Talk:Holy Cross dispute

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Troubles, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on this article (except in limited circumstances)
Neutrality: All editors on Troubles-related articles are directed to get the advice of neutral parties via means such as outside opinions.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on September 3, 2012, September 3, 2014, September 3, 2017, September 3, 2019, and September 3, 2021.

Belfast High‑importance

	Northern Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Belfast, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the City of Belfast, Northern Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.BelfastWikipedia:WikiProject BelfastTemplate:WikiProject BelfastBelfast-related
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Crime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Ireland Low‑importance

	Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject IrelandTemplate:WikiProject IrelandIreland
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Northern Ireland Low‑importance

	Northern Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Northern Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Northern Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Northern IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject Northern IrelandTemplate:WikiProject Northern IrelandNorthern Ireland-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Schools Mid‑importance

	Schools portal This article is related to WikiProject Schools, a collaborative effort to write quality articles about schools around the world. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page.SchoolsWikipedia:WikiProject SchoolsTemplate:WikiProject Schoolsschool
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

United Kingdom Low‑importance

	United Kingdom portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Linking

"Holy Cross (Belfast))" shouldn't link here, the page redirects to itself!!!!!Undead Herle King (talk) 22:18, 19 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wording

Why the change from "Loyalists" to "unionists" in the third para of beginnings. Gerry Lynch 23:54, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The people involved were unionists.

Lapsed Pacifist 00:58, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It's POV-pushing. Lapsed Pacifist wants to tar moderate unionists with the same brush as the loyalist scumbags responsible for Holy Cross. He's done the same thing on many other pages too, changing "loyalist paramilitaries" to "unionist paramilitaries". Demiurge 08:31, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not. What makes a unionist a loyalist? "Loyalist scumbags"? If you were a unionist, would you like IRA men walking by your door every morning? - it was Protestants who started rioting and threw fireworks at 10 Year Old Girls. The 'IRA' men never did anything like that did they? Lapsed Pacifist 08:46, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

These were ordinary Catholics, taking a stand, by demanding the right for their kids to go to school free of intimidation. At what point did they become 'nationalists'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.17.219.152 (talk) 14:06, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Picture

This article needs a Picture, does anyone have a photo of the area? Or perhaps a "heat of the moment" pic where the loyalists threw pipebombs on the street? Superdude99 15:44, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The argument of IRA Men walking past their houses is a scapgoat to try and condon this sectarian act. If that's the case, why do Loyalists get worked up when Orange Order marches are banned from Catholic areas, when the Orange Order is filled with Loyalists paramilitary members, not to mention to the so called "supports" of the march, who are allowed to follow, teenagers and known Loyalist paramilitary members shouting Anti Catholics slogans.

Every child has the right to education. Why did the parents walk their Children up the road, knowing their was a protest? The same reason Black People did it in America in the 1950's: it would be wrong to let hatred and bigetory to prevail.

BBX, this is a talk page about the article, not a discussion forum. Valenciano 13:26, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Garbage

This article is awful.

" Sadly they started protesting about this following a dispute and an alleged allegation that a parent kicked the wing mirror of a vehicle. Very upsetting and serious incidents of verbal abuse and violence occurred at the pickets, and there was widespread disorder throughout north Belfast for the duration of the dispute as a result of this dispute."

'Sadly'. 'Very upsetting'?

This is not a balanced article. It doesn't seem to coincide with the BBC (not known for being pro-Loyalist) says http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1518025.stm

The whole article needs rewriting: no more emotive words, and nothing without a good citation, as this article is an obvious target for POV-pushing by either Loyalist or Republican tendencies. I don't think the current length can be sustained as the detail can't be sourced, so it should probably shrink to little more than a 2-paragraph stub. Nssdfdsfds 01:09, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, feel free to edit. I have started. Dainamo 15:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In terms of describing the two communities, I think republican/loyalist only should be used rather than nationalist/unionist. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 16:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Loyalist" and "Republican" have evolved to refer to the more militant wings of the uniionist and nationalist community respectively. Hence when defining the communities in general it is far more NPOV to call them unionist and nationalist. The use of the other terms must be done so with disctetion and refer to specific groups, individuals and actions Dainamo 15:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The whole article needs to be reorganised given the contested history of the dispute. Inevitably the context and chronology of the dispute is going to be heavily challenged which can only be offset by significant inline referencing/linking to external sources and minimal narrative text (where possible including direct quotes from reliable sources, such as BBC, Irish Times, Belfast Telegraph etc rather than paraphrasing). The initial paragraph is fine but should probably be just followed by two sections giving an account from each side - perhaps best labelled as 'Protestors Perspectives' and 'Parents Perspectives' as neutral terms. This also avoids the issue of loaded labels like loyalist-unionist-Protestant or republican-nationalist-Catholic, although the two sections should perhaps include reference to the fact that the Protestors/Parents viewpoints on the dispute reflect their loyalist-unionist-Protestant background etc. Any claims with no external referencing should be deleted or consigned to a separate page (Claims about the Holy Cross Dispute) linked back to the main page. Jjconeill (talk) 09:45, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

International coverage?

There's very little mention of the enormous international coverage of this incident. I was in the States in 2001 and the story was widely covered by most if not all the news channels, and all the national newspapers. It was incredible. 79.97.154.238 (talk) 00:03, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, there was even an Oprah Winfrey Show devoted to the events covered by this article. The absense of any mention of the international reaction makes this article incomplete at best, and misleading at worst. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.194.195.232 (talk) 15:48, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Holy Cross dispute. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20170213065841/http://www.nisra.gov.uk/deprivation/archive/Updateof2005Measures/NIMDM_2010_Statistics_Press_Release.pdf to http://www.nisra.gov.uk/deprivation/archive/Updateof2005Measures/NIMDM_2010_Statistics_Press_Release.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:37, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]