Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Austria
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Austria
[edit]- Mark Kotter (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Unless someone can show how this would meet WP:NPROF, subject is not notable under any other guideline. Putting aside COI and UPE, the sources simply do not go into depth about the subject. Just passing mentions. CNMall41 (talk) 23:29, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Academics and educators, Medicine, Austria, and Canada. CNMall41 (talk) 23:30, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Most sourcing I can find is actually about the Meatable company, not about Kotter. Being quoted in some articles about your company doesn't transfer notability to the person, and I don't see any evidence this meets WP:NPROF. - MrOllie (talk) 23:41, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: I agree with CNMall41 and MrOllie. Axad12 (talk) 14:50, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
Comment, leaningkeep. Not my area, and I know neuroscience is heavily cited, but according to GS Kotter has two co-authored articles with >1000 citations (one is a review), and a further 18 with >100 citations, which seems to merit consideration under PROF. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could weigh in? Espresso Addict (talk) 07:28, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- Converting to a formal keep per Ldm1954's comments below. Espresso Addict (talk) 02:49, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Not in-depth because the sources just pass a claim. COI, not at all notable. Agreeing with Axad12, MrOllie, CNMall41. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Cooldudeseven7 join in on the tea talk 17:49, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Extending based on review - more time may be of benefit here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Tawker (talk) 22:32, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. With an h-factor of 48 he just about passes NPROF#C1. Note that for NPROF we don't require extensive external coverage. If he had significant awards it would be a strong keep; at the moment he squeezes by. Ldm1954 (talk) 13:01, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- h-factor can be an indicator, but not proof of notability. We need to show "either several extremely highly cited scholarly publications or a substantial number of scholarly publications with significant citation rates. Reviews of the person's work, published in selective academic publications, can be considered together with ordinary citations here." I don't see that here unfortunately. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:32, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- @CNMall41, it is very rare to find reviews of the work of scientists except when they receive major awards, in Feitschrifts or obituaries; hence that criteria is rarely used in the AfD discussions I have seen. He has two > 1K cited papers in high quality journals (Nature Reviews, Brain). As I said, I would be happier if there were awards to back up the case but I will argue that he just makes #C1. Please also look at his citation history which has had a rapid growth in 2022-2023 which looks to be continuing in 2024. That does strengthen the case slightly. Ldm1954 (talk) 21:00, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the reply and I respect your points. I understand it may be rare but if they don't exists then they don't exist. The coverage in reliable sources is what we need. If the citations pick up in the future, maybe he will meet the threshhold but I think we are even lower than low hanging fruit to say he meet #C1 based on two papers with 1K+ cites. Maybe a redirect to Meatable would be appropriate until such time as he meets the threshold. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:08, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, but I completely disagree with you. Let me be more definitive; coverage such as reviews of their work is not a viable criteria in almost all of science. There are many scientists without them who already have WP pages. If people cite the work, and it is in a high impact journal that is a strong indicator. Note that this is not HEP where citations are massive.
- If you believe 1K is not a significant number of citations I really think you should post a question at WT:NPROF to get more opinions. Ldm1954 (talk) 21:28, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- Checking, I just looked under one of his GS areas remyelination. The highest cited person has 3 articles with > 1K cites, the 2nd has 1, 3rd 0, 4th 2 and he is fifth. I see no indications this is a very high cites field (e.g. HEP), it is comparable to physics, albeit much higher than math and most arts. Ldm1954 (talk) 21:46, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- I understand the disagreement which is why we are discussing. I never said it was not a significant number of citations. I said that #C1 would not be satisfied with two papers of 1K+ citations. If it was, we would have a ton of pages for people who would otherwise not be notable. I agree that a significant number of citations is an indicator of notability, which is why I said "h-factor can be an indicator;" but, it is just that...an indicator. There would need to be an agreement that the amount of cites he has is significant enough to pass the #C1 criteria and I don't think we do. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:56, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the reply and I respect your points. I understand it may be rare but if they don't exists then they don't exist. The coverage in reliable sources is what we need. If the citations pick up in the future, maybe he will meet the threshhold but I think we are even lower than low hanging fruit to say he meet #C1 based on two papers with 1K+ cites. Maybe a redirect to Meatable would be appropriate until such time as he meets the threshold. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:08, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- @CNMall41, it is very rare to find reviews of the work of scientists except when they receive major awards, in Feitschrifts or obituaries; hence that criteria is rarely used in the AfD discussions I have seen. He has two > 1K cited papers in high quality journals (Nature Reviews, Brain). As I said, I would be happier if there were awards to back up the case but I will argue that he just makes #C1. Please also look at his citation history which has had a rapid growth in 2022-2023 which looks to be continuing in 2024. That does strengthen the case slightly. Ldm1954 (talk) 21:00, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- h-factor can be an indicator, but not proof of notability. We need to show "either several extremely highly cited scholarly publications or a substantial number of scholarly publications with significant citation rates. Reviews of the person's work, published in selective academic publications, can be considered together with ordinary citations here." I don't see that here unfortunately. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:32, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. If we agree that the subject passes WP:PROF (and I'm not claiming that we do) then GNG arguments are moot. And unless I'm mistaken, outside a few hot-button topics, research papers with >1000 citations are still very rare. Espresso Addict (talk) 02:49, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think we are close. I don't believe this would meet GNG so the only thing I think we differ on at the moment is if his citations would meet the threshold of #C1. I wouldn't be opposed to requesting other editors with experience in that space to chime in. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:26, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- Indeed, that was what I hoped for when I first commented. Espresso Addict (talk) 22:50, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- I do see an open discussion from September but it doesn't look like there is headway one direction or the other. Personally, I hate WP:PROF standards as everything is subjective in cases like this.
- Interpretation of whether GNG is met is also surprisingly subjective. Espresso Addict (talk) 23:24, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- I do see an open discussion from September but it doesn't look like there is headway one direction or the other. Personally, I hate WP:PROF standards as everything is subjective in cases like this.
- Indeed, that was what I hoped for when I first commented. Espresso Addict (talk) 22:50, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think we are close. I don't believe this would meet GNG so the only thing I think we differ on at the moment is if his citations would meet the threshold of #C1. I wouldn't be opposed to requesting other editors with experience in that space to chime in. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:26, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
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- Wikipedia:WikiProject Austria/Article alerts, a bot-maintained listing of a variety of changes affecting Austria related pages including deletion discussions