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Wikipedia:Featured article review/The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask/archive3

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was kept by Casliber via FACBot (talk) 1:44, 8 November 2024 (UTC) [1].

The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

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Notified: Gary King, Pagrashtak, WP Video games, 2022-12-11

Review section

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Featured article that was first promoted back in December 2005 (current status is from 2008). This nearly two decade old featured article lacks citations in several areas, has a cleanup banner from as far back as November 2021 that addresses a lack of citations, some sources noted on the talk page are missing, and the article itself is largely abandoned. I also believe that it might violate the MOS:VG when it comes to the organization of the Reception section, and some images may not be necessary. No large efforts to improve this articles issues have occurred since they were pointed out, and all edits recently have been relatively small. I might not be too familiar with the featured article criteria, but I'm very certain that this article needs improvement and currently does not meet it. NegativeMP1 21:37, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm interested in working on this when I can. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Had a busy week last week, still working on this. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:08, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Marking as on my list to check over. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 17:11, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article definitely needs a lot of TLC...
  • Gameplay section is pretty haphazard, and does a bad job explaining the gameplay to someone who hasn't already played Ocarina of Time. I'm not sure the gameplay makes sense to split into subsections about the masks and time cycle, but that might be just a cosmetic rather than important organizational quibble.
  • The synopsis is much better than it was thanks to edits, but it still repeats itself a lot (the plight of the regions is mentioned in setting and again in the plot) and I think is missing a few details to make sense of it (why does Tatl have no other choice than to help Link?)
  • The Development section has some IMO improper use of sources to synthesize conjectures (like Ura Zelda becoming Master Quest) and generally feels pretty slight for such a recognized and important game.
  • Reception definitely needs beefing up and a rewrite. Likewise the Legacy needs a cleanup. Sourcing throughout is not up to modern standards (Screenrant refs, unreferenced statements, and the like.) Much closer to a B-class article than FA these days. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 12:07, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

FARC section

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Issues raised in the review section include sourcing and organization. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:19, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Some thoughts:

  • N-Sider is used in this article as is marked as unreliable at WP:VGRS
  • David Fuchs appears to have been questioned the use of Screenrant above
  • FAs should be using high-quality reliable sources, which is a stricter bar than basic reliability. What makes the following sources high-quality RS: wccftech (marked as unreliable at VGRS), Zelda Informer (also marked as unreliable at VGRS), Game Kudos (not at VGRS, which appears to be a sign of definite obscurity), WWG (seems to be associated with comicbook.com, which is marked as inconclusive at VGRS), Nintendo Everything (marked as unreliable at VGRS - current citation does not name the publisher), Escapist (VGRS notes that this has had issues with insufficient editorial oversight in the past - while this is outside of the unreliable time range, is this really a superior source for FA purposes?), Noisy Pixel (marked as unreliable at VGRS, again the publisher is not named in the citation)

None of these sources are used heavily, but that's still 9 sources there's some reason to have doubts about them being up to the FA standard. I think more sourcing work is needed here. Hog Farm Talk 00:28, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have replaced all the unreliable sources. The two Escapist articles are from known reliable game critics (Yahtzee Croshaw and Marty Sliva, formerly of IGN). They are high quality sources. Axem Titanium (talk) 09:09, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Clock town.ogg - licensing is problematic. The "own work" does really work because its a derivative copy of the video game music, which would be under copyright. I've nominated for deletion on Commons.
  • "Link in his Goron form. The time limit is displayed at the bottom of the screen." - it's unclear what time limit this is referring to

That's all that stands out to me but I'm not very familiar with video games. Hog Farm Talk 20:56, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing that out; I didn't even realize it was filed under a CC license. Definitely not appropriate for Commons. I edited the caption for clarity. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:24, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed the .ogg file for now per the deletion request; I think we can keep now. Hog Farm Talk 21:37, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comments and feedback! Axem Titanium (talk) 22:33, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • David Fuchs, any update on this? Nikkimaria (talk) 18:12, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The prose still needs some work; I've started doing some edits. I think the major outstanding issue for me is the gameplay section, which doesn't seem like it's a great introduction to the actual gameplay if you don't know what Ocarina of Time is and can backfill in the information. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 18:17, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @David Fuchs: It has been three months. Have you made much progress? QuicoleJR (talk) 15:03, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Haven't worked on it much at all, to be honest. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 15:30, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh I had completely forgotten about this (didn't get any pings?). What issues do you still have with the prose? I'll see what I can do about the Gameplay section when I have a spare moment this week. Axem Titanium (talk) 17:16, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Axem Titanium I think restructuring the gameplay section so it doesn't start with Ocarina (a game for which someone might have no frame of reference) would be a good start. The prose also flips between describing things in terms of what the player can do, and what Link can do—I think either is fine, but it needs to be consistent throughout. There's also some weird organization—ocarina songs for manipulating the three day cycle are mentioned under that subhead, which makes sense, but then other uses for the songs are discussed that have nothing to do with it (not sure the subhead needs to be there at all, but the organization could do with being a bit more thought-out. (I think the Jackson guitar thing should be cut entirely because it's irrelevant to understanding the gameplay as well.) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 16:24, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @David Fuchs Thanks for the comments. I made some changes to help clear that up. In terms of player vs. Link, I made some adjustments to ensure that "player" is only used for things that the player does (like save the game or solve a puzzle in their head) and Link is used for things that Link does (like swing a sword). Axem Titanium (talk) 22:30, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks Axem. I'm going to do another pass through and see if there's any sourcing that might help, then edit what's there. It's looking better. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 22:00, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @David Fuchs: Are you still working on this? @NegativeMP1: What concerns of yours remain unaddressed? Nikkimaria (talk) 17:45, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm going to be honest, I keep forgetting I even started this discussion. It's been over a year. There might be a couple of areas that could be a bit off, but from what I'm seeing right now, I think all of the concerns that I initially had when I made this review have been addressed. All the major blatant issues have been resolved, and the article is far better organized. I think it meets the current criteria, and I feel that this discussion can be closed. On a side note, it might be worth nominating this article for TFA next year, specifically on April 26, for its 25th anniversary. λ NegativeMP1 21:15, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @David Fuchs: given the above, are you satisfied with the article thus far (given we have two keeps) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:29, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Stray remaining thoughts:
    -The body is still missing release date info that's in the infobox (unreferenced), would also be a good place to stick it and make the "marketing campaign" not an orphan line.
    Forced to work together to solve the issue unclear what the issue is and why Tatl has to help Link.
    -Skull Kid makes amends with the fairies and Link, which he recognizes. it's unclear who is recognizing who, or why it's particularly notable if the Skull Kids recognizes Link. (Shouldn't he?)

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 18:02, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@David Fuchs someone changed the entire story section without discussion. I have reverted it to the previous version that does not contain those unclear passages. I added references for the release dates. Axem Titanium (talk) 08:05, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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