Talk:Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls

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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on July 15, 2007, July 15, 2008, July 15, 2009, and July 15, 2010.

Old comments

a mass is not a service... i fixed that mistake.

roger - a mass is not a service. i fixed that mistake.

name

The complete name of the church is Basilica di San Paolo Fuori le Mura and thus should be moved from "Saint Paul outside the walls" to the more proper "Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls." --Gerald Farinas 16:49, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Please move it, if there are no objections. --Panairjdde 10:19, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Since there are no objections, I'm moving this page to Basilica di San Paolo fuori le Mura. :: Salvo (talk) 02:39, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I do oppose the move. English language media appear to use the English name "Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls" much more than the Italian name. We should stay with the most common name in English, per policy. Jonathunder 15:17, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Someone should finally work up a naming convention for Italian churches, IMO. —Nightst a llion (?) 09:48, 9 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Someone should finally work up a naming convention for titles of pages on English Wiki. Keep it in English, and reword the introductory sentence. "San Paulo fuori le Mura - known in English as" uh, the Italian should, if anything, be the sidenote. The Jackal God 23:32, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It absolutely should be moved. Or Santa Maria Maggiore and San Lorenzo and who knows which others should be moved back. It makes no sense to not have a convention and stick to it. Personally, i would be in favour of going with the Italian names; but if that's not agreeable to all, then English; but let's stick to one language. Cheers, Lindsay 17:15, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In an English-language encyclopedia, one uses English unless the foreign word (e.g. Notre Dame cathedral, Paris) is well-established. It's not idiomatic in English to begin with "Basilica of". The commonest expression is "St Paul's Outside the Walls" just as other idiomatic forms are "St Peter's Basilica" or "St Peter's, Rome", "St John Lateran" and "St Mary Majors".

spelling and grammar

It needs a clean up. Can it be marked with a suitable banner?

Italian government

Great article, overall. But I have one quibble. The article says:

On July 15, 1823 a fire...resulted in the almost total destruction of the basilica.... The work on the principal facade, looking toward the Tiber, was completed by the Italian Government, which declared the church a national monument. The basilica was reopened in 1840...

So far as I'm aware, there was no "Italian government" in 1823 or even 1840. The unification of Italy didn't occur until decades later. Does anyone know the source for this apparent error? Will Beback talk 07:24, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I found it. The material is a direct copy from the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia:

The work on the principal facade, looking toward the Tiber, was completed by the Italian Government, which declared the church a national monument. [1]

I'm mystified that a 1913 book would be so inaccurate about the Italian history of the previous century. And I'm disappointed that this was copied without attribution, which is plagiarism even if the book is out of copyright. Will Beback talk 07:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't mean the CathEnc is wrong. It can also be that, well: the work on the principal facade, looking toward the Tiber, was indeed completed by the Italian goverment, and that the Italian government did indeed declare the Church a national monument. Even though it was reopened much before in 1840. Just that the sentences come after each other doesn't mean the events did, if that isn't said. After all, over the Meditarranean in Barcelona there is a church which has been opened already even though there is quite a bit of work on the facades to be finished.--2001:A61:20A8:CF01:A412:CC9F:A43E:74B7 (talk) 23:17, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Requested move 3 July 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved (non-admin closure) ~SS49~ {talk} 15:05, 10 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls → Basilica of Saint Paul outside the walls – WP:NATURALDISAMBIGUATION per plain English grammar, in equivalence with how rendered in all other languages. PPEMES (talk) 18:15, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe this is just me, but I fail to see an explanation of why this should be moved. English naming conventions are clear that all significant words besides short grammatical articles should be capitalized (usually less than four letters); this is not the case in many other languages. "Outside" is not a short article. Absent further explanation, I oppose. Ergo Sum 20:00, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Because this is a specific place, it is a proper noun and should be capitalized the original way. Therefore, my vote is oppose. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 03:31, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This is English, not other languages. We capitalise proper names. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:20, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as per the above. Based on recent track record, the nom seems to have a problem with the concept of proper names.Ingratis (talk) 00:04, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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