Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 August 21

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August 21

Category:Films set in the Hyborian Age

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete. Note that all articles are also represented in Category:Films based on works by Robert E. Howard. bibliomaniac 1 5 03:26, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Films set in the Hyborian Age to Category:Conan the Barbarian films

Nominator's rationale: We do not typically create categories for specific fictional settings. Consistency with the other subcategories of Category:Conan the Barbarian. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 21:44, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, Category:Conan films already exists. That one may be renamed to Category:Conan the Barbarian films, but that is a different discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:08, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

+ Or alt merge to Category:Films set in prehistory, since prehistory seems to be the real-world concept that is closest to the fictional Hyborian Age. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:46, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The Red Sonja films included have the same setting and do not involve Conan. Dimadick (talk) 07:35, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Maybe merging some of the films into Category:Films based on works by Robert E. Howard would be better?★Trekker (talk) 15:35, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Marcocapelle and the rationale for #Category:Films set in the Thurian Age below. Also support renaming as nom as second best outcome if consensus tends towards that. Place Clichy (talk) 07:58, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Films set in Genosha

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 18:47, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Category:Films set in Genosha to Category:Films set in Africa

Nominator's rationale: Same reason as below, except that neither film is in Category:Films set in a fictional country (or Category:Films set on fictional islands, which is not applicable for Wakanda). See also Genosha, which is a fictional African country from the X-Men franchise. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 21:39, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:04, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 07:58, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Films set in Wakanda

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 18:48, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Category:Films set in Wakanda to Category:Films set in a fictional country

Nominator's rationale: Wakanda is a fictional African country in Marvel Comics. We don't normally create categories for specific fictional settings, per WP:SMALLCAT. All members except the redirect are already in Category:Films set in Africa and Category:Marvel Cinematic Universe films. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 21:35, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merge per nom. The target should be deleted too, but that is a different discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:56, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 07:58, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fictional sycophants

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 17:06, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Fictional sycophants (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Vague and subjective what belongs in there JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 21:08, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, subjective and mostly non-defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:01, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete POV category. Dimadick (talk) 07:39, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Films set in the Thurian Age

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 17:07, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Films set in the Thurian Age (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: SMALLCAT. The Thurian Age is a fictional period and as such this should not be merged into the "Films set in pre-history" category. ★Trekker (talk) 19:13, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Why? The Kull of Atlantis tales are set in a pre-cataclysmic era of the Earth. Dimadick (talk) 19:17, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Because its a completly made up era of history with more fantasy elements than anything, its misleading to have a category named after a fictional period of history placed in "films set in pre-history".★Trekker (talk) 19:26, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, the setting of fiction is about how it fits in the real world. Thurian Age is just part of the fictional story line. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:58, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 07:58, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Scottish Gaelic language

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: do not rename. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:19, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Scottish Gaelic language to Category:Scottish Gaelic

Nominator's rationale: Per Talk:Scottish Gaelic#Requested move 15 August 2020, everyone else agreed that Scottish Gaelic is not ambiguous. Therefore, I am reopening the CfD. Soumya-8974 ^talk _contribs ^subpages 18:25, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Oculi, BrownHairedGirl, and Peterkingiron: pinging contributors to previous discussion of 18 July which has been closed only a few days ago. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:12, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep, nothing has changed since the previous discussion, the article name was already at Scottish Gaelic during that discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:12, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep - becoming tiresome. Oculi (talk) 20:22, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep There is no reason to change it and not for the reasons you think. Where is the benefit? Changed to Speedy Keep. scope_creep^Talk 23:39, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep -- The closure of the CfD should be final even if one person does not like it. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:29, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Rename. There are changed circumstances: the consensus that the article name is correct at Talk:Scottish Gaelic#Requested move 15 August 2020. In the spirit of C2D, I'm looking for a reason that the category and article names should be different. I don't see one. —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 16:52, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Pinging all participants in the RM who haven't commented or been pinged above: @Largoplazo, Crouch, Swale, ThoughtIdRetired, Rreagan007, and Buidhe. —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 16:55, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak rename per WP:NCL I don't think "Scottish Gaelic" is commonly used to refer to anything else other than the language then again EB uses this term and categories usually are less ambiguous than articles. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:01, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Rename for the reasons given for keeping the article at Scottish Gaelic during that discussion, combined with not seeing why the opposite outcome should prevail for the category. Largoplazo (talk) 17:18, 4 September 2020 (UTC) Keep after reading BHG's rationale in response to my inquiry below. Largoplazo (talk) 02:36, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Rename. Having the main article and the category being the same name is somewhat helpful, and I see no downside to it. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:37, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Rename: speedy keep voters all ignore the fact that the consensus is to keep the page at the base name; the category should match it. (t · c) buidhe 21:48, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nearly every language category contains "language" in the title. It would be helpful to keep some consistency. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:56, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Consistency is the point. The article and the category are inconsistent. Are there many cases where the article doesn't have "language" and the category does? Largoplazo (talk) 11:23, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Procedurally, this is blatant WP:FORUMSHOPPING by @Soumya-8974, who lacked the courtesy to even link to the July 18 CFD.

Substantively, this proposed rename creates avoidable ambiguity and breaks consistency with other categories. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:46, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@BrownHairedGirl: I've asked you before to explain where any ambiguity lies, and I don't believe I've seen any response from you. Here you again claim ambiguity without indicating alternative meanings. What else do you believe "Scottish Gaelic" means?

In addition, why don't you think the consistency should be with the article name? If language article names expressly don't need to be consistent on this score, why is it more important for language categories? That question is really for everybody here who keep citing "consistency" as a reason. Largoplazo (talk) 22:52, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Largoplazo, the ambiguity is with the broader topic of Scottish Gaelic culture (see e.g. https://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?Query=%22scottish+gaelic+culture%22). The language is just a part of that culture.

Consistency and non-ambiguity is much more important with category names than with article names, for multiple reasons:

A wide variety of tools rely on that consistency
Ambiguous category names lead to miscategorisation which is hard to detect. Hatnotes in categories don't solve the problem, because they are not displayed to editors when adding categories, nor by any means other than visiting the category page. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:18, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your response. Regarding Scottish Gaelic culture, we are told that disambiguation doesn't apply to phrases that begin with the term in question. Scottish Gaelic culture isn't called, elliptically, "Scottish Gaelic"—in other words, "I enjoy Scottish Gaelic" won't be interpreted as "I enjoy Scottish Gaelic culture". However, your explanation regarding the difference between categories and articles does clarify that for categories there are technical factors not applicable to articles, and I consider myself informed. Largoplazo (talk) 02:36, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Oppose I would have actually iVoted differently but I don't see a point in relisting a pretty clear and recent CFD outcome. RevelationDirect (talk) 00:51, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American people of Iraqi-Arab descent

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 November 2#Category:American people of Iraqi-Arab descent

Category:Pride parades in Poland

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 September 16#Category:Pride parades in Poland

Category:Musical characters

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 17:07, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Musical characters (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Redundant to its subcat Category:Fictional musicians, and ambiguously titled to boot. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 05:35, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, I expected this was about characters in musicals but "musical" is apparently meant as adjective here. Not defining. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:54, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Couldn't this be repurposed to be for characters from stage musicals and film musicals?★Trekker (talk) 19:14, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:TNT. Ambiguous scope, but Category:Fictional characters from musicals may be acceptable. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 21:46, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- While I see the point that would break with the scheme seen in Category:Fictional characters by medium.★Trekker (talk) 22:03, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @LaundryPizza03: Category:Musical theatre characters already exists. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:02, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom; I also thought it was ambiguously titled but thought it would include ♯ and ♭ and such... Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:45, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.