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Apparently you redirect was disruptive (it seems you tried to copy-paste the content instead of making a physical move, which would move the history as well). Now it is fixed, but is located at The Holocaust in Italian Libya. If you wish to move it to The Holocaust in Libya, it is not possible (the back-path had been blocked by your last edits). In any case the events took place in Italian Libya and not the State of Libya, so i suggest to keep it this way.Greyshark09 (talk) 20:25, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Totally biased and wrong. The Italians did not carry out mass killings of Jews in Libya, that's false! In fact the worst oppression was carried out by German soldiers and SS officers. I've changed the article title to "The Jews of Libya during the Holocaust". I think that this both avoids giving the false impression that the Italian authorities were carrying out a genocidal policy against Jews in Libya, and wrongly implying that the State of Libya was itself carrying out such a policy. Jacob D (talk) 22:16, 17 February 2017 (UTC)Jacob D[reply]
I've just finished doing a thorough research about this well written article. Apparently, the majority of its content was translated from the Hebrew version of this article, which had existed before this one was created. So first off, even though I didn't originally create it, I'm giving credit to the Hebrew article as Wikipedia requires. Now, everything written in the Hebrew version is accurate, verifiable and well sourced, but often uses actual books in Hebrew as references. Therefore, in case anyone wonders, some of the detailed information provided in this article which isn't specifically sourced was directly taken from the Hebrew one, so no worries, nothing is made up. Any further questions are welcomed.. Shalom11111 (talk) 16:44, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
I have a problem with this article’s title. The Holocaust is, as I understand it, defined as the genocide of European Jews in WWII. The Jews of Libya were not European, and I haven’t seen sources that discuss their concentration as part of the Holocaust per se. I see the article was named this way citing various similar titles, but those articles all referred to European countries. Pinging those who participated in that discussion: @Brigade Piron @Vice regent @Dimadick @Rreagan007꧁Zanahary꧂18:26, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I agree that the article title contradicts NPOV. At best there is debate about whether Libyan Jews were intended to be included in the Holocaust. (t · c) buidhe23:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not super well-researched on the constitution of the Holocaust, but I'm sure some Wikipedians are. I've notified WikiProject Jewish History, but if anyone knows any editors who could help us out here, please ping them or alert them on their Talk. ꧁Zanahary꧂03:48, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest as a compromise that we follow the same approach as for neutral and not-so-neutral countries (e.g. Spain) and chose Libya and the Holocaust. This ensures that the word "Holocaust" is in the title, which I think is appropriate and supported by modern scholarship, without taking a definite position on whether the Holocaust took place in Libya. I was actually proposing to adopt this approach in a draft article I am writing on French North Africa for which similar concerns apply.
On the need for the word "Holocaust" in the title, I think it is worth citing Dan Stone who writes, for example, that, "historians are only now describing the fact that the Holocaust exceeded the boundaries of Europe. North Africa has been almost entirely omitted from most histories of the Holocaust, yet in the Vichy-controlled Maghreb and in areas occupied by the Germans and Italians, the persecution of the Jews forms part of the wider Holocaust story." (The Holocaust: An Unfinished History, 2023).—Brigade Piron (talk) 09:35, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are you aware that there were a number of concentration and labor camps for Jews in Libya during WWII? As I’ve researched them, I’ve often found them in volumes about the Holocaust. Spain had no such camps, I believe. Maybe the better conversation would be one at Holocaust to discuss refactoring the lead to include North Africa, as some more recent scholarship has. ꧁Zanahary꧂03:59, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It sounds crass but plenty of countries had concentration and labour camps in the 1940s in which Jews were either specifically detained or overrepresented - Vichy camps in French North Africa would be another example. Any history of the Holocaust needs to integrate them, but I think it is wrong to say that there is a scholarly consensus that they were necessarily part of the coordinated plan for the extermination of Jewry playing out at the same time in Europe. It is precisely this ambiguity which means that we need to be careful about the title. —Brigade Piron (talk) 22:04, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I support this title. I've been doing research and it seems recent scholarship generally considers the plight of North African Jewry to also be the Holocaust. I'll take this to Talk:Holocaust. In fact I think The Holocaust in Libya is the appropriate title, per BP's objection to "Italian" and my own reading of the sources describing the internments and deportations in Libya as being part of the Holocaust (changed July 15) ꧁Zanahary꧂05:39, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The addition of "Italian" doesn't really affect the merits of the title. Why it is important to disambiguate "Italian Libya" from its successor states anyway? It is not like there were several Holocausts in Libya affecting different regimes.—Brigade Piron (talk) 21:57, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
