Talk:Frankenstein's monster

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Alternative names for the Monster[edit]

The reason I removed "sometimes 'the fiend' or 'the creature'" from the initial description of the monster is that, out of context, no one would know you meant Frankenstein's Monster if you talked about simply the Fiend or the Creature. It's true that these words (uncapitalised) are how he is usually referred to throughout the novel, so I put a note in to that effect.

I have seen "Frankenstein's Creature" and "the Frankenstein Monster" in other places, so I put them back in. Hope this seems reasonable. Robin Johnson 08:36, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Frankenstein is not the name of Frankenstein's Monster. I'm just trying to make that clear. 70.69.229.164 23:06, 30 October 2007 (UTC)Proper[reply]

Frankenstein IS the name of the creature, who for all ethical and legal purposes is Victor Frankenstein's son. It is only the character, Victor Frankenstein, in his first person narrative, who refuses to acknowledge his name. This contrast between Shelley's title of the book(she could have called it "Victor Frankenstein", but she didn't) and the fact that Victor Frankenstein refuses to acknowledge his child, is the central conflict and metaphor of the novel. Armadillo Ocean (talk) 12:06, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The monster considered Victor Frankenstein to be his father. In most European cultures (including Switzerland and Germany), the father's name is used for his children. So, although the monster is never explicitly named in Shelley's novel, calling him "Frankenstein" seems entirely appropriate. Additionally, there is a tradition of calling things after their creator; a painting known as a Rembrandt, a car known as a Ford, a guitast called Fender, etc. So it's perfectly normal to call the monster Frankenstein. 172.58.219.74 (talk) 16:22, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is "Frankenstein" really incorrect?[edit]

I recently edited the opening section of this article, which stated that it was "incorrect" that the monster was called Frankenstein. While I agree that it should not be called Frankenstein -- because that name usually refers to Victor -- the monster is, in many ways, Victor's child. If this is the case, its surname should, logically, be Frankenstein, should it not? Luna ibis 01:40, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is my belief, and the belief of many, that calling the monster as “Frankenstein” is not incorrect. It is colloquially used to refer to the monster by most people and has been for decades. I would also point to “Bride of Frankenstein”, “Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man”, “Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein”, etc. as prominent examples of this. I’ve read the book and of course it doesn’t apply there, but in many adaptations and certainly the popular consciousness it does. Willhohenstein (talk) 20:14, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comedic portrayals[edit]

The list of portrayals features primarily serious performances. Bur what about comedic versions of the monster? For example, Phil Hartman on Saturday Night Live and Fred Gwynne (and successors) as Herman Munster in The Munsters (and later revivals). True, in those two cases they are parodying a specific version of the Monster (Karloff's, with Hartman taking his cue from the infamous "Monster speaks" sequence in Bride of Frankenstein), but they are still based on the character. Jerry O'Connell later went on to play a non-comedic version of Herman for the TV movie Mockingbird Lane. Should these also be listed? 68.146.52.234 (talk) 16:09, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Herman Munster is not Frankenstein's Monster. It is not a portrayal of Shelley's character, it is a portrayal of a character derived from Shelley's character. Not the same thing at all. Hartman's role is sometimes named "Frankenstein", but it is not a portrayal of Shelley's character, it is a parody of it. I think the list of portrayals is already a bit of an example farm, there's no need to loosen the definition to include more. 12.233.147.42 (talk) 01:25, 21 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Names[edit]

I think it would be good to move the section on names higher in the article, so that it's the first section after the lead. Then I suggest moving all but the first paragraph of the lead into the beginning of that sectionAnythingyouwant (talk) 20:14, 27 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and did this.Anythingyouwant (talk) 03:05, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe move to "Frankenstein's creature" ?[edit]

If I understand the story right, the entire point is that Victor Frankenstein is the monster, and not the creature. ♆ CUSH ♆ 01:23, 18 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nah. Referring to the character as "Frankenstein's monster" is well established. --tronvillain (talk) 03:21, 18 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Other Media section[edit]

The other media section includes examples that should be in the portrayals section which lists one-off TV appearances, specifically the Fables and Librarians appearances. The portrayals list was missing Lon Chaney's infamous live TV performance from 1952, which I added. 50.66.121.20 (talk) 14:37, 29 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What about Toho's Frankenstein? ZorahErso (talk) 13:34, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2021[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

‹ The template Edit semi-protected is being considered for merging. ›

Someone keeps making an inaccurate change to the page for “Frankenstein’s Monster” and now they’ve locked it. It needs to be unlocked so this can be fixed. 76.82.42.150 (talk) 05:51, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. Cannolis (talk) 06:14, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A falsehood is locked in the page.[edit]

Someone keeps making an inaccurate change to the page and now they’ve locked it. It needs to be unlocked so this can be fixed. 76.82.42.150 (talk) 05:53, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, I didn't lock the page. Secondarily, the only inaccurate change was the one you persistently added. It's not always erroneous to call the monster "Frankenstein." Here's just one example: who is the Bride of Frankenstein the bride of? The monster, not the doctor. And yet she's called the Bride of Frankenstein. You see? Willhohenstein (talk) 08:17, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Use of "erroneously" in lead[edit]

Thread retitled from "Edit war".

Slightly disappointing that we're edit warring over a single word... I've fully protected the article so y'all can do the discuss part of WP:BRD ~TheresNoTime ^{(to explain!)} 19:34, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. The single word in this case completely changes the meaning of the sentence, but this should be resolved properly so I apologize for my part in this. Willhohenstein (talk) 20:05, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to find a middle ground to try and settle it earlier, but the IP unfortunately seemed to not be having any of it. What should be done with this debate? It's been going on for about a month now, it seems? (Still a little new to Wikipedia, so I apologize if I overstep any bounds) --Aziarynn28 (talk) 15:04, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Aziarynn28: Totally not overstepping any bounds! So it looks like the IP involved has been blocked until the 6th for their role in this dispute. The hope would be that when they are unblocked they will come to this talk page and talk about the wording of the lede in a civil fashion. Then we can come to a consensus on what the section should say by the time the protection applied to this page by TNT expires. That would be the usual process for resolving a dispute like this. always forever (talk) 04:10, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The IP has seemingly elected not to partake in the great debate of “erroneous” vs. “informal.” They are now just adding Oxford commas to various articles. Oh well. Willhohenstein (talk) 15:23, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone besides the IP object to the use of the word “informal” instead of “erroneous”? If so, why? Let’s reach a consensus please. Willhohenstein (talk) 09:43, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not really- I personally feel that "debatably referred to as simply 'Frankenstein'" would work, but I've no objections to the use of 'informal'. Aziarynn28 (talk) 15:32, 9 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Aziarynn28: I appreciate your input, and I'm okay with something like that as well. So long as the article doesn't state that it's *always* incorrect to refer to the monster as just "Frankenstein." Willhohenstein (talk)— Preceding undated comment added 08:59, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]