Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Battle of Köse Dağ/archive1

Battle of Köse Dağ

Featured article candidates/Battle of Köse Dağ/archive1

Nominator(s): ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:37, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Battle of Köse Dağ was a decisive event for the Middle East, marking the end of real Seljuk power and another feather in the cap of the Mongol war machine. One of the great powers of the Mediterranean was overpowered on its own territory by an army half its size operating 4,500km away from its homeland. Quite an achievement, by any measure.

This article has passed a GA review from Premeditated Chaos and a MILHIST A-class review from which the above introduction was taken. If successful, it will be used in the WikiCup. All comments welcome. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:37, 1 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from PMC

I'll have a look and see if I missed anything at the GAN, although I recall it being pretty tight to begin with. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:14, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Don't use fixed px size

Suggest adding alt text. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:25, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- Nikkimaria, done the latter, but I don't know another way to adjust the size of an infobox image? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:27, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

- - You can either modify the template to accommodate upright scaling, or just do this. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:09, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Cplakidas

Reserving a spot here for this important article. Constantine ✍ 10:33, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Lede

Is there a reason why Rum became a client kingdom while Georgia a vassal state? I am not sure what the difference is, if any (and whether we should have two different articles, but that is another story)
Include the Georgians and Armenians in the infobox (a la 'various mercenaries' for the Sejuks?
Use 'Seljuk' in the infobox per article text

Background

gained control of Anatolia 'gained control of large parts of Anatolia' or 'gained control of central and eastern Anatolia' or similar, as the west and parts of the north was still Byzantine, the south Armenian, there were other Turkoman principalities, etc.

Prelude

Christian Georgian and Armenian auxiliaries the Georgians are already covered, but were these Armenians from the Caucasus (I assume so) or from Cilicia?
which the Christians distributed I assume the Christian auxiliary troops in Mongol service are meant here?

Battle

Arab tribes of Iraq is this Iraq in the modern sense or Iraq (region)?
possessed a solidarity 'cohesion' might be a better word here
They were accompanied by Georgian and Armenian cavalry, including Hasan-Jalal I, the ruler of the Principality of Khachen is repeated verbatim

Aftermath

Mongol dominance in Asia Minor stick to 'Anatolia' as already used before and after
Is there a link (e.g. in the Turkish wiki) for the vizier Muhezzibeddin?

That's it for a quick first review. The article is fairly well written and easy to read, but quite short for such an important event. Will have a look in my own sources for a comprehensiveness check. Constantine ✍ 17:14, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Gog the Mild

Recusing to review.

Lead: "with an army of 30,000 Mongol troops accompanied by Georgian and Armenian auxiliaries"; Article: "The core of the Mongol army was about 30,000 experienced and disciplined troops, ... accompanied by Georgian and Armenian cavalry": Infobox: "Around 30,000". The last does not correspond unless the total of Georgian and Armenian auxiliaries/cavalry was in the low hundreds. And if they were, why are they significant enough to be mentioned - at least in the lead?
- I am not aware of any RS estimations of the size of the auxiliary forces, but without exception RS place heavy stress in their participation in the campaign and especially the battle, where they played a critical role. I cannot say "more than 30,000" in the infobox because that could imply there were 200,000, but neither can I provide an upper bound because that would be OR. I hope you can see the quandary. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:48, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but no I can't. Why does '"more than 30,000' imply 200,000 any more or less than "30,000 Mongol troops accompanied by Georgian and Armenian auxiliaries"?

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:53, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]