Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/September 2012

Talk & archives for WP Japan
Project talk 2006 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2007 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2008 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2009 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2010 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2011 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2012 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2013 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2014 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2015 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2016 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2017 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2018 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2019 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2020 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2022 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 2023 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Task force talk/archives ↔ Baseball (1) Bibliography (1) ↔ Cinema (1) ↔ CJKV (1) ↔ Districts and municipalities (1) Gaijin tarento (1) ↔ Military history (1, 2, 3) Music (1) Mythology (1, 2, 3, 4) Owarai (1) Politics (1) Prefectures (1) Royalty & nobility (1) Science & technology (1) Shinto (1) ↔ Tokyo (1) ↔ Transwiki ↔ = joint task force
Old notice board All of 2004 Jan–Mar 2005 Apr–Jun 2005 Jul–Oct 2005 Nov–Dec 2005 Jan–Feb 2006 Feb–May 2006 Jun–Dec 2006 Jan–Jun 2007 Jun 2007 – Sep 2008
Related talk/archives Anime and manga (index) Hello! Project (1) Pokémon (index, PAC (1, 2), PAC 2) Sumo (1, 2, 3) Square Enix (index) Tokusatsu (index) Trains (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Search the archives:
V·T·E

Japanese idol groups category

The category Category:Japanese idol groups was nominated for deletion. Please come and participate in the deletion discussion. --Moscowconnection (talk) 02:18, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Sanctions against Japan redirect

Resolved

I was going to create Sanctions against Japan as a redirect, but I can't find a good target. Any Ideas? Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 20:35, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

If you can't think of a page it should point to then you shouldn't make the redirect.—Ryulong (琉竜) 20:48, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

I agree. Until (and if) a target that would be better then the search page (which I found to be almost useless in this case) is found, this should not be created. I was surprised that I had trouble finding good target, this pretty important point in W.W.2 and Japanese history. I thought the WikiProject Japan people would have a far easier time finding a good target then I would.

I'm axially quite surprised this doesn't exist as either an article or a redirect, we have articles on the sanctions against Iraq and Iran. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 21:23, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Why would you consider creating it if you don't know where to put it?—Ryulong (琉竜) 00:54, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

I thought I'd easily be able to find an article, or a section of an article (or other appropriate target) about the sanctions. I'm having trouble doing that, so I thought the WikiProject Japan people would be able to do that far more easily then I would.

I think we may have a misunderstanding. If you thought I going to create a redirect without a target, I'm not, and I didn't mean to imply I would. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:23, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

A few suggestions, some or none of which might be helpful:

• Aftermath of World War II#Japan
• Occupation of Japan
• Far Eastern Commission

Beyond that, I haven't a clue. Good luck with it. Evanh2008 ^{(talk|contribs)} 01:31, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

No. I am inquiring why you would consider creating a redirect if you have nothing in mind to use the redirect for. You don't come up with a search term that you have no idea what the result would be and then try to figure out what that term could be used for. You work the other way around. You have an article and then you think of feasible search terms to point to it. Your logic is entirely backwards here.—Ryulong (琉竜) 01:32, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

I do have something in mind to use the redirect for. Before American involvement in the Pacific War, America had placed economic sanctions agent Japan. I'd redirect this to the article or section (or other appropriate target) about those sanctions, but I'm having trouble finding it. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:59, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

I believe this is the closest thing we have to a detailed discussion of those sanctions (assuming you and I are talking about the same sanctions). Evanh2008 ^{(talk|contribs)} 02:07, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Unless someone has a better idea, I support Evanh2008's Idea to target this to Pacific War#Tensions between Japan and the Western powers. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 02:35, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

I'll go ahead and create the redirect. Thanks for the help Evanh. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 17:45, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Suspicious repetitive phrase

Hello, I was just fixing up some typos when I noticed I was coming across a similar phrase on several pages, all of them Japanese politicians:

"He was a supporter of right-wing filmmaker Satoru Mizushima's 2007 revisionist film The Truth about Nanjing, which denied that the Nanking Massacre ever occurred."

I worry that this is some vandalism or other bad behavior, but knowing nothing about Japanese politics, I cannot judge. Can you check into this? You can find several of the pages by looking at my user contributions page. Thanks! Terrek (talk) 00:12, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Operation Downfall FAR

I have nominated Operation Downfall for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. PumpkinSky talk 16:14, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Japanese song titles

Wikipedia is supposed to give information that is accurate, but when the rules do not allow song titles to be written as they are supposed to be, the information becomes inaccurate (Example: "Best: Second Session" should be "BEST ~second session~"). Though not in the URL, but on the page itself. To deny titles being styled as such, it's incorrect. Japan artists specifically design their titles to be written a certain way.

Xenobia4 (talk) 18:38, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

This should be discussed on WT:MOS-JA.—Ryulong (琉竜) 20:06, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

It contravenes MOS:TM, you should discuss it at WT:MOS instead of MOS-JA -- 76.65.131.248 (talk) 01:36, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

List of Japanese inventions

Someone removed an entire article, or removed entries with an illegitimately added {cn}. Please take a look at an ongoing discussion.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 03:28, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Japanese-speaking admin requested to deal with time-wasting hoaxer

Could a Japanese-speaking admin please speedy delete the hoax article Sokkupapu, its redirect Sokkupapu Potato Snack, and also the time-wasting Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sokkupapu? I have tagged it for speedy deletion as a blatant hoax, but I fear a non-Japanese-speaking admin may be duped by the pseudo-Japanese name and list of Japanese "sources" which do not of course mention this snack.

Following his debut at Wikipedia:Help desk yesterday, it appears that User:AitarouOmutsu-TUY is an account created by someone clearly familiar with Wikipedia editing (AfD creation etc) and is being used purely for time-wasting hoaxes and vandalism. --DAJF (talk) 00:27, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

The MS Paint "photograph" looks like it shoul be proof enough without a Japanese language speaker.—Ryulong (琉竜) 00:30, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Category move discussion

Recently a number of categories, including one related to this project, were moved without any discussion. The category related to this project is Category:Japanese television navigational boxes, which was moved to Category:Japan television navigational boxes. The moves have been opposed and a new discussion is in progress at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 September 17#Television navigational boxes. --AussieLegend (talk) 17:33, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Assistance requested

Hi,

At the FAC for Phallus indusiatus, a request has been made to add the kanji for the Japanese common name Kinugasatake. I'm assuming from the Japanese version of the article that this is 衣笠茸. I was wondering if a native speaker could scan the references for that article and suggest if one of them might be appropriate to reliably source this name. Or perhaps someone here has a Japanese-English dictionary that might do the trick? Sasata (talk) 05:43, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't think you really need to source a foreign language name. It simply exists in that language as such.—Ryulong (琉竜) 06:16, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

• There's a widely-used advertising-supported dictionary here. As discussed here, there are several language templates such as template:nihongo (and template:lang) for embedding foreign languages in English Wikipedia. LittleBen (talk) 06:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies; I've added the kanji. Have bookmarked the dictionary site for future reference. Sasata (talk) 06:53, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Tu

I realize that there is no "tu" in Japanese and that there is some freedom in transcription of foreign names. See for instance the transcription of "Arthur" in ja:アルトゥル・ショーペンハウアー and ja:アルトゥール・ルービンシュタイン. But what is "トゥー"? Is that an extra long "tō" sound. How would you represent this in romaji? bamse (talk) 08:13, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

The Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology has for many years now suggested various katakana digraphs to better represent the phonemes found in other languages. トゥ is the one to represent the sound English speakers would recognize in the word "too". In the Hepburn romanization system used by Wikipedia, トゥ is tu, so トゥー is tū. And those names would be Aruturu Shōpenhauā (using the German "Arthur" as the source pronunciation) and Arutūru Rūbinsutain (using the Polish "Artur" as the source pronunciation).—Ryulong (琉竜) 08:58, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation. In fact I had misread it to include a large (not small) ウ. What other digraphs exist for foreign words which are otherwise not used in the Japanese language? PS: Haven't noticed a difference in pronunciation of "Artur/Arthur" between German and Polish, but will pay attention to it. bamse (talk) 15:49, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Hepburn romanization#For extended katakana lists all the possible combinations used by MEXT, ANSI, BSI, and in an old version of a similar formatting style. There are, however, other choices, such as ホァ being Hwa, used to approximate Chinese's Hua sound.—Ryulong (琉竜) 21:21, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. One last question, are those extended katakana (including their pronunciation) well known, taught at school,... ? Or are they only known by Japanese who study a foreign language for instance? bamse (talk) 21:51, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

That I do not know.—Ryulong (琉竜) 22:11, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

They are well-enough known that they do not need to be taught; after all, katakana characters make the only sound they can make, in all instances (ヘ and ハ particles and old kanazukai excluded). This doesn't preclude the continued use of rival katakana spellings, since in many cases there are different ways to approximate the same sounds. Dekimasuよ! 05:23, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. bamse (talk) 10:08, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Buji monks

Notable? Can the article be expanded? Only one source and I can't find any other on the web, but I don't grok Japanese. Tijfo098 (talk) 07:03, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Not at all. 無事 is a common word. Even in ja dictionary, there's no mention about monks. Buddism is not popular in Okinawa. See Ryukyuan religion. The article seems to be a possible hoax. Oda Mari (talk) 08:53, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

I checked the reference - it's genuine, but it's būji not buji and the Japanese characters are not given, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 09:24, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

You can get a couple more hits by googling "booji okinawa"; according to hit1 (lexicon) it's the Okinawan equivalent of bōzu (坊主), Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 09:47, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

I see 坊主 google-tanslates to "Buddhist priest". The Japan encyclopedia cited in the article actually starts with "Buji: General name given to Buddhist monks in the Ryukyu Islands." It seems Buddhist monks were disliked by local population around 1600 because they were doing funeral rituals(?) That doesn't jibe well with what an Okinawan history book says about the same period, [1]: after discussing the introduction of some militant forms of Buddhism to the island in 1603 (none of which were called Buji), it says "The Okinawans as a whole continued to be tolerant of all organized religions, if not generally indifferent to them." So it's rather unclear what that "Buji" entry was talking about. I conclude it's a dictdef combined with a minuscule topic in Okinawan history. Not a good article. The vague event around 1600 can be mentioned somewhere else, preferably from a source that explains it more clearly. Tijfo098 (talk) 11:40, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Japanese Movie Database

Please come participate in the discussion at Talk:Japanese Movie Database#JMDB. Thanks! ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 00:27, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Ichiro's birthplace

FYI

There is a discussion regarding conflicting sources on Ichiro Suzuki's birthplace at Talk:Ichiro_Suzuki#Ichiro.27s_birthplace_and_hometown.—Bagumba (talk) 02:34, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Son Goku naming

Hi! In light of the naming dispute involving Son Goku of Dragon Ball, I did some searches for English RSes that mention the full name Son Goku. I found quite a few: Talk:Goku#Reliable_sources_in_English_using_.22Son_Goku.22 WhisperToMe (talk) 03:05, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Category:Old provinces of Japan

Category:Old provinces of Japan, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you.. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:47, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Yokohama air crash

I just started the article on the 1977 Yokohama F-4 crash. Could someone please add the Japanese name for the disaster and link to the article in the Japanese Wikipedia? Thank you. Cla68 (talk) 23:31, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Done.—Ryulong (琉竜) 23:41, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Cla68 (talk) 23:42, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Should Empress Jingu be included in Template:Monarchs of Japan?

I see that the English template includes her, while the templates in Chinese and Japanese Wikipedia do not include. --Inspector (talk) 02:12, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I think it should, since she was historically considered a monarch, until Meiji revisions. -- 70.24.245.122 (talk) 04:55, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

So, which view should we take for present? In the Chinese article I mentioned that Dai Nihonshi, Nihon Shoki and Kojiki refutes the idea that she should be considered as a monarch, not only after Meiji period. I am also interested about what are the views that she should be included, as this was not referenced in the Chinese article.--Inspector (talk) 15:55, 30 September 2012 (UTC)