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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Henrik Sedin/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 03:11, 28 May 2010 [1].

Henrik Sedin

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Henrik Sedin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 01:41, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Henrik Sedin is the most recent winner of the Art Ross Trophy as the NHL's leading scorer. I've worked on his article extensively for the past year or so and believe it is as comprehensive as possible, including information on his early life, personal life and early career in Sweden. I believe it is as close to FA standards as I could have possibly made it, but am looking forward to the comments and suggestions I'm sure I'll receive in the FAC process. Cheers! Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 01:41, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. No dab links, no dead external links. Ucucha 14:12, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lenghty Comments:
  • "Henrik began his career in the Elitserien with Modo Hockey, winning the Golden Puck as Swedish player of the year in 1999 as a co-recipient with Daniel." This makes it sound like he both started his career and won the Golden Puck in 1999. It should be started that he began in 1997.
  • "Selected third overall by the Canucks in the 1999 NHL Entry Draft, Henrik has spent his entire NHL career in Vancouver and has led the team in scoring the past three seasons, from 2007–08 to 2009–10." I would make that into the past tense: "was the team's scoring leader from 2008-10."
  • "Internationally, Henrik competes for Sweden and has won a gold medal at the 2006 Winter Olympics in Turin, as well as two bronze medals at the 1999 and 2001 World Championships." Again into past tense: "Internationally, Henrik has competed for Sweden..."
  • The images switch between calling him "Henrik" and "Sedin." As the article refers to him as "Henrik," I'd change the images to reflect that as well.
  • I'd consider merging the Early life and Personal life sections, as they are both rather small, and the Early life is mostly under the scope of his personal life.
  • "They were ranked first and second among European prospects with expectations for each of them to go in the top five." To clarify for readers unfamiliar with the NHL Entry Draft, change to: "expectations for each of them to be one of the top five selections."
  • " Alternatively, Barnett suggested that either Henrik or Daniel opt-out of the 1999 draft and hope that the same team can selected both players by that route." Should read "same team select both players by that route."
  • "Nevertheless, Henrik and Daniel both entered the 1999 draft with the expectation of being selected separately." They would have had "the expectation of being selected by seperate teams."
  • "Henrik struggled to produce offensively in a career-high 12 games in the playoffs, however, managing four points as the Canucks were eliminated by the Anaheim Ducks in the second round." There is no reference for this.
  • "He completed the season as the Canucks' leading scorer with 76 points,[23] earning the team's Cyrus H. McLean Trophy for the first time." Should explain what the Trophy is for.
  • In the sixth paragraph of the section, Henrik is named the "NHL's second star of the month," without capitalisation. Two paragraphs later, he's titled the "NHL's First Star of the Month," with capitalisation. I'm fairly certain that it is a capitalised title; regardless, it should be consistent throughout the article.
  • "It marked the first time in nearly five years that a Canucks player held the league-lead in point-scoring since Näslund was tied with Robert Lang on 18 February 2004." This is an awkward sentence. I'd suggest: "It marked the first time in nearly five years, since Näslund was tied with Robert Lang on 18 February 2004, that a Canucks player held the league-lead in point-scoring."
  • There is no mention of Henrik setting the Canucks record for assists in a season. As it's listed in the lead, it would be good to include it in the body of the article.
  • The second and fourth paragraphs of the International play section are missing references.
  • "Consequently, he has recorded the first two 20-goal seasons of his career in the past two campaigns, while also increasing his shot totals." Once again in regards to keeping in past tense. I'd reword it to say: "Consequently, he recorded the first two 20-goal seasons of his career in those two campaigns..."
  • "With his offensive skill marking the prime component of his game, Henrik is known to avoid initiating aggressive contact with opposing players, as well as Daniel." The flow of the sentence is disrupted at the end. I'd move that part up, so it reads: "... prime component of his game, Henrik, as well as Daniel, is known..."

That should be all from me. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:22, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One more I forgot about. As the article is about an international subject based in Canada, it should probably use Canadian English spelling and date formats. Now that should be all from me. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:10, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Awesome. Thanks for the comments. I'll make sure I get to em soon. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 17:54, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think I've taken care of all the above issues. In regards to date formatting, I had a pretty lengthy dispute with another user in attempts to revert it back to the standard Canadian format before just leaving it alone after some time. You can see the discussion here: User_talk:LarRan#Date_format. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 06:48, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support All my issues taken care of. The date formatting comment was more opinion, and my unfamiliarity with that system, so nothing major. Kaiser matias (talk) 21:32, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Reliability of the references looks fine throughout. I'd like to review the prose as well, but I want to wait for the above comments to be addressed. Don't wait too long, as leaving them unaddressed without any support may lead to archival. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 20:15, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Okay, I see those have been taken care. Now time for me to look...
      • Early life: I'm pretty sure the hyphens should be removed from "eight-years-old".
      • Playing career: "with expectations for each of them to go be one of the top five selections." Feels like "go" is one word too many here.
      • Overlinking is something to watch for here. I see multiple Vancouver Canucks links in a paragraph; one is fine for that purpose. Also, I'm not sure the North America link is that beneficial to readers (everyone should know what it is).
      • "Gradin notified them five minutes before the draft of the Canucks intentions." Apostrophe needed at end of team name.
      • Non-breaking spaces should be used in high dollar amounts, like this: 1.125 million (click edit button to see formatting). This is incredibly annoying, but should still be done.
      • "awarded to the player deemed to be the most valuable on his team, alongside Sidney Crosby and Alexander Ovechkin.." Double period; one is after a citation and is the one to remove.
      • Last sentence of the section needs some attention: "as voted by members of the NHLPA [47]." In addition to the spacing issues, the NHLPA link goes to a disambiguation page, and the initials should be spelled out regardless.
      • Playing style: Consequently, he recordeded...". Typo. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 20:31, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Gone ahead and taken care of those. Thanks very much for the comments. Cheers, Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 21:21, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support – With my comments taken care of, this looks like a nice article, and good enough to meet FA standards. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:19, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sources comment

Looking through the covers.com website, there's an 'about' page that says the Covers Media Group has been referenced by some pretty reliable publications (ie. USA Today, New York Times, etc.) You can see it here. If that doesn't suffice though, I'd be happy to find a different reference. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 04:19, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to be part of a double citation of the three words "often without looking", so unless other editors object, I don't think there's a problem here. Brianboulton (talk) 20:54, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. With User:Resolute bringing Jarome Iginla and Theoren Fleury to featured article status, and now this, I may need to write an FA about an Oiler one of these days. This looks generally good; I did some fairly extensive copyedits, so another set of eyes to make sure I didn't screw anything up might be advisable. Some notes from the pre-copyedit version:
  • Some of the phrasing was quite awkward.
  • Some of the wording, particularly "notched" but also "reeled off", was far too colloquial for an encyclopedia article.
  • Henrik's name was overused, and pronouns were correspondingly underused.
  • The image captions lacked periods even when written in sentence case.
  • There were a fair number of misplaced modifiers and the like ("Playing as tournament host at the junior tournament, Henrik improved...", "Henrik's 61 assists ranked fourth overall in the league for the second consecutive season.", "Henrik began to expand his skill-set as solely a passer...")
  • I haven't done anything about this, but to my mind there are too many dates that are essentially irrelevant; the specific date Sedin achieved various milestones might be relevant in some cases, but I'm doubtful that the specific dates contracts were signed is of much interest, and they disrupt the flow somewhat.
Two exceedingly minor outstanding issues:
Thanks very much for the copy-edit; looks really good. In regards to the first issue you raised, I reorganized the phrasing, but let me know if it still seems awkward or confusing. In regards to the second, I managed to find a reference for Valter's year of birth. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 00:35, 15 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object I'll have to complain about undue weight. In the last four or so years, he has played 82 games, and his scoring total ranged from 75 to 112 (50%) variation. But one season has two lines and the recordbreaking one has 17 on my screen (equivalent to about 20 if you consider the width of the lines). It's true that in record-breaking years there will be more comments, punditry, records etc to talk about so there won't be a strict proportionality, but this really sticks out....As for his second and third seasons, they get one sentence in total. In those seasons he scored about 35 points, so it wasn't as though he was completely injured or something. Some of the years seem underdeveloped. With the 2010 Olympic games, presumably as he was the leading scorer in NHL, there would presumably have been a lot of expectations that he would score many for Sweden, but he scored none at all and they were bundled out as defending champions in the QF. Was there not any press commentary on the discrepancy in his club/country form? YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 06:16, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I've done some work on the first few years of his NHL career, adding a few paragraphs of prose. Hope that at least begins to address the undue weight issue. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 05:58, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 00:35, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not happy with the prose. It needs treatment throughout. Here are examples from the top.

  1. "identical twin" needs a link? WP is not a dictionary, the pillar says. And I see it linked again 20 seconds later.
  2. "Henrik began his career in the Elitserien with Modo Hockey in 1997 and was co-recipient, with Daniel, of the Golden Puck as Swedish player of the year in 1999." Could you insert "Stockholm team" or "in Sweden" early in the sentence?
  3. "and led the team in scoring the past three seasons"—you score a season? Or do we need a preposition somewhere?
  4. I'm not one for flag icons, since the country name is already emblazoned next to it. But it's no big deal.
  5. Chain-linking undesirable: the town has a link to Sweden in its article, surely? Örnsköldsvik, Sweden.
  6. "Henrik began playing organized hockey with Daniel at eight years old." Native speaker needed to sift through this whole article: "at the age of eight".
  7. During is better: "Henrik recorded a goal and five points over 39 games in his rookie season." If there were only 39 games in the season, make it "during the 39 games of his ...".
  8. "and were expected to be top five selections"—hyphen? Unsure, but it's not clear at the moment.
  9. Please, no "in order to". Just one word. I see another further down, too.
  10. "opt out", no hyphen—it's a verb, not a double adjective here (opt-out clause). And "alternatively" needs to go immediately before "opt out" or "either".
  11. "were signed by the Canucks to three-year contracts"—not idiomatic. Were they kids? Normally, you'd say "H and D signed up for three-year contracts with the Canucks", in a more equal relationship. Tony (talk) 09:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

PS and this nomination has languished here for nearly a month? Too long! Tony (talk) 09:38, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the input. I went ahead and addressed 1, 3, 5, 6 and 7. In regards to the rest of your suggestions though, I'm just not convinced that the current prose in question is necessarily wrong. If it was up to me, I'd simply leave it, but I likely wouldn't object if you went ahead and changed it yourself. Cheers. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 08:21, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Orlandkurtenback, if you haven't already, you should probably contact a copyeditor. These are just examples "from the top", so I'd assume that means the prose needs some fine-tuning throughout. Cheers! ceranthor 19:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
How do I go about doing that? Although the article's already been copyedited once by Steve Smith through this FAC nom. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 20:09, 21 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just contact a copyeditor. Tony knows precisely what he is talking about, so you should probably consult someone who hasn't seen the article before - maybe Resolute (who does hockey, I believe) or you can ask around? After reading over it, I'll throw a support behind it, though. ceranthor 01:39, 22 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I don't consider myself an expert copyeditor by any stretch of the imagination, but I did take a pass through the article, and may look again within a couple days. I do have a couple additional comments:
    It is stated that the Sedins signed a contract with the Canucks but returned to Sweden anyway. I am aware of how the rules allowed for this, but the statements are confusing as constructed.
    I agree with the issue of recentism on the 2009-10 season
    The transactions section doesn't offer much value, imo, as it is just a repeat of what is in the article body. Resolute 03:05, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the comments. I've added a mention in the article that the contract did not require them to begin playing immediately. Hope that addresses the first concern. In regards to recentism, I added a couple paragraphs of prose to Henrik's early career in Vancouver to try and balance the article out when the issue was first brought up by YellowMonkey. I'm just unsure of how to account for recentism any more given that the past season was a record-setting one. I'm open to any suggestions though. The only reason I have the transactions section in there is cause it's part of the MoS delineated in WP:Hockey. I'd like to keep it there for this reason, but I'm willing to part with it if you still think it's particulary unnecessary. Cheers. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 23:26, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I think it is compeltely unnecessary (and don't use it at all when I write player articles), but its use is not something I'd ever get hung up on. Just my personal opinion, and if you feel the transaction list is beneficial, keep it. Resolute 01:01, 26 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on 1a after taking a look through the changes since Tony's comment the other day and making a few edits myself. It's not a subject area I've dabbled much with, and I lack the time to do a full check on the other criteria (hence only the 1a support), but it doesn't seem to miss anything I'd be asking about, and a random check of some of the online sources didn't throw up any problems. Best, Steve T • C 14:11, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Orlandkurtenbach, can you please request an image review from an editor such as User:David Fuchs, User:Fasach Nua, User:Stifle, User:Awadewit, or User:Jappalang? The copyright status of the images needs to be checked. Karanacs (talk) 15:04, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Images seem to be in order:

SlimVirgin talk contribs 19:50, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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