Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2008 March 27

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March 27

A war between Japan and China, 1880-83?

I have discovered one line in a book which confuses me. The book is Love of the Samurai : a thousand years of Japanese homosexuality by Tsuneo Watanabe and Jun'ichi Iwata, the original Japanese of Iwata translated into French by Watanabe, and the whole thing translated from French to English by D. R. Roberts. The line, on pg. 122, is in a quoted paragraph, the citation of which reads:

Cited in Das Geschlechtsleben in Glauben, Sitte, Brauch und Gewohnheitsrecht der Japaner by Friedrich S. Krauss, Leipzig, 1910.

The line I am bothered by reads:

We can say, in fact, that in the homosexual liaison too, the old samurai spirit found exultant expression on the Manchu front (in the 1880-83 war between Japan and China), in a way that one would not have seen before 1868.

I have never heard of such a war. Did anything of the sort ever occur? Or is this just simply confusion on the part of Krauss, getting the dates of the First Sino-Japanese War mixed up? If so, though, I am surprised that Watanabe would not have added something along the lines of "[sic]" in the paragraph, and it surprises me that he would be so far, and to think that the war went on about twice as long as it really did. Could this have been simply a minor conflict?

I am a bit confused.

It ain't much, but this link offers the suggestion of conflict between Japan and China closer to the time you mention...1882-1885 in Korea. Given the reference to the "Manchu front", which I take to refer to Manchuria and therefore the Chinese border with Korea, I think this likely the referenced conflict. Brief mention of this conflict, at least the skirmishes in 1884, are available early in the First Sino-Japanese War article. Sorry I can't do better. --User:Jwrosenzweig editing as 71.231.197.110 (talk) 06:20, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Japan and Qing China were in constant conflict from the 1870s. In 1874, Japan made an incursion into Taiwan (Qing territory), meeting virtually no resistance, with the result of reparations paid by China. In 1875, Japan invaded Ryukyu (Qing vassal), with the Qing government refusing to send troops despite pleading by the Ryukyuans, with the result of Japanese annexation of Ryukyu in 1879. Also in 1875, Japan invaded Korea (Qing vassal), meeting little resistance and resulting in a treaty which proclaimed Korea's independence and autonomy from China, and the equal status of Korea and Japan.

In 1882, soldiers in the Korean capital revolted, mainly over unequal treatment of "new" (i.e. modern arms and training) and "old" troops. Japanese interests were attacked because Japan was intimately involved in the modernising attempts of the Korean regime. Korean ministers in Beijing requested Chinese help, which arrived in the form of an expeditionary force led by Yuan Shikai (later President and briefly self-crowned Emperor of China). Yuan quelled the rebellion, negotiated a treaty on behalf of Korea with Japan, and quickly became the power behind the throne, until the Japanese invasion of Korea in earnest from 1895.

My guess is that the 1880-1883 reference is an erroneous reference to the first Sino-Japanese war. There is a possibility that it refers to the Korean rebellion of 1882, but China was not really at war with Japan in that conflict. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:26, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

info on an artist

i have a small sculpture ( about 10 inches high and 12 inches long) it is of a roman soldier in a chariot with his helmet in his hand (maybe saluting the emperor). it also has two horses pulling the chariot. it is made of white marble, i think. there is a name on the base A. Giannetti. i was wondering if you had any info on this artist. i have tried for many months to find something and have not been successful. i have tried google,yahoo,and several libraries. i have even contacted the art department at both of our local colleges. no one seems to know anything about this artist. any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.194.37.231 (talk • contribs)

Hmmm, I immediately got results through Google with the search ""a. Giannetti" sculptor" and narrowed those results down by taking out a U.S. senator named John A. Giannetti and a dermatologist (here's the Google search I used): this appears to be a sculpture by the same artist being auctioned at a French gallery (you could call to ask); this is a different person inquiring about a sculpture they have, also seeking information; this page shows that there was at one time a horse statue by this artist being sold on ebay; here's an item being sold as a replica of a sculpture by this artist on ebay UK; and all this is from looking at just the first 60 results out of 187 unique hits.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:22, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

George Washington,Did he have investments in British Banks?

A friend of mine claims that G.W. had investments in British and European banks during revolutionary war.This was in case of an American defeat.I contend that G.W.(and other founding fathers) may have been hung if the Americans were defeated.Any savings or deposits surely would have been confiscated at the beginning of the war. Who is correct my friend or I? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.183.51.44 (talk) 03:12, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't know that he had a lot of loose liquid assets to be investing anywhere; he was a somewhat wealthy man after his marriage, but most of it was tied up in plantation land and slaves on the plantation land... AnonMoos (talk) 05:50, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I understood that his Great Grandfather was born in England and elements of his family would certainly have British Investments at that time. Possibly some of this remained and became his by inheritance rather than deliberate investments by George Washington personally.JonM267 (talk) 18:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I doubt that the administrative means were in place to freeze bank accounts back then. Unless someone had brought any such funds to the government's attention, they might have simply passed unnoticed. Luwilt (talk) 21:18, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Commonwealth war graves during WW2

How were these treated by the Germans after their occupation of Belgium and France? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wicky Witch (talk • contribs) 06:45, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Are you talking about the British Commonwealth? This only came into being after WWII. --ChokinBako (talk) 05:17, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

So an anacronism (and in any case you're wrong; the British Commonwealth officially came into being in 1926). I imagine the OP is talking about British and allied WWI graves in France (and I imagine the answer is that they didn't even think about them; why would they?). FiggyBee (talk) 05:23, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

They were, in general, treated with great respect. When Hitler visited the German cemetery at Langemarck in 1940 he also paid his respect to the Canadian memorial at Vimy en route, specifically to disprove British propaganda claims that Allied graves were being desecrated by German troops. These claims are traceable to such actions as the Germans had taken, but this was confined to removing offensive wording or imagery. The best example of this was the removal of the memorial to the Second Australian Division at Mont St Quentin, which featured a statue of a soldier bayoneting a German eagle. No graves were ever touched. Clio the Muse (talk) 03:16, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Centurion

I have an authentic heirloom, which is a roman centurion helmet, or head dress, how much would this be worth if I were to sell it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 13:28, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

However much a buyer is willing to pay for it. AnonMoos (talk) 14:40, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

It's also probably not authentic... Adam Bishop (talk) 15:05, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

He said it is an authentic heirloom, not an authentic centurion helmet. 206.252.74.48 (talk) 16:17, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, oops :) Adam Bishop (talk) 00:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Its value will depend very much on its condition, materials, quality, age, rarity, etc etc. Try looking on eBay for similar products and see what sort of price they are fetching, or take it to an antique shop and ask.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:48, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

If it is actually an authentic roman centurion helmet, you'd be better taking it to Christie's or Southerby's and not putting it on e-Bay. --ChokinBako (talk) 05:15, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Against the Ustase

I would be interested to know why and to what extent the Italians co-operated with the Chetniks against the Ustase in the Second World War. 217.44.78.6 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 13:48, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Not to any great extent, considering that the Italians were nominally on the opposite side from the Chetniks, and the Ustaše were their allies. But the Ustaše militias were so ill-disciplined, and so murderous, that the Chetniks entered into active collaboration with Italian forces in the early days of the occupation in an attempt to restore order in parts of Bosnia-Herzegovina. Clio the Muse (talk) 03:05, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Shia majority

Besides Iran, is there any Muslim country whose state religion is Shi'a Islam? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Don Mustafa (talk • contribs) 15:45, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Our article on Shia Islam indicates that (apart from Iran and a sizeable part of Iraq) Azerbaijan is predominantly Shiite. The split given in the article on the country is 85% Shiites and 15% Sunnites. If Islam is defined as a state religion I could not find out. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 16:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

http://www.azerb.com/az-reli.html says, "In the sixteenth century, the first shah of the Safavid Dynasty, Ismail I (r. 1486-1524), established Shia Islam as the state religion, although large numbers of Azeris remained followers of the other branch of Islam, Sunni." The current situation is described as "Article 18 of the Azeri constitution, mandating no state religion, allows for all faiths to practice their religion freely."

--Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 16:43, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

There is also our article on state religion, which has a map indicating that Iran is the sole country which has established Shia Islam as the state religion. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 17:04, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

The state religion of Egypt used to be Shi'ism...but that was 800 years ago... Adam Bishop (talk) 07:23, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

US Medal of Honour

I have recently read that a British Special Forces NCO from the SBS was awarded the US Medal of Honour. I understand this related to an action in Afghanistan where his patrol went to the location of a prison breakout saving the lives of US military and CIA personnel. I did not think that this decoration could be awarded to non-US service personnel. Is this possible?JonM267 (talk) 16:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Our article on the Medal of Honor (note the spelling - it's a proper name so it should be spelled without the "u") says that only members of the US military are eligible. Do you remember the person's name? --NellieBly (talk) 16:44, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Our list of Medal of Honor recipients makes it pretty clear that this is not the case. There are, however, a few awards of a more flexible nature with similar names to them. That could be what was awarded in this case. — Lomn 18:16, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for the incorrect spelling (being British I tend to fall into the error of typing in English). Mistake noted. The event in question was in Afghanistan, 2001, at Qala-i-Jangi fort. The NCO was a member of the Special Boat Service (similar to US Navy SEAL personnel). His eam of 6 was by pure coincidence en-route from a patrol and were the closest support available. Prisoners broke out and captured armoury but contained within the compound. US Personnel either killed or pinned down. SBS team scaled outer wall and gave covering fire whilst NCO went over wall to carry out injured CIA officer. At that time the SBS were operating under direct US Command. Event was reported in The Times (London). However as no member of the SAS or SBS have ever been awarded the Victoria Cross (generally due to lack of witnesses) I would assume the report of the award was in error.JonM267 (talk) 18:32, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Did you mean to say you fall into the habit of typing in British regional dialect? Edison (talk) 00:20, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

This obituary for Sergeant 'Scruff' McGough - who appears to be the soldier in question - from the Daily Telegraph of 24 July 2006 would seem to make it clear that whilst it was rumoured that a Medal of Honor was to be awarded, this did not in fact happen. (Found by Googling "Medal of Honor SBS"). Valiantis (talk) 01:52, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I've just noticed that the above obituary is quoted as a reference in the Special Boat Service article. Valiantis (talk) 01:59, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I searched on "medal" plus the name of the battle, and the top hits I found gave the sergeant's name as Paul McGeogh. This includes an obituary in the Sun that also claims he receives the medal, as well as several other sites. But of course the Telegraph is a more credible source, so I guess McGough is the right spelling. The confusion may arise because, I also find, there is an Australian war reporter named Paul McGeogh.

On this British Army web page a Sergeant Paul McGough, retired from the Royal Marins (not SBS) is identified as receiving some sort of honor; it's not clear to me if that's the same man.

The SBS has its own web site (bizarrely placed under .co.uk instead of .mod.uk), and this page on the site about the battle says that "the SBS team leader was put up to be awarded" the (so-called) Congressional Medal of Honor, but "the then UK Secretary Of Defence, Jeff Hoon, quashed the nomination for undisclosed reasons." --Anonymous, 02:19 UTC, March 28, 2008.

It's not bizarre at all - that website is "not affiliated with or endorsed by the SBS". FiggyBee (talk) 02:30, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction -- I missed the illegible fine print where it says so. --Anon, 22:00 UTC, March 29, edited later.

Economy and outsourcing

How is recession to do with outsourcing?

Officially the United States is not yet in a recession, I believe, but I assume you mean the recession many economists are predicting for the US at the moment. The answer is that it doesn't have very much to do with outsourcing, but is mainly caused by the crisis in the financial sector. It is difficult for companies to find investors, who are worried about all the bad loans around (especially because of the subprime mortgage crisis, during which apparently safe securities often turn out to be extremely risky after all). As a result overall economic activity may decline: a recession. DAVID ŠENEK 18:23, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

The only arguable (very arguable) effect could be the result of a completely collapsed dollar value - which nobody is predicting. If, for example, every country we outsource to had a huge upswing in their economy and the our money became so devalued that it was below theirs, it would not be profitable to outsource because it would cost more to pay foreign workers to do the same job. Also, other countries would look at our country as a good country to outsource to. Since the chance of this happening is about 0.00%, it is ridiculous to suggest that there is some relation between outsourcing and a recession. -- kainaw™ 20:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Native Indian population of Americas

Of the total 900 million population of North and south America, how much is Native Indian population(excluding people from the south Asian country India). If some native Indian has married a white and have a child, lets calculate that child as 0.5 population. Calculating like that, what would be the population... any idea...?

Best I can find in a quick search is this page from the International Labour Organization which gives a *1990* figure of 41,977,600. The number today could be higher. (For example, that page estimates 350,000 in Canada, while the latest Canadian census says 1.2 million.)

The UN says worldwide there are about 300 million indigenous peoples living in more than 70 countries and 70 per cent live in Asia. So your number will fall somewhere between 42 and 90 million, I reckon.

P.S. You may find that your definition of indigenous is unlikely to be the same as that used by official census-takers, and the definition of indigenous varies from census to census anyway. WikiJedits (talk) 18:36, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Working out to decimal places the "mixed bloodedness" of a person would very often prove impossible -- there have been non-natives (not just "whites") in the Americas for over 500 years. You're not going to be able to find complete records with the kind of detail you are asking for. Pfly (talk) 23:27, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps DNA group studies (like the The Genographic Project) will be able answer this more precisely in the future. We'll never know for sure about the "mixed bloodedness" of many historic individuals—no one can say with certainty how much European ancestry, if any, guys like Tecumseh or Joseph Brant or Little Turtle had—but perhaps we'll get a better overall picture of North American ancestry eventually. —Kevin Myers 01:46, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Arts and Crafts

I was at a meeting the other day and had heard of a new Arts and Crafts discipline. I did not get the correct spelling, but phonetically it sounded like "emagaroomi". I know I butchered the spelling, but I'm trying to do some research on this. Anything would help.

Thanks Aphs81 (talk) 19:36, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Macrame, maybe, pronounced MACK-ruh-may. [Undoubtedly what Deor said.] --Milkbreath (talk) 19:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Macaroni is the ancient Etruscan craft of knitting with oodles of noodles.  :) --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:13, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Amigurumi, I'll wager. Deor (talk) 22:40, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Religion

are there any religions whos religious mythology, or particularly, dieties, came into direct contradiction with (scientific) understanding of the world and suffered massive credibility loss, or do they all adapt quicker than this can occur? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.159.69.149 (talk) 19:40, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

To the extent that the drift to secularism arises out of an inability to swallow faith-based explanations of natural phenomena, all religions suffer in this respect. Specific issues, such as the roman catholic views on condoms in the context of the prevalence of HIV, illustrate times when arguably the church has moved insufficiently fast to stem further credibility losses. But I cannot think of a religion which crashed and burned as a result of the uptake of scientific notions. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:01, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Many people would doubt the science rather than their religion.  --Lambiam 22:29, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I never doubt my religion. Atheism is infallible. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 00:46, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Atheism is NOT a religion! --S.dedalus (talk) 07:10, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

That depends. Is your atheism a belief unsupported by evidence that there are no gods, or is it a lack of belief in the existance of gods? --Carnildo (talk) 00:14, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Personally my atheism is a disbelief of anything unsupported by evidence (rational atheism). Your statement is flawed however, i.e. all religion is illogical belief, but not all illogical belief is religion. --S.dedalus (talk) 00:34, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Nothing is infallible. Except, in theory, God. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:30, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

My computer is an Atheist but admits that it is possible God is infallible since God can reduce more variables having more states to minimum form in less time; an infinite number of variables and states in an instant of time to be exact. 71.100.7.155 (talk) 01:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Religion is an umbrella term denoting the worship of k Gods, where k can have the value 0, 1 or n, (in words: atheism, monotheism or polytheism).

Stating that atheism is not a religion is equivalent to pontificating that zero is not a number, nihilism is not a philosophy and atheism is an oxymoron.

Apart from that, my comment was meant to be an absurdist joke. But then, one must apparantly expect the Spanish Inquisition to monitor the WP:RD to catch the odd heretic and drag them off to the barbecue. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 08:19, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I consider religion to be something you have to believe in regard to your existence, which you simply can not know. Thus, even atheism is only a belief and not a known. My computer says that man created God so man would have an explanation as to who or what created him. I have no problem with that. In fact I define God as the only entity who can accomplish exactly what my computer suggests would define God, i.e., the first and only entity with the capacity to reduce an infinite number of logical equations, having an infinite number of variables with an infinite number of states each to minimum form instantly, which my computer says neither it or its relatives will ever be able to do, nor mankind or society or any other entity in or not in the universe.

The difference between myself and my computer is that I can and do believe such an entity exists by definition alone, although I lack any proof of it otherwise. 71.100.0.214 (talk) 11:02, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

You may be interested in the article on the Historicity of the Book of Mormon.--droptone (talk) 11:52, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Interesting... I've always had this vision of an ancient hot air goat skin balloon at the time when Egyptian pyramids were the zeitgeist, sailing over the ocean only to land on the shores of South or Central America with passengers wanting only to continue their zeitgeist lifestyle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.100.0.214 (talk) 16:41, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Huh? Wrad (talk) 20:28, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Although many have tried to discredit the Book of Mormon, it would be a bit of a stretch to say that credibility is a big problem in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's the fastest growing Christian Church in the world. That church isn't going to die anytime soon, and they haven't really "adapted" to what science believes either. The fact is, it's a matter of faith, and a lot of people believe it. In my experience, there are many people who, if they want to know about God, ask God about it, not science. Again, it's all a matter of perspective. Wrad (talk) 15:16, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Haha. Another thought. In order to have "massive credibility loss" as regards "(scientific) understanding of the world", you'd have to have it in the first place! The Book of Mormon has never had scientific credibility in anything more than a minority of academic circles. It has no credibility to lose in that regard. However, not everyone is an academic or respects what they think, especially about religion, thus, a religion can still thrive.

Science demands proof. Religion doesn't. For religious persons, credibility comes from faith, not science. It's all how you look at it. Wrad (talk) 20:28, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Kenya - sustainable development project

I'm visiting Africa especially Kenya and i would like to use some cash i have been saving to help the youth there.I'm a computer guy and i dont want to give the cash to a charitable organisation.i want to actully participate in helping the kenyans.I want My own project to create positive change in the environment. How can I foster sustainable development in a community.i know i cant change the whole country but just a few people.Something clever,something different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.220.113.117 (talk) 20:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

am targeting the youth —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.220.113.117 (talk) 20:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Title added --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi 41.220, it's lateral but, illusionists Siegfried and Roy came up with a clever idea around their expertise: the College of Magic in Capetown, South Africa[1], for "social upliftment". There's something healing and sustaining about fun and skills combined. Julia Rossi (talk) 22:29, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

You may consider supplying a school with a number of OLPC notebooks. Check http://laptop.org/ (OLPC Foundation, P.O. Box 425087 , Cambridge, Massachusetts 02142, U.S.A.) for options to participate.

That way you can also use your own expertise on your visit to Kenya. Good luck, --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 22:45, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Famous Canadian Color guard photograph

Hi. In this article, a scene being shot for the film State of Play is described, featuring a marching band and an orange and cream-clad color guard performing complex choreography with rifles in the background. As the article describes: "[Director] Macdonald's purpose with the band and the Color guard is to recreate a famous photograph - a Canadian photograph [...] taken in the 1970s that featured majorettes twirling guns." My question is, of course, which "famous" photograph are they talking about? Macdonald goes on to talk about the themes which such an image represents in relation to the film, so I think it would more than qualify for fair use in the State of Play article. Thanks, Steve ^{T • C} 22:23, 27 March 2008 (UTC)