intent you are commited to that school for the next year unless the coach leaves the school before the season starts (signing day is the last important date). Signing is only allowed during certain parts of the year. I think there are two signing periods a year for basketball. The first day of each period is called a Signing day because it is when most signings happen. I think you have to sit out a year if you want to change schools after signing a letter of intent. I think most of the dates in this article are commit dates and signing dates. Lots of bios have the three earlier dates too.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:03, 12 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thank you for the explanation. Do you think that there should be any more clarification in the article prose about this, or is it reasonable to expect the reader to have some understanding of this? Obviously I didn't, but I'm not that familiar with college basketball. --SkotyWATC 16:17, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • NLI has an article. It is pretty much like signing a contract and a verbal commitment is an official promise. I don't know how much confusion there is between making a promise and signing a contract, but since one of them is linkable, I hope the confusion is not too great.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:42, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Iowa State signee Monte Morris" I would say only leave Monte Morris a red link if you actually think an article will be created for him.

Sorry that I've only had time to review through the "Roster" section so far. If I have time later, I'll continue reviewing. Let me know when you've addressed my concerns and I'll come back and strike them. --SkotyWATC 17:37, 12 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've struck my comments which have all been addressed. I had one follow up comment/thought on the recruiting paragraph, but I'll leave it up to TonyTheTiger to decide if anything should be added/changed since this article is well outside my areas of familiarity. I hope to have some time this afternoon or early this week to continue reviewing the rest of the article. --SkotyWATC 16:17, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm finally back to finish my review of this article. Sorry for the delay. Too many things going on right now in my life. Anyway...

Okay, I'm done with my review. That's all I found. I look forward to returning and striking my comments/concerns/suggestions and voicing my support. Again, sorry for the delay with my review. --SkotyWATC 22:56, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Okay, all is well with my review comments. I am happy to support this article's promotion to WP:FA. --SkotyWATC 00:26, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image check - all OK (own work, Flickr CC, PD-ineligible).

  • Support Comments thanks to this.
  • "The team lost graduating senior captains Zack Novak and Stu Douglass, who moved on to professional basketball careers in Europe. " when? I'd say something like "Following the 2011-12 season, the team lost...".
  • "The team made its first Sweet Sixteen appearance since the 1993–94 team did so in the 1994 Tournament." just mentions "1994 once here IMO

YE Pacific Hurricane 03:05, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In all, very good job. YE Pacific Hurricane 03:06, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

El Cid Ruderico's review

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I will continue to do what I can, to shoot around for 50 or so per day in the coming days. Elcid.ruderico (talk) 01:01, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Other than those slips, the narrative is great. Although I never watched a single moment of Michigan basketball from this season, I get the idea I could easily remember the best plays from a strong season. Down to about 140 more refs (another 41 in the games results table). --Elcid.ruderico (talk) 01:23, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Now, only 207–275 to go. --Elcid.ruderico (talk) 07:40, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Almost there – should be able to get it wrapped up tomorrow.

Just that one. Ref check done. Everything looks great! Here's hoping your article passes. --Elcid.ruderico (talk) 09:43, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Notes by Ian Rose

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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