Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Italian orders of knighthood/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:19, 2 March 2010 [1].

List of Italian orders of knighthood

Nominator(s): Chrisieboy (talk) 22:58, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Featured list candidates/List of Italian orders of knighthood/archive2

I am re-nominating this for featured list because I feel it meets the criteria. Chrisieboy (talk) 22:58, 3 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support per the first nomination. I'm not in love with the lead but don't have a specific complaint. I would strike the "weak" if another reviewer helps to improve it. WFCforLife (talk) 01:20, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair, the lead has been substantially re-written since your original remarks. I think it is clear, consise English and that I have made every effort to address your comments. Chrisieboy (talk) 10:03, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've been asked to revisit this. It would be rude of me not to respond, but I don't see what more I can add. I support because I believe this meets the criteria. It's weak because I feel the lead, while adequate, is weak. If I felt I could contribute actionable suggestions to help improve the list I would do so, but writing is not my forté. WFCforLife (talk) 20:18, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - it didn't get answered in the last FLC but why are the terms abbreviated in the top section? Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 08:16, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry, I thought my previous answers covered this; essentially, it is an encyclopedia and they are commonly used. Chrisieboy (talk) 09:51, 4 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - Would it be possible for you to give me a few examples? Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 23:13, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - Examples of what exactly? Chrisieboy (talk) 23:16, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      - the abbreviations as you said "they are commonly used", so it shouldn't be hard to find examples. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 23:19, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        Google Cav. Berlusconi. Chrisieboy (talk) 00:12, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        I'm sorry but you'll have to provide links to these types of things, it does worry me of the Google Search of Cav. Gr. Croce considering the FLC is the first on the search and you say Commonly used, yet googling the other terms turns up no results for the abbreviated terms, I believe this could be very confusing for the reader. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 21:37, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        With respect, I don't think this is a serious point and I fail to see how it can be confusing when it clearly states (in parenthesis) that it is an abbreviation. Are you suggesting the whole word is prefixed in writing to a recipient's name Mister (or Mr.) Afro? Chrisieboy (talk) 23:54, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        If you're using Mr. as like a little poking fun type of thing then You can google it and see how commonly used it is, since thats your argument as to why the abbreviations are there in the first place, See Cav., Uff., Comm., Gr. Uff. and Cav. Gr. Croce and compare the difference. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 02:02, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        You have a point but these are very used in Italy, and in fact if you checked the italian google, the result is different. I would recommend keeping the abbreviations, as all languages do that.Mephiston999 (talk) 02:19, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(undent) I guess, though it could be explained in a way better fashion in the top. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 03:02, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Come on Afro, how can it be explained any more clearly than: Knight (Cavaliere abbreviated Cav.)? Chrisieboy (talk) 12:24, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Well for one the official name for Officer in Italian is "Ufficiale" as stated, shouldn't it be explained that Officer is the English equivalent instead of making the Italian the more secondary term? I think explaining more what the equivalents are would be a good expansion, that way you can still abbreviate the terms. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 19:20, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I am concerned that this list is not adequately referenced. For instance, the Order of the Roman Eagle and the Order of Vittorio Veneto are not referenced. The footnotes, too, are not referenced at all.—Chris!_c/t 21:46, 7 February 2010 (UTC) The footnotes are primary sources, they do not need further referencing. Chrisieboy (talk) 21:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Um. Where did you get the idea that primary sources do not need referencing? According to WP:PRIMARY, primary sources do need referencing in most cases. For example, note 4 says "Revived by Law No. 199 of 27 March 1952." But how can one know that this date is verified by simply reading this list? I am not an expert on sourcing, but this may warrant further discussion.—Chris!_c/t 22:05, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It refers to "All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims...", here they are "...used only to make descriptive statements that can be verified by any educated person without specialist knowledge." Chrisieboy (talk) 22:11, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Since I am no expert on this, I will leave this for others to decide. This why I start this as a comment and not an oppose.—Chris!_c/t 22:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues from the previous nomination have been adressed and i think the article now deserves promotion to FL status. Mephiston999 (talk) 09:59, 21 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Truco
Comments from Truco (talk · contribs) General Content needing checking with tools in toolbox checks out fine. Lead Below these are a number of other decorations, associated and otherwise, that do not confer knighthoods. -- I don't see the need for the 'these'--Truco ₅₀₃ 02:59, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply] Fixed Mephiston999 (talk) 10:52, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support--Truco ₅₀₃ 01:54, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment "There are currently five orders of knighthood " – "currently" is a vague and WP:DATED word; unless the number of orders changes constantly, it is best to remove the word altogether. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:56, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Fixed. Chrisieboy (talk) 20:58, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I've also moved the article to List of Italian orders of knighthood per WP:LISTNAME—this page is more of an annotated list briefly describing each order rather than a full-fledged article that goes into great detail about each one, such as Characters of Kingdom Hearts. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:09, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment problems with terminology:

national coat of arms - The national emblem of Italy (Italian: emblema della Repubblica italiana), although often referred to as a coat of arms (or stemma in Italian), it is technically an emblem as it was not designed to conform to traditional heraldic rules. Better is "national emblem".

Fixed.

Investiture - general term for the formal installation of an incumbent (heir, elect of nominee) in public office. I don't think that award of order of merit is public office.--Yopie (talk) 18:23, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Investiture is correct English usage. Chrisieboy (talk) 22:25, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.