Talk:List of Old Malvernians

Ellerman

Ellerman almost certainly did not go to MC. He spent part of his childhood in France and briefly attended King Edward VI School in Birmingham. Ellerman didn't get on with his mother and lived independently from the age of fourteen, when he was articled to a Birmingham chartered accountant.--Kudpung (talk) 10:47, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

The Times article cited clearly states that "John Jr was educated at the distinctly middle-of-the-road Malvern College". Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:23, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

OK - but maybe he was there for just one or two terms. --Kudpung (talk) 06:13, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Kudpung, it looks like you are thinking about his father, who had the same name. This fellow is his son, the 2nd Baronet, a vivisection enthusiast... User:Abacchus1974 Abacchus1974 (talk) 04:45, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

IMPORTANT

Every single entry on this list must be proven in some way or another. If the main biographical pages may mention that these people attended MC, it does not infer that it is a proven fact. Editors making additions to this list are reminded that it is their responsibility to check the facts for accuracy according to WP:BLP. Unsourced material will be deleted immediately.--Kudpung (talk) 14:11, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Gibson-Hill

Hi Kudpung - I have added the reference forCarl Alexander Gibson-Hill having attended Malvern College, as requested. I note, however, that it was referenced on his page anyway. Cheers. Maias (talk) 03:12, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Malvern, Malvern, Malvern...

Many biographical articles state something on the lines of ...he was at Malvern..., or ..he went to Malvern where he played cricket in the First XI... or...after five years at Malvern he went to St Jinglebells at Oxbridge... Whatever the traditions of public school parlance are, they are probably not the traditions of the Wikipedia which requires plain speech. In its heyday as a mecca of posh places of learning, there were around two dozen private schools at/in Malvern, so for the benefit of the rest of the non-Malvern, Englilsh speaking world, it may be worth suggesting that if Malvern College is meant, then probably 'Malvern College' should be written :)--Kudpung (talk) 18:58, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Images & other improvements

Hi kudpung, Well done with the images. Very impressed with the 'new look' to the list ....it now more than just a list! --Abacchus1974 (talk) 12:10, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

As there is space towards the bottom of the page for another image, Im directing you to some pages with images of Baron Weatherill, former Speaker of the House of Commons, so that you can handle permissions and put them up : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6632713.stm and http://www.lastingtribute.co.uk/tribute/weatherill/2561858 --Abacchus1974 (talk) 09:56, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Getting perms for images is very difficult. I used to try in th past, but I never got answers to my emails.--Kudpung (talk) 15:12, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Previously deleted alumni

The following were removed from the alumni list before we created the separate page. Do try to find references for them if you can, but please do not reinsert them without perfectly reliable third party sources and/or a referenced Wikipedia article about them.

• Jared Bryant, music producer, musician, songwriter No Google hits
• Sir Digby Cayley, 11th Baronet, schoolmaster
• Rodney 'Roddy' Williams polo player
• Sir Reginald Kennedy-Cox, founder of the Docklands Settlements
• James Rousseau, model
• Sir Peter Holmes (businessman) chairman of Royal Dutch / Shell
• Lt.-Col. Sir Delaval Cotter, 6th Baronet
• Air Vice-Marshal 'Bobby' Blucke
• Sir Peter Gibson, judge* Sir Anthony Hammond, legal counsel, investigator in the Hinduja affair
• Sir Derek Hodgson, judge
• Sir Peter Holmes, MD & chairman, Royal Dutch / Shell
• Mark Hubbard, professional raquets playe
• Sir Reginald Kennedy-Cox, philanthropist (Founder of the Dockland Settlements organisations)
• 'Paddy' Linaker (Lawrence Wignall), businessman
• Rodney ('Roddy') Williams, England polo player*
• Robin Winter, pioneering geneticist*
• Charles Courtier, CEO of Mediaedge:cia(MEC)
  --Kudpung (talk) 08:33, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Trying for Featured List

(copied from our user talk pages)

Hi Abacchus, are you busy? If you have time, please have a look at List of Boston Latin School alumni, a featured list of alumni. Do you think it's worth adopting a similar layout style (table)? Cheers, --Kudpung (talk) 22:04, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I would welcome the format you have suggested. It would certainly improve the layout but whether it is worth it Im not sure. I suppose it depends on whether someone is willing to introduce it. There are various alternative formats one being simply to rearrange the list according to profession. However, I think the facility of allowing the user to rearrange the list according to variables in the different columns is a splendid idea.--Abacchus1974 (talk) 22:08, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I also think a sortable table would be the answer; knick-knacks like that are what the Featured List reviewers seem to look for. However, I'm no programmer whan it comes to stuff like that. Do you know how to do it? I'll ask User Talk: Wotnow if he can help or if he knows someone who can, perhaps User:GyroMagician could chip in too.--Kudpung (talk) 03:02, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I looks pretty - and it's very easy to do. You're missing quite a lot of information though - you don't have images for many on the list (I think thy probably all exist on the linked pages though), and you don't have 'class years'. It seems a bit odd to include a reference when entries are linked to wiki-pages, but that's what the template allows for. I knocked up a list of A's to give you the idea. GyroMagician (talk) 07:58, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

{{AlumniimgStart}}
{{Alumimg
|name={{sort|Aherne|[[Brian Aherne]]}}
|year=
|nota=Actor
|ref=
}}
{{Alumimg
|name={{sort|Anderson|[[John Anderson, 3rd Viscount Waverley|John Anderson]]}}
|year=
|nota=Third Viscount Waverley.
|ref=
}}
{{Alumimg
|image=Angletn.jpg
|name={{sort|Angleton|[[James Jesus Angleton]]}}
|year=
|nota=Spymaster. Source of inspiration for the character ''Edward Wilson'' in the film ''[[The Good Shepherd (film)|The Good Shepherd]]''.
|ref=
}}
{{Alumimg
|name={{sort|Adebayo|[[Diran Adebayo]]}}
|year=
|nota=Novelist, critic.
|ref=
}}
{{Alumimg
|name={{sort|Arlen|[[Michael Arlen]]}}
|year=
|nota=Author, playwright.
|ref=
}}
{{Alumimg
|name={{sort|Aston|[[Francis William Aston]]}}
|year=
|nota=Physicist, 1922 winner of the [[Nobel Prize]] in Chemistry.
|ref=
}}
{{AlumniEnd}}

Image	Name	Class year	Notability	Reference(s)
Brian Aherne	Brian Aherne		Actor
—	John Anderson		Third Viscount Waverley.
James Jesus Angleton	James Jesus Angleton		Spymaster. Source of inspiration for the character Edward Wilson in the film The Good Shepherd.
—	Diran Adebayo		Novelist, critic.
Michael Arlen	Michael Arlen		Author, playwright.
Francis William Aston	Francis William Aston		Physicist, 1922 winner of the Nobel Prize in Chemistry.

It looks good enough to me. Do we have consensus to go ahead with it then? ... You have also contributed, Daemonic Kangaroo, what do you think? --Abacchus1974 (talk) 01:16, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

AS Gyro says, one of the main problems would probably be the dearth of photos. We could knock out the colums that are not used, but it might be interesting to find out the years that the subjects attended the school. School recors maybe? Who can get access to these? Someone in Malvern ? I won't be back there until mid January.--Kudpung (talk) 04:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

The 1905 Malvern Register is available online. I dont have the later ones at hand but should also be able to access them later on; not before December. --Abacchus1974 (talk) 00:36, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi folks. Responding to Kudpung's request for input. I'm not personally in a situation that allows me to get away with putting too much time into Wikipedia at present. Most of my recent forays are related in some way to my library culling process - in fact the bulk of my Wikipedia input is, even R.T. Claridge - I won't keep his book, I just don't know what to do with it yet. Meantime, my culling is approaching a crucial stage, and not before time, so I'm not likely to be able to do the very legwork I'm about to suggest.

You've been addressing the question of what goes into the table. Good angle, and the table layout looks fine enough. The main sort of questions I would seek to answer pertain to the point of the notice atop the page. That is, are there verifiable references pertaining to each person having attended Malvern College. How I'd go about addressing that and keeping track of myself is to start at the top of the list as it is, and work my way down via the article links. From each article, I'd copy the relevant citation and place it next to the person in the list. If the article doesn't have a suitable reference, I'd find one, place it in the article, then into the list, thus taking care of two birds with one stone. In fact if the article does have a reference you're taking care of two birds with one stone - satisfying yourself that the article contains relevant and verifiable references, and working methodically down the list at the same time, "checking" each name off by placing references next to it. If the reference gave me also the year, or at least the era in which the person attended Malvern College, I'd place that alongside the person's name (either exact or "circa"), thus also accumulating the data for the table. I doubt there's any quick way to go about this excercise, other than capitalising on any lists that can be found or acquired. Otherwise it's down to internet searches for each individual - which would benefit the associated article, but which is nevertheless likely to be tediously slow. My apologies for not being able to simply launch in and try finding stuff. Regards to you all, Wotnow (talk) 08:40, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback Wotnow. Good luck with chucking your books out. nearly all these people have Wiki pages so theerfs can be taken from there. Our biggest problem will be finding free use photos for them all, or non-free that we can use a convincing re-use rationale for.--Kudpung (talk) 08:54, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Priorities

What criteria qualify Angleton rather than anyone else (besides Aherne and Aston) as subject of one of the three pictures? Not disputing, just asking. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 14:43, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry Michael, but I don't understand the question. Which three pictures? --Kudpung (talk) 15:24, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I was looking at the Talk page, which has pictures of Aherne, Angleton and Aston. But now that I have looked at the Article page, I can ask why Angleton but not Aston, why Burnup but not Burton, why not Cohen, why not Ellerman, why Fuller and not Foden, why not Lewis, why no Ridsdale (or any other clergyperson), why not Selfridge, ... Does NPOV come into selection of people for whom pictures are displayed?

Also, it would be informative to include in mention of old Malvonians in rewording under notables "who include scientists, economists, clergy, authors, spies, ..." but would that require references to verification of each? On basis that no WK article can take for granted any other WK article. Which is essential, considering the wildly incorrect material that I have to link to from article about Charles Coulson. Not arguing, just puzzled and seeking clarification.

Incidentally, hick town has different connotation in U.S. Even if (PARTICULARLY IF) I were in a hick town in U.S. I would be putting my life in danger by referring to it as such. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 21:37, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, just realized that pictures for many of the people I mentioned may be hard to find. But I did find a few, very quickly. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 01:13, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

We Malvernians just simply used to call it a 'One horse town' - there is very little danger in anything in Malvern, and the Gazette is mainly a list of parking fine given out in the week (metaphoricaly, of course). Kudpung (talk) 03:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Finding pictures is very difficult because although there are many out there, they must comply with our policy regarding copyright, and very few do. Abaccus and I spent a long time last year looking for copyright free photos, and what we have is all we could find at the time.Kudpung (talk) 05:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Hello Kudpung, Lascelles Abercrombie, a very good addition! I would like to find more time but, ATM, Im limited to a few contributions a day. hoping next month with find me with more time ...but if someone has time and can look through the Registers, particularly the more recent ones which I have not until now had the opportunity to refer to... I vaguely recall, selection of images was partly down to scarcity of images, limited space in the List (the need for images to correspond with alphabetic order) and, IMO, those that you selected are indeed some of the better known personalities... --Abacchus1974 (talk) 23:57, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Finding photos really is a problem, isn't it? I keep having the occasional stab at looking but without much success. However, we are not restricted by space - as suggested above, we can always move over to a searchable table format if the list gets bigger. Kudpung (talk) 13:48, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

We need more pictures on the list. All users are welcome to help!--Abacchus1974 (talk) 16:54, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Oxford Dictionary of National Biography

Good idea Michael. With all these other people from Malvern, it might be an idea now to start a list page as Giro suggested - there's no way we can accomodate them all on the Malvern page. Malvern College is interesting (it's also one of my GAs). There is a special list for alumni that I also made at List of Old Malvernians. You can add to that list if you would like to, but there are some special conditions of verifiability attached. If you do, I would suggest you start with the ones that have Wikipedia pages and proven attendance at the school. Photos would be good too if you can find any. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:30, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I took a quick look at Old Malvernians. The following are missing: Bunny Austin, Beauman, Varyl Begg, John Wheeler-Bennett, Boosey of Boosey & Hawkes. So are Bury, Christie, Harvey, Jeffries, Knox, Mogg, Mozley, Reid, Robertson, both Salmon's, Savill, Dennis Sciama, Stacpole, Titchener, Walwyn, Wilks, Williams, Wood -- I did not check for WK articles on them systematically, but I remembered there is one for Dennis, and the closest for Brian Salmon (relevant to Leo computer) are J. Lyons and Co. and Salmon & Gluckstein, latter does not have a single reference -- how does that go unnoticed? But time is inelastic, and I think the best communal use of the time I can spend on WK is to post in Malvern and Malvern Hills articles /discussion pages, and on articles about John C. Slater and Charles Coulson, further material I have collected / know where to look. I have given a cache of papers, "grey" literature etc. to Chemical Heritage Foundation that articles on Slater and Coulson, and if I can manage it, R. A. Smith, can refer to. Going back to DNB, when I need it for verifiability or emphasis, is <ref>Oxford Dictionary of National Biography</ref> sufficient -- this can be done quite fast, but putting full reference to author of DNB article is time consuming and can make the bibliography overwhelming. What about other people mentioned in association with College? And the other schools? I think that the article about an Old Malvernian, when there is one, should be edited to mention attendance at College. Are there ways to streamline this? Is it permissible to have hide/show paragraphs in an article. Cannot do more now. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 01:09, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

You might like to get in touch with User talk:Abacchus1974 who has been doing some excellent work on the Old Malvernians list since I started it. He's very keen. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:10, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Well done Michael! As Im not subscribed to ODNB online, I kept putting off going to the library to do this so Im glad youve taken the initiative and pasted your search results here! The arrangement by Kudpung will also be useful for editors. The ODNB is of course a very reliable source and would be an invaluable reference. Also, Im glad that some of the names under MC are ones I havent seen before (I was expecting that!) but its not a complete list. In particular, most sportsmen are omitted. But nothing is perfect! Exceptionally, even a school's own Registers can seem incomplete, whether due to a variation of spelling or an omission... For example, Stacpoole, the author of "The Blue Lagoon" (youve probably had a cocktail or been to a restaurant by the same name!) has a "k" in the Register. Although I added a Malvern reference to Stacpoole's page last year, his page is badly in need of expansion. Note also that not all persons who come under a search hit for a school necessarily attended attended as a pupil. Some may have taught there, others been on the Council, some may just have visited. It could be that Bunny Austin actually attended Repton instead of Malvern?! You have to be a bit careful about computerised search results....

I think in the absence of a functioning external link to an ODNB or other reputable webpage, it would be preferable to add the proper reference including edition, publisher, page... Only verifiable notable persons should be on the list, no matter how notable they may seem. Others for which information is lacking can be put on the discussion page on a "pending" list, as Kudpung has done in the past. Note that there is the category Old Malvernians and there is also the List of Old Malvernians, the latter being more selective, I hope. --Abacchus1974 (talk) 11:23, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

To start with, Ive selected Dennis Sciama for the List. I think he is a solid choice and most worthy a place. Im sure noone would doubt his place there! The reference, citation style, that I inserted for him in the List was not ODNB simply because I dont have a page reference - and I would prefer to feature such details. However, I did feature ODNB on his respective page as an external link.--Abacchus1974 (talk) 23:44, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

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