Talk:Murad I

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Murat being illiterate

Hello. While this is given a source in the article, it makes no sense. All şehzades are grown in enderun (the state school for elite bureaucrats), and many know many languages. Some were poets and musicians or other such artists.

In murat's time the enderun hadn't been set to stone yet, but he still received some form of education, İlber Ortaylı's Türklerin Tarihi 2 page 141 states he knew Greek. A bilingual (maybe more) man can't possibly be illiterate. 31.155.216.163 (talk) 12:01, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The source used is also dubious - it being from an English aristocrat in 1917 when Britain and the Ottoman Empire were at war. Secondary source needed. Iskandar323 (talk) 12:23, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I added this. It was claimed by Joseph von Hammer-Purgstall, probably in his (1837) History of the Ottoman Empire work. Can't find the primary source but found [1] here, p. 117 saying Hammer claiming this because of his treaty with Ragusa Republic. Beshogur (talk) 15:06, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It still seems we have some very dated scholarship insufficiently supported by recent academic review. What is written about the Ragusan treaty? Iskandar323 (talk) 10:08, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well other people are welcome to add whether is disputed by other scholars, or how much languages he speak, etc. Regarding the treaty, he didn't sign it, but dipped his thumb in ink and signed it like that. There is not much information about his literacy actually. Beshogur (talk) 10:46, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would not use Eversley for anything. A search for a reliable source concerning Murad I's illiteracy resulted in nothing. Although, I did find an intriguing source concerning Murad II's possible illiteracy.[2] Needless to say, I am not sure what purpose this would serve by including this information in any article. If there was information(story, etc) leading to this fact, then I could see it being something of importance. Aside from that, it is just some random trivia that did not effect their ability(as far as I can tell) to be sultan. --Kansas Bear (talk) 19:30, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The John Armstrong source doesn't look great either, what with its casual repetition of the rather tired Genghis Khan pyramid of skulls motif. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:05, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Some clarity, kindly

Can we please ask people not to put nonsense like "Davud Murad Bey, who fled to Hungary when his father died" in articles, when we know that Davud Murad's father was 21 years old when he was killed by his own father, Davud Murad's grandfather.

So how old was this child when he "fled to Hungary (when his father died)", four? Three? Did the child really "flee"? Had a concept of fleeing to a foreign country from the sultanate/kingdom/empire ruled by his ancestor?

Let's for the sake of the argument even claim that his father sired this child at age 14, the boy would still be merely seven years of age. "Fled" to a foreign country hundreds of kilometres away?! Puuuhleeeeeease.