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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/February 2018

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February 28

[edit]
February 28, 2018 (2018-02-28) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

[Posted] RD: Barry Crimmins

[edit]
Article: Barry Crimmins (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 GCG (talk) 19:58, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Canadian banknotes

[edit]
Snow Close Obviously a good faith nomination but this is not going to get posted. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:47, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Withdrawn Canadian banknotes (talk · history · tag) and Canadian dollar (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Canada, the banknote denominations of C$1,000, $500, $25, $2 and $1 are withdrawn as legal tender. (Post)
News source(s): CBC, Huffington Post
Both articles need updating
  • Oppose. Individual notes and coins cease to be legal tender all the time (the English paper £10 note also ceases to be legal tender this week), and the linked article makes it clear that these are obsolete notes which haven't been produced since the last century, not a current issue being withdrawn. ("Ceased to be legal tender" doesn't mean they suddenly become worthless, either; it just means you can no longer spend them in shops and need to exchange them in a bank.) This isn't remotely a big deal, and if it is ITN-worthy will open a spectacular floodgate; there are 200+ countries in the world, and probably on any given day one of them is either issuing a new note/coin or withdrawing an old one. ‑ Iridescent 23:19, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Iridescent. Not remotely ITN material. Black Kite (talk) 23:21, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - perhaps attempt a nomination at DYK, as this item would be more suitable thataways. Stormy clouds (talk) 23:25, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

February 27

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February 27, 2018 (2018-02-27) (Tuesday)
International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Stale] RD: M. Jaishankar

[edit]
Stale.--WaltCip (talk) 13:28, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: M. Jaishankar (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New Indian Express
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Indian criminal who committed suicide at the age of 41. Article is reasonably referenced, but may require some work. Stormy clouds (talk) 18:14, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: - Removed, as there is no source to justify such a claim. Please detail any other such issues so that I may rectify them. Thanks, Stormy clouds (talk) 20:12, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • This reads as a string of accusations, suppositions and arrests, but has little detail on actual convictions. Whilst few will mourn his man we must still adhere to BLP. Stephen 23:32, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

*Support for RD. I for one will not mourn this man, but the sourcing on the article looks solid. The facts appear to be presented as neutrally as possible. Challenger l (talk) 00:46, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Sourcing is adequate, and article seems to be neutral. --Jayron32 02:47, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I can't help but wonder if this is really necessary. Sure, we aren't supposed to evaluate RDs on the basis of anything but article quality, but do we really think it's a good idea to put a convicted serial rapist and murderer on the front page? We can post anyone who has recently died (if article quality is satisfactory), but that doesn't automatically mean we should. Lepricavark (talk) 05:56, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I know that. I'm just saying that it's okay to make an exception to the rule once in a while. Lepricavark (talk) 14:51, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know that we should implement this policy - I can see it being a slippy slope argument (Charles Manson was posted, remember?), and we must refrain from righting great wrongs. Stormy clouds (talk) 07:35, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I looked at the actual text of RIGHTGREATWRONGS and it is not applicable here. I'm not suggesting that we implement a new policy. My point is simply that we should reconsider whether we want to give any acknowledgement to a recently deceased serial rapist and murderer. And I'm not sure the comparison with Manson is apples to apples, as Manson was a household name for decades. Lepricavark (talk) 14:51, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Lepricavark: I understand your logic, I just don't necessarily agree. Under the same principle, we would not post major terror attacks as they would bring attention to terror groups like Daesh. Recent death are posted provided the article quality is sufficient, and making alterations to this rule is not, admittedly only in my opinion, a good idea. If others do not agree, so be it, but we are an encyclopedia, and should refrain from suppressing encyclopedic content of sufficient quality due to moral quandaries. Stormy clouds (talk) 14:58, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There is nothing wrong with this proposal, if is presented in the proper forum and approved by the community. I think you'd find that the implementation would be extremely difficult. The current standard is very clean: omitting a honorable person is not a travesty, including a vile person is not an endorsement. We are only saying we have this article you can look at that we all think is pretty good. Once we get into moral judgements... how do we treat O.J. Simpson, Pete Rose, or Art Schlichter? Billy Graham faced opposition due to his homophobia. (Oh boy, it's going to be fun when this pushes Sridevi off MP) GCG (talk) 19:25, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support article seems adequate. RD is for all biographical articles. An RD posting does not imply a value judgement on a person, any more than the presence of an article in the first place does. --LukeSurl t c 17:54, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose RGR notwithstanding, this article reads like it was written by a fan; I keep hearing Bill Hader doing his macabre Keith Morrison impression as I read it. The proseline is rough. This really isn't spotlight material. GCG (talk) 19:38, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - we now have editors claiming that the article is not neutral as it consists of accusations against the subject, editors claiming that it is too positive towards the subject, and a majority claiming that it is in fact neutral. The discussion is now fractured into literally all possible viewpoints, so this may need the attention of an uninvolved admin to make an assessment one way or another. Stormy clouds (talk) 19:43, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have removed the Ready tag. Looking over the discussion I am not satisfied that there is an adequate consensus for posting at this time. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:27, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Too many sentences unsourced, or sourced to tabloid newspapers. Black Kite (talk) 20:44, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Are we reading the same article? Because I can't find a single statement in the article which does not have a direct, inline source to a reliable source. Most of it is sourced to the Times of India and New Indian Express, which seem to be legitimate journalism. Can you elaborate on which statements are not connected to reliable sources? --Jayron32 14:33, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • India Today ("Dreaded psycho rapist escapes from Bangalore jail") and DNA ("Watch out, there's a psycho on the loose") don't strike me as outstanding journalism. The other problem is that, for example, the "Second arrest (2011)" paragraph is written in Wikipedia's voice as fact, whilst the source makes it clear that much of it is simply what was reported by the villagers (which could be fact, but might not be). ONe of the other problems is the tendency of Indian news sources to report alleged incidents as fact (for example, one source contains " Jaishankar and Selvam hacked the helpless woman with a sickle and severed one of her limbs before robbing her of a chain weighing around 8.5 sovereigns" in a story saying they had been acquitted of the crime). Black Kite (talk) 20:27, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] RD: Quini

[edit]
Article: Quini (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Spain and Barcelona footballer who was kidnapped in 1981. Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:03, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support Much improved. No issues. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:00, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
okay then. Support GCG (talk) 17:14, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 26

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February 26, 2018 (2018-02-26) (Monday)
Arts and culture

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Posted] RD: Li Boguang

[edit]
Article: Li Boguang (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article is rather short, but is sufficient given the subject. I spent a while on expansion and referencing, so I feel that references are to an alright, albeit not ideal, standard. Stormy clouds (talk) 21:18, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Ad Orientem: - sourced the CN tag in this diff, so I removed it. Thanks, Stormy clouds (talk) 21:33, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose The article is in awesome shape, but it is lacking information on death (except for the one sentence mention in the lead). A section regarding his death would be perfect and would expand the article and seeing many attribute his treatment by the government as a contributor to his death, would make it great to include in the Death section. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:49, 26 February 2018 (UTC) Support Issues fixed. Perfect condition. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:59, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@TDKR Chicago 101: - as of this diff,  Done
  • Oppose until the death is better sourced; a statement like 'media outlets considering his demise to be "suspicious"' attributed solely to Radio Free Asia (a US government propaganda channel which doesn't even make a pretence of neutrality) isn't something that should be linked from Wikipedia's main page. ‑ Iridescent 21:54, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Iridescent: - missed that. My bad. It is now also attributed to Reuters and the Washington Post. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:20, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 25

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February 25, 2018 (2018-02-25) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

[Posted] 2018 Papua New Guinea earthquake

[edit]
Article: 2018 Papua New Guinea earthquake (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 34 people are killed in landslides caused by a 7.5 Mw earthquake in Papua New Guinea. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Article is in good shape. Although earthquakes in PNG are not uncommon this one hit the main island causing more damage than usual (It seems that most of the other recent ones tend to hit on offshore islands). EternalNomad (talk) 22:12, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] 2018 Winter Olympics closing ceremony

[edit]
Unimproved. Stephen 08:03, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2018 Winter Olympics closing ceremony (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The 2018 Winter Olympics closes with Norway leading the medal table. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Because even some of our regular editors are confused, I'll nominate this, it's in a junk state but who knows, someone might fix it. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:20, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Advisory: See this. – Sca (talk) 01:00, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
What? The Rambling Man (talk) 09:20, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] RD: Ainsley Gotto

[edit]
Article: Ainsley Gotto (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Australian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:28, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Removed] Remove: 2018 Winter Olympics

[edit]
Article: 2018 Winter Olympics (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Nominator's comments: It's all over. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:22, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 24

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February 24, 2018 (2018-02-24) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Politics and elections

Sports

[Posted] RD: Bud Luckey

[edit]
Article: Bud Luckey (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter, Animation Magazine
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article has been updated and is well sourced. Oscar-nominated Pixar animator. Death was announced today by his son. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:20, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Stephen: One support and already posted. Great double standards, keep it up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Manish2542 (talk • contribs)

Manish2542 Stephen is more than capable of identifying whether an article is suitably updated and referenced for RD inclusion. There are no "double standards". Please don't make any further personal attacks. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:35, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed, Posted RD] RD/Blurb: Sridevi

[edit]
A consensus will not develop to post a blurb on the main page.--WaltCip (talk) 12:05, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Sridevi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 The Rambling Man (talk) 23:49, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Blurb - She was one of the best known comedians from Indian cinema and her career spanned several decades. She was the winner of several awards and played in numerous cult movies in both Hindi and Tamil. The article on her is detailed and well sourced --Manish2542 (talk) 02:13, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Manish2542: As this is a Recent Deaths nomination, support on the merits is not required; this will be posted once there is a quality update. 331dot (talk) 02:16, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Numancia: Virtually unknown outside India? I'm from Mauritius where she is a household name just like in the whole of South Asia and everywhere where Indian films are watched. On the other hand, who is Billy Graham? Never heard of him before he somehow made the headlines on wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by Manish2542 (talk • contribs)
  • Well, I'm Canadian and I've heard of her. Every major media outlet here reported her death. Never heard of Graham though. 75.102.128.35 (talk) 17:49, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb, support RD this is what RD is for. For anyone tempted to scream about "American bias" and "Billy Grahm" pull that one and move it to RD. Per WP:USGOVERNMENTSHUTDOWN we now pull stories that have faded from the headlines, so go for it. --76.122.98.135 (talk) 14:22, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support Blurb - The article is well referenced and of good quality, when considered on standalone basis. The actor was very popular in Bollywood in 80s and 90s. Making headlines and quite referenced in the subcontinent, the Middle East, and the leading US and UK publications ( CNN, Fox News, BBC News, The Guardian, Sky News, ABC News). The death was untimely which shocked everyone in India resulting in the outpouring of tributes. And regarding the popularity of the actor, one must have the knowledge on what Bollywood is all about!!! If a nomination in recent past did not make through, does not imply it will also not go through (US government Shut down was poplular but was not expected and did not make any short term impact).

Let's not delay the publishing of the post. We have enough support for publishing it to the ITN Regards, theTigerKing  16:04, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

At least two of the supports above are actually opposes as of right now, because they are conditional on referencing being improved (Black Kite and BabbaQ). Pawnkingthree (talk) 16:38, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Stormy clouds: It's not about who YOU know. She is known to hundreds of millions of movie fans in the world. And don't you get it? Noone ever heard of Billy Graham outside the US before you decided to prostitute your evangelist in the headlines.

@Manish2542: - I'm not American, though, something which you easily could have checked before your facetious and aggressive comment. As a non-American, I can tell you, without bias, that Graham is more notable, as I have to study him extensively for my history syllabus. He was at the top of his field, and was a figure of world-changing impact for evangelicals. Sridevi simply never reached that threshold. Being known to millions of movie fans does not guarantee notability - preaching to 2.2 billion, including multiple presidents, does. And please sign your posts, particularly when critiquing/making insinuations about other editors. Stormy clouds (talk) 08:21, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Changing my vote on notability to neutral due to the death seemingly being of non-natural causes (I'd put this on par with Heath Ledger, maybe?); but we are still miles away on the references. GCG (talk) 16:25, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@GreatCaesarsGhost: Can you explain what was noteworthy about the death of Billy Graham? Double standards.

@Manish2542: - First, please sign your comments inline. Second, give and get respect. By accusing me of double standards, you are not assuming good faith. I supported Billy Graham under the ITNRD qualification of a "major transformative world leaders in their field" which I believe Graham to be. Sridevi does not begin to fit this standard, even within India. We may consider her for a blurb under the standard of "the unexpected death of prominent figures by murder, suicide, or major accident." I'm conceding that she is a "prominent figure." Her death appears to be accidental, but not the result of a "major" accident (this implies a plane crash or similar). I think there might be a gap for this if the investigation becomes scandalous (murder? overdose? suicide?) This is all moot, as the article is woefully under-cited. If you care so much about this getting posting, help fix the article. Western actors get left off RD all the time for lack of refs. GCG (talk) 21:22, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. She has appeared in more than 300 films in Hindi and other languages.-Nizil (talk) 13:59, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb once lede is referenced If she was American, it probably would be posted already. That's impossible to eliminate, because many editors are from the US, but it can be counterbalanced, by improving and posting the articles of non-Americans. India is the second-largest English speaking country. That said, though, the lede is still unreferenced. -A lad insane (Channel 2) 15:24, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    A few points: no, it wouldn't already have been posted, and this is in no way related to any "bias", there's clear consensus in favour of the article being posted, but there's a great big orange maintenance tag on it which means no right-minded admin would ever promote it to the main page. No, we don't need to reference the lead. The lead should only contain information that's expanded upon in the main body, so referencing material there rather than in the lead is commonplace (just check any number of featured articles). Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:51, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If she was American, people would have sourced it already. Or for that matter, countless editors could come out of the woodwork and insist that it be posted despite the referencing problems, like happened in December 2016 (to quote Carcharoth from then, objectivity takes a back seat to subjectivity.) It shouldn't be posted in its current state. But American bias trumps all, apparently (based on 2016). -A lad insane (Channel 2) 22:08, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: I think you don't get it. There can be no better references! The only ones you will have are from movie related indian magazines. If you are waiting for the New York Times and Newsweek, that won't happen. In short, if Sridevi, arguably the first female superstar of Indian cinema doesn't even get an RD two days after her death, it means that no other indian actor will ever get one. While we are here discussing, an unknown british actress got to be in the RD. What you are saying to the world is that even third-category western actors are more noteworthy that first category indian actors. That's more than shameful, that's simply racist. Probably she is also too Hindu for the admirers of Billy Graham... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Manish2542 (talk • contribs)

Manish2542 I suggest you read WP:V and then WP:ITNRD before continuing to make false claims and false accusations and personal attacks. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:38, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • RD is fine once the article is up to scratch, but I oppose a blurb. We should never have given Graham a blurb; let's not compound that mistake by dropping the bar even lower. Blurbs are for transformative world leaders (Thatcher, Mandela), not popular entertainers. Modest Genius talk 16:30, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"We should never have" -- Yet we have. As we have with Carrie Fisher. As we have with Christopher Lee. As we have with Gunter Grass. Your Thatcher/Mandela standard does not exist. It is utterly bunk.--WaltCip (talk) 17:18, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe you disagree with my interpretation, but the criterion listed at WP:ITN/DC continues to be 'major transformative world leaders'. I think that has been ignored or watered down too many times, and will continue to assess blurb nominations by the actual criteria. Modest Genius talk 18:29, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You missed out "in their field." Consensus was that Graham was a "transformative world leader" in the field of Evangelical Protestantism. Also Bowie, Prince and Chuck Berry, while "popular entertainers" were without doubt transformative.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 18:55, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Pawnkingthree: Transformative means Western, we got it. Just like Gandhi was passed on for the Nobel Prize for Peace because he wasn't transformative enough... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Manish2542 (talk • contribs)
I'm fairly sure that if ITN/C had been around in 1948 Gandhi would have got a blurb.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 21:08, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Pawnkingthree: How kind of you. Thank you, sahib. Some chai with your scone?. I'm out of here, namaste Manish2542 (talk) 21:29, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, the nationalities of RDs posted this month: Australia, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Canada, Chile, China (4), Iceland, India, Indonesia, Ireland (2), Pakistan (2), Russia, Sweden, Tunisia, UK (2), USA (10). Not posted: Canada (2), Cuba, Denmark, Ghana, Nederlands, UK, USA (5), Zimbabwe. Pending: China, India. If you can find bias in there, you gotta be working for it. (aside: nice work, ITNC!) GCG (talk) 21:46, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This article is certainly notable for a blurb. For those who say that Graham was more notable, see this. 2.51.20.15 (talk) 18:17, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Page views should not necessarily be considered at ITN, as this could lead to systematic bias. If this were the case, Black Panther would merit a blurb at present. Stormy clouds (talk) 18:33, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, but many others were saying above that she wasn't much notable and her death wasn't covered in mainstream sources. It was, in BBC, NyT etc, and I just wanted to prove the point of global notability, when someone said more people know Graham than Sridevi, to which I disagree. I mean, Indians are 17 percent of the globe, compared to the much lesser number of Australians. 2.51.20.15 (talk) 20:49, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • COMMENT PLEASE READ THIS -> the article is too poor to even consider posting. All the dross above about systemic bias, inherent racism, and other such nonsense is actually completely irrelevant. For all the supporters of this individual, spend your time fixing the article rather than telling the rest of us why Wikipedia is broken because it won't post a hopelessly crap article to the main page. Once all the unreferenced material is referenced, it can go as RD. If you don't like the fact we don't post unreferenced crap to the main page either change the relevant guidelines and policies, or find another Wikipedia or project to work on where standards are lower. I understand that de.wiki and fr.wiki will post just about anything their main pages, so maybe that's a good place to start. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:04, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: Contempt much appreciated. Western-centric references are not an absolute sign of quality. If I may repeat myself. YOU WILL NEVER HAVE BETTER REFERENCES. She was an Indian star, these are the only references you will ever have not forgetting that she was mostly active in the 1980s and 1990s at a time when Indian magazines didn't publish online. Western-centrism masquerading as "serious work" remains western-centrism. In any case, the story is stale now. "Create your own wikipedia"?, like how afro-american actors created their own awards to counter bias at the oscars? Today it's more subtle, now an objectively major indian celebrity gets cast away in the name of "good references" which should be understood as "indian references are worthless". And yes, don't accuse us of personal attacks, you just did it yourself. Manish2542 (talk) 05:42, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just as a heads up, TRM does not like being the target of false accusations, so you might want to strike that last sentence unless you can substantiate your claim. I see no personal attacks by TRM in the post to which you were responding. Lepricavark (talk) 06:05, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Does anyone like being the target of false accusations? The difference is those who falsely accuse or personally attack me usually end up being rebuked and punished. There's no contempt in my post, no personal attack, please read WP:NPA to familiarise yourself with what constitutes a PA, and then check your own posts. Last chance. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:38, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, I disagree - this is what RD is for. There would have to be overwhelming support for a blurb to override the normal RD posting, and I don't see that above. Tone made the right call.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:13, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The blurb supports never rationalized their argument under generally accepted rules or guidelines. If they want to IAR, fine but they have to say that, and give everyone else a chance to respond to that argument. I've made my own argument, the key point of which is an accidental one-off death is not blurb worthy, per se. Otherwise we'd be posting mid-range celebrities who die of an OD, or as a result of a fall in their later years. GCG (talk) 13:59, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per Banedon and WaltCip. I'm aware that "if we posted X, then we should post Y" is not a strict rule here, but the double standard is very noticeable here. Sridevi's death is far more notable than Billy Graham's. Davey2116 (talk) 22:21, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I just took another look at the article. While I am neutral on the merits of a blurb, the first consideration when looking at any nomination here at ITNC is article quality. It pains me to say this, but I have to stand by my earlier oppose. The gaps in referencing would preclude any other nomination from being posted to RD much less a blurb. This article still needs considerable work if it is to be posted on the main page. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:36, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I concur. There are still many unreferenced claims in this BLP. Never mind, it'll slip away in a few days. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:43, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Sridevi was the first female superstar of Bollywood. She was also one of the most popular actresses in India and have acted in many popular movies. Sridevi's article is also properly sourced. Wiki.editAnshu (talk) 06:14, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Why "needs attention?" Clearly this is never going to reach consensus for a blurb. Should we just close it? GCG (talk) 19:54, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this should be closed. There is no consensus for a blurb. Lepricavark (talk) 20:11, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • How is there no consensus? A rough count of the !votes for a blurb (i.e., not counting "oppose on article quality", since the article is now adequate, and counting "support for RD only" as "oppose blurb") gives 14 supports and 6 opposes. Davey2116 (talk) 20:57, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm certainly not seeing 99.5%, nor am I seeing 70%. Many people voted for RD, a few voted strongly for a blurb, a few voted strongly against a blurb. It was more 50/50 to me. This is lingering now, and sadly so. Time to move on people. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:37, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's no consensus because many of those above with simple Support votes were voting for an RD - which was what this discussion is. The actual "Support blurb" (including "support blurb when referenced" are about 11 or 12 out of 28. That's nowhere near consensus, I'm afraid. Black Kite (talk) 21:49, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I counted all the supports that mentioned her notability as "support blurb". If a !vote was for RD only, then there would have been no need to mention her notability. Davey2116 (talk) 00:11, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

For those questioning her notability, she was cremated with full state honours in India. That could be the phrasing of a blurb. Manish2542 (talk) 21:38, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If the article is deemed to be good enough for the main page in terms of referencing now, then strong support blurb. Sridevi's impact on redefining gender roles in the world's biggest film industry and how female actors would be cast and treated from then on was monumental. Gizza (t)(c) 08:23, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] RD: Yang Rudai

[edit]
Article: Yang Rudai (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Xinhua
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Zanhe (talk) 22:43, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: I was adding the source at the same moment you were writing your comment. Please check again. -Zanhe (talk) 23:02, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support good work. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:17, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Emma Chambers

[edit]
Article: Emma Chambers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Although she died on the 21st it was not announced until today. The article needs more sources (which I'll get to later, I don't have time right now), but is reasonably comprehensive if not astounding. Obits will help with this of course. Thryduulf (talk) 19:54, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Ongoing: Rif Dimashq offensive (February 2018)

[edit]
Article: Rif Dimashq offensive (February 2018) (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This high-casualty military action has been in the headlines for the past week. Article seems adequate at the current time. LukeSurl t c 16:15, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 23

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February 23, 2018 (2018-02-23) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

[Closed] Ongoing: Battle of Khasham

[edit]
As pointed out by !votes below, this item is not ongoing. There is also no consensus to post the item. Stormy clouds (talk) 15:48, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Battle of Khasham (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): [1] [2] [3]
Credits:
Nominator's comments: The battle itself is long over but there's a surprisingly large amount of ongoing coverage. Details are murky. If indeed Russian mercenaries intentionally attacked a US base that should be pretty significant. Somewhat hesitant about this but nominating it to see what ITN thinks. Banedon (talk) 00:49, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • No It happened on February 7th. I would have supported it 2 weeks ago. But it's not ongoing, and the oldest ITN piece we have right now is the school shooting in florida, which happened like 10 days after the battle. If I were you and was interested in the syrian war, I'd nominate the SAA intervention in Afrin. Seems like the absolute madmen actually did it and that's actually hug news and a severe blow to the american attempts to destabilize the country and put as many of their bases there as possible. Karl.i.biased (talk) 01:53, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose "Ongoing" means the event, not the coverage. GCG (talk) 12:57, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose decidedly not ongoing. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:00, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

February 22

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February 22, 2018 (2018-02-22) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Posted] RD: Richard E. Taylor

[edit]
Article: Richard E. Taylor (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Washington Post
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Nobel Prize-winning physicist who was part of the group who discovered quarks. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:50, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Stéphane Valeri elected as the new president of Monaco's National Council

[edit]
Articles: Stéphane Valeri (talk · history · tag) and National Council (Monaco) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Stéphane Valeri is elected as the president of the National Council of Monaco. (Post)
News source(s): "Stéphane Valeri élu président du Conseil national". Nice Matin. February 22, 2018. Retrieved February 24, 2018.
Credits:

Article updated

 We rarely post anything about Monegasque politics and while it is a small principality, it is home to many (billionaire) investors who play a huge role in our capitalist system globally. Valeri ran on a "Monaco first" platform.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:21, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Przewalski's horse

[edit]
Proposed image
Articles: Przewalski's horse (talk · history · tag) and Wild horse (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Genetic studies determine the Przewalski's horse (pictured) to be a feral horse and not the last extant undomesticated wild horse. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Przewalski's horse is reclassified as a feral horse, making the wild horse extinct.
News source(s): Science, Times, Independent, Sky News, Science Daily
Credits:

Both articles need updating

Nominator's comments: Potentially major change published in the peer-reviewed Science, but I'm putting this before updating just in case. Brandmeistertalk 11:58, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Random flight/train crashes aren't really that interesting either.. Galobtter (pingó mió) 15:40, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are many wholly unreferenced paragraphs in the Przewalski's horse article. In general, I'm in agreement with User:Signedzzz about the likely interest there is in this story. --LukeSurl t c 15:31, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Although I would probably argue this event is notable, it has enough problems as to make fixing the article a job for editors experienced in the subject, and unless you can find an editor who is willing to take the time, I cannot support it. Inatan (talk) 15:40, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional Oppose. The article about the horse is busting at the seams. Although nevertheless an intriguing (and somewhat tragic) discovery, it is largely trivial and arbitrary. Although covered in several science papers and websites, most conventional news and media are turning away from this discovery, and those that do cover it are not front page news, this is what turns me off. SamaranEmerald (talk) 17:32, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@SamaranEmerald Coverage does not constitute whether or not an event is ITN worthy, I have seen world events before that that were posted on ITN and yet received barely any coverage. Kirliator (talk) 17:40, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 21

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February 21, 2018 (2018-02-21) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations
Politics and elections

[Posted] Billy Graham

[edit]
closing down to put an end to pointless off-topic discussions. --Jayron32 18:51, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Jay – The last four posts were not off-topic. Sca (talk) 21:44, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Billy Graham (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Billy Graham, widely regarded as the most influential preacher of the 20th century, dies at the age of 99. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ U.S. Christian evangelist Billy Graham, known for his mass-proselytizing crusades, dies at age 99.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Billy Graham, widely regarded as the most influential Evangelical preacher of the 20th century, dies at the age of 99.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
 The Rambling Man (talk) 13:43, 21 February 2018 (UTC) + — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 14:48, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We should just delete that section; most of those awards probably aren't notable anyway.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:58, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Quite a big deal, and the article is OK. Guy (Help!) 13:46, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support on article quality. There are a handful of spots where a cite is needed but overall the article is in good condition and these can be quickly fixed. Support Blurb on the importance of the subject. Graham was an absolutely iconic figure both in the United States and globally and will certainly be remembered as one of the great figures in the history of Evangelical Protestantism. Unquestionably meets our criteria for a blurb. -Ad Orientem (talk) 13:50, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD A couple of CN tags but nothing that should prevent posting in my view. Neutral about a blurb; I concede he was influential within he's field but he's hardly a global icon in the mould of Mandela.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:58, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. He is easily the most recognized clergyman in the world excepting only the Pope. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:02, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps I'm an ignorant neophyte, but I have to admit this is the first time I've heard of or seen the name "Billy Graham".--WaltCip (talk) 14:05, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. I had never heard of him before I moved to the US.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:06, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb Curious how old these editors are. I'm 38 and definitely caught Graham in his waning years; any younger and he may seem irrelevant. But his influence was massive and global for decades. GCG (talk) 14:13, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm 41, if you must know :-)--Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:17, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
He was 99 and has been semi-retired for a long time. Also (and I am not making any assumptions regarding anyone's personal beliefs here) people who are religiously indifferent or are non-believers aren't likely to keep tabs on famous clergy. I am also quite sure there are people who have no idea who Nelson Mandella was. In fact I am fairly sure two such are relatives of mine. :-( -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:18, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I support inclusion as main news. For those who have never heard of him, then perhaps the inclusion of the news will address our appalling and immense ignorance about religion and religious men. werldwayd (talk) 15:20, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb - not a fan of the man's work, but his notability is unquestionable. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 14:19, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • Notability is not a question here. It is how much of an impact on the world that his death has/may create. He was 99 so his death was not surprising (I had thought he passed already), and while its still early in the news cycle, I'm not seeing the type of shock and awe we'd associate with a blurb-worthy posting like Mandala/Thatcher or Bowie/Prince/Williams. --Masem (t) 14:23, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      • Actually, with rare exceptions the standard is not the impact of their death, but rather their life. Madella's death was long expected and had virtually no impact as he had long retired from politics. We typically give blurbs to people who were in the top tier of their field. Graham unquestionably fits that criteria. It is of course also true that we occasionally give blurbs in cases where a very well known figure dies unexpectedly. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:30, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      • (edit conflict) "shock and awe" has never been a requirement for posting a blurb on ITN, and for good reason. Shock and awe is a military doctrine based on the use of overwhelming power, dominant battlefield awareness, dominant maneuvers, and spectacular displays of force to paralyze an adversary's perception of the battlefield and destroy its will to fight. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 14:34, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Billy Graham is a world-famous white Christian Evangelical who I don't think is a raving right-wing fruit-loop. That's notable in itself ;-) One would like to think he would at least attempt a cup of tea and a sit-down with Richard Dawkins without each other screaming at 120 decibels. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:34, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Again, the standard is being misstated. It is not "world changing," Mandella did not change the world. He changed his country. The standard has always been that the subject is generally recognized as being in the top tier of their profession. World changing is silly. We would have a death blurb maybe once a decade if that. And virtually everyone outside the field of politics would be excluded. Graham definitely meets the traditional criteria we have always applied here for a blurb. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:42, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree in almost every way. I'll just point you to WP:ITN/DC which states that blurbs are limited to "major transformative world leaders", which Graham was not. You can't narrow things down to a tiny field just to claim this person was important. In a century's time, people will still be talking about Nelson Mandela. They will not be talking about an obscure preacher. Modest Genius talk 14:51, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If you believe that Billy Graham was an obscure preacher than all I can say is that we do not inhabit the same world and further discussion is pointless. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:54, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb According to WP:ITN, blurbs are for the deaths of "major transformative world leaders in their field" and in the field of religion, Billy Graham meets this standard. Additionally, his death is receiving substantial coverage around the world [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10], [11]. SpencerT♦C 14:39, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb "He was widely regarded as the most influential preacher of the 20th century" from his biography says it all, biggest christian figure of the 20th century. Claims that he is a obscure preacher are outright laughable and i am not even close to being near the US. Here's a bit from an article i read about his death "Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. counted Graham as a close friend and ally, once remarking, “Had it not been for the ministry of my good friend Dr. Billy Graham, my work in the Civil Rights Movement would not have been as successful as it has been." GuzzyG (talk) 14:55, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb we might as well quit doing these blurbs altogether if this one isn't posted. Lepricavark (talk) 15:00, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment RD or blurb, there's gaps in sourcing throughout, and all the list of honors at the ends needs sourcing before this can be posted. --Masem (t) 15:02, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Too soon to judge about a blurb (I'm usually the first one opposing them, so maybe he does deserve one). News seems to be recent, let's wait a little and reassess? – Muboshgu (talk) 15:07, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD. Oppose blurb. Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. is the person with a statue in Washington DC and a U.S. national holiday. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:13, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Dr. King is honored for his social/political activism, not his influence in religion. If he were remembered chiefly for his influence in religion he would not have a statue paid for with public funds. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:16, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support. Article should be highlighted as leading news. As a minimum, his name should be mentioned as Recent deaths. werldwayd (talk) 15:16, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb international transformative impact in the field of religion far beyond his roots in the American South or even his denomination. One quibble though, I think it worth noting that he is considered the most Protestant preacher of the 20th century for NPOV reasons. One could reasonably argue that John Paul II brought down the Soviet Union with his preaching (not an argument I am making, but one that has been made in reliable sources), and I am sure that there are Orthodox clerics who one could argue with as well (Ad Orientem would likely be better at thinking of them than I am, to my shame.) @The Rambling Man and Coffee: what are your thoughts on this? TonyBallioni (talk) 15:19, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • Prefer alt: that has recently been added by Ad for NPOV reasons. I didn't even begin to get into non-Christian preachers (which reasonably would include clerics of other religions whose preaching has also had an impact (positive or negative) on world events comparable to Graham. I think the sourcing would generally agree he was the most influential evangelical preacher, and this is typically what is being referenced, even if in shorthand. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:33, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb - Graham is the single most influential preacher of the last 50+ years and unlike most famous "pastors" was near universally respected. --ThaddeusB (talk) 15:20, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Altblurb – Long a household name in the U.S. and fairly widely known internationally. Altblurb offered to avoid subjective "widely regarded ... most influential," which smacks of hagiography. (Is no recent pic available? This one is 52 years old.) Sca (talk) 15:23, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I do not see any altblurb.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:26, 21 February 2018 (UTC) Ad Orientem has added one, although it doesn't address the hagiography issue.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:33, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
⇒ Somehow mine got overwritten. Now restored above and Ad Orientem's moved down as Alt2. Sca (talk) 15:45, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I remember being dumb-founded thinking that Superstar Billy Graham was going to proselytizing on prime time TV. GCG (talk) 16:22, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • As an anonymous poster, I don't think my voice should weigh too much... but I do come here on occassion to see the discussion on cases which I think are notable enough to get a blurb. I'm glad to see that most of the people posting here seem to be getting it right. Graham was knighted by Queen Elizabeth and spoke to over 120K at a rally in England---the largest religious rally at the time in English history.74.124.47.10 (talk) 15:41, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted with a simpler version of altblurb2. Obvious overwhelming support for posting a blurb but keeping this open for any additional comments. -- Fuzheado | Talk 15:52, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support blurb - It's interesting to see a lot of people who do not regularly participate in ITN/C come out of the woodwork to support a blurb for this person. That may speak volumes to his outreach. Moreover, to my relief, it may represent a loosening of the blurb standard so that we get out of this "Thatcher, Mandela, Thatcher, Mandela" mantra we otherwise seem to be constantly stuck in.--WaltCip (talk) 15:54, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting Comment Post Posting Oppose blurb on article quality His well-known homophobia is not referenced even once. His misogynistic views are skated over. Article is incomplete. Black Kite (talk) 16:39, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I recognize that the "if x then y" argument does not apply in ITN. However, I nonetheless find it seriously off-kilter that Le Guin's death was rejected for a blurb while Graham's is almost immediately posted -- and that the arguments for each are almost mirror-image. U.S. residents may have failed to notice that Graham's primary impact was almost totally inside the U.S. (In secondary impact, eg. charitable organisations working abroad, his work is comparable to dozens if not hundreds of others.) He did establish a number of successful firsts in the field of evangelical religion, mostly related to commercializing it. Others have done similar things before him, less successfully. Others have gone considerably further than him since then. He is a significant marker in a U.S.-based roadmap which goes back to Civil War England, but within the broad view he is only another such marker. (Religious rallies of that nature actually go back in the U.S. at least as far as the U.S. Civil War -- and most of those who held them then are forgotten today.)
At a neutral WP, we obviously don't use "For those who have never heard of him, then perhaps the inclusion of the news will address our appalling and immense ignorance about religion and religious men" as a criterion. (Probably just as well, or else the words "appalling and immense ignorance" might well resonate with other decisions which have been made here.) With Le Guin, I suggested two objective measures for a writer which would be necessary for a blurb: academic analysis and marketplace analysis. The comparable objective measures for Graham would be worldwide media coverage of his death (not just the U.S.) and an identifiable widespread social change brought about specifically as a result of his work. For Graham, I see significance, but I don't see worldwide reaction in any way comparable to the U.S. versions, and I don't see a clear social change which can be laid specifically at his door. That kind of thing merits an RD, not a blurb. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 16:49, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
On no planet and in no town is Guin more known/notable then Graham, it's not about religion either. You're comparing a genre writer to a major preacher who advised MLK and presidents. GuzzyG (talk) 17:07, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It is not my fault if you cannot remember all the literature you should have studied in high school. How many English-language U.S. schoolchildren have there been since 1969? That is the minimum number of how many people ought to know of Le Guin. It is one of the basic texts, after all. L-i-t-e-r-a-t-u-r-e, not "genre". - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 18:47, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, i am in Australia and that's the thing, i know Graham but not Le Guin, also F-a-n-t-a-s-y and s-c-i-e-n-c-e f-i-c-t-i-o-n writers are genre writers, sorry to say. GuzzyG (talk) 18:56, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
He was a lot more than just a minister, he ministered to 2.2 billion people. His social views are not relevant to the fact that he was influential. 331dot (talk) 17:38, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That makes it worse.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:41, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We're not here to right the great wrong of homophobia. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:59, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nor should we post POV-pushing blurbs on the main page.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:01, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it's POV to call him influential. He was incredibly influential, as evidenced by his personal relationships with Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon. People can judge for themselves his best and worst qualities. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:05, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No. Influential in the United States perhaps. Not influential in Monaco, believe me. We are not USApedia. If we are going to keep the word "influential", the blurb should read "in the United States" after "influential" at least.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:09, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oy, not this argument again. Influence is influence, even if it doesn't touch every country. Maybe he was/is influential to Christians in Monaco, I don't know that. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:25, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No he was only influential to the 2.2 billion people living in the United States. - Floydian τ ¢ 18:31, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I am very, very uncomfortable with the notion that being a Christian minister disqualifies one from a blurb. Lepricavark (talk) 18:12, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We don't usually post blurbs for RDs. He was not well-known outside the US, and he spread discrimination to boot. There shouldn't be a blurb. We will post a blurb when former president GHW Bush dies--I am sorry but Billy Graham was not on the same level at all.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:22, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure if we will, though. Bush was a one-term president, and he was widely perceived to be riding on the political coattails of Ronald Reagan, who himself would be blurb-worthy.--WaltCip (talk) 18:27, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Questions 1) The blurb feels a bit weasely to me: "one of the most influential" is not a wording that's commonly seen on the main page. The quote is present in the article, but it is sourced to one book, which seems to be some biography published last summer. 2) In any case, should the blurb be "one of the most influential evangelical preachers of the 20th century in the United States"? I must admit I've never heard of him before, so I'm not sure about his international reach. Isa (talk) 17:42, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Altblurb would be more NPOV than Altburb2 for sure. Except we should add, "known in the United States".Zigzig20s (talk) 17:46, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
⇒ Agree with Isa that "one of the most influential evangelical preachers" is too weasely. While I understand Fuzheado's motives in toning down the description, I think it comes across as a rather obvious bid to avoid criticism of a subjective assertion. I would point out that Alt1 is entirely factual. Sca (talk) 18:47, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Withdrawn] Thomas C. Wales case

[edit]
Withdrawn by nominator. 331dot (talk) 12:23, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Thomas C. Wales (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The United States' FBI indicates the unsolved slaying of Thomas C. Wales, the only federal prosecutor ever assassinated, was probably carried out by a professional hit man. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the United States, law enforcement announce the unsolved murder of government official Thomas C. Wales may have involved a conspiracy among a small group of people.
News source(s): Seattle Times
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: An update into a criminal investigation may not normally be newsworthy, however, given this was a high-profile assassination that has been unsolved for 16 years, and the recent announcement the only significant update on the case in that time, I think it warrants an ITN mention even though it is US-centric. Chetsford (talk) 04:27, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The issue is not that it's US centric, but more that it has no notability outside of a specific minute niche of interest.--WaltCip (talk) 11:58, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I understand that, but the nominator mentioned "US centric" as a concern, I was simply informing them that is not an issue. 331dot (talk) 12:00, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well I'm not sure there's a BLP issue here since the B is about someone who is decidedly not L. That said, the reasoning presented has changed my mind as to the utility of this as an ITN candidate and I withdraw the nomination. Chetsford (talk) 12:01, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Chetsford: The BLP issue is with regards to any suspect their is; posting a development in any criminal cases could suggest the suspect is guilty before their case is adjudicated, which we cannot do. 331dot (talk) 12:20, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think there's any suspect(s), but I suppose I could be wrong. Chetsford (talk) 12:22, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

February 20

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February 20, 2018 (2018-02-20) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

February 19

[edit]
February 19, 2018 (2018-02-19) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

[Posted] RD: Sergey Litvinov

[edit]
Article: Sergey Litvinov (athlete, born 1958) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN CTV L'Equipe
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Olympic gold medal winner and world champion. I've sourced this as far as it needs. It might need a little tweaking but the basics are there. Black Kite (talk) 12:57, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 18

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February 18, 2018 (2018-02-18) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

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Sports

[Posted] RD: Idrissa Ouedraogo

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Idrissa Ouédraogo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety; AP (via NZ Herald)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 — Hugh (talk) 20:46, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Peggy Cooper Cafritz

[edit]
Article: Peggy Cooper Cafritz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:45, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] 71st British Academy Film Awards

[edit]
Article: 71st British Academy Film Awards (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri wins five awards, including Best Film, at the 71st British Academy Film Awards. (Post)
News source(s): Screendaily
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 JuneGloom07 Talk 21:25, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

''[[Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri]]'' wins five awards, including [[BAFTA Award for Best Film|Best Film]], at the '''[[71st British Academy Film Awards]]'''
— Hugh (talk) 19:27, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The movie should be italicized, and I've added the italics in the blurb above. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:03, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Muboshgu: Looks like those concerns have been addressed since we !voted. The article seems to be at a similar level to last year's. --Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:15, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Article is much improved. Support. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:35, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Iran Aseman Airlines Flight 3704

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Iran Aseman Airlines Flight 3704 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Iran Aseman Airlines Flight 3704 (aircraft pictured) crashes in the Zagros Mountains killing all 66 people on board. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Iran Aseman Airlines Flight 3704 crashes in the Zagros Mountains, with 65 people on board
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Early reports, article obviously needs updates as does blurb when they decide no-one survived. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:57, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just made the wording more standard and straightforward, as in the Saratov Airlines crash. Brandmeistertalk 09:56, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Has now been corrected. I've pasted in the new blurb as ALT above. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:27, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just be careful when deleting references which are used multiple times. I fixed two orphaned references that you removed when the numbers changed. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:44, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure whether it's better to be half right or half wrong. One of those has since been binned. So we're left with two that contradict the content. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:45, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just because the numbers didn't add up, the other details were used throughout the article. Please don't summarily delete named references without checking the mess you leave afterwards. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:59, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for making it look tidy. I'd be reluctant to deliberately re-add links with incorrect information for something that's on the main page. Those sources are still wrong. I thought you might have had an opinion on the new blurb. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:05, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to do with it looking neat, it's to do with replacing references you summarily deleted. The sources may be out of date, but that's commonplace with ITN items. The references were used for other verification, so please don't do that again without fixing the issues you leave. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:09, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
They're still wrong. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:19, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Then feel free to fix them, but don't just delete them when they're used to reference other items in the article. Thanks again! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:34, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free also, as nominator. Although the original blurb we had now seems less than ideal for some reason. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:06, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't follow you. The published blurb is fine, the news sources naturally differ on their numbers because of the situation, the original blurb has been superseded. Do you have something to add that benefits our readers here? The Rambling Man (talk) 22:12, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't follow me. I just make a mess, it seems. But at the article talk page you tell us the original blurb was "bullshit"? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:15, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You did make a mess. And don't do it again. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:17, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And good luck with future nominating blurbs. "Thanks again". Martinevans123 (talk) 22:27, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't need luck, and please don't make any more of those kinds of edits. You made a mess. I fixed it. If you need help with how to use named references, feel free to drop me a line. Thanks again. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:30, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I have a number of lines in mind already. Thanks for just letting go with this so quickly, after giving just a subtle hint of wrongdoing. Would anyone care to hat this? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:35, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment this line of "conversation" is going nowhere, could an uninvolved editor close down the nomination please, the referencing issues have been temporarily resolved. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:34, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 17

[edit]
February 17, 2018 (2018-02-17) (Saturday)
Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Closed] Sheep human embryo

[edit]
No consensus to post an announcement at a science conference. Stephen 23:53, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Sheep (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Scientists in Scotland successfully grow the first sheep embryo containing the cells of humans. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian The Telegraph
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: Not sure what the best target article(s) should be so I just linked Sheep for now. Feel free to suggest better articles that you know of. Andise1 (talk) 00:36, 19 February 2018 (UTC) (UTC)[reply]
I agree on that about the substantial update; and realistically I cannot see this being significant until it is attempts to transplant the sheep-grown element back to a human. Eg, ways off. Interesting, but not ITN material here. --Masem (t) 15:24, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - We can surely find a more reputable source for this research than Telegraph and Guardian. In any case, as per above, the research needs to be subject to peer review.--WaltCip (talk) 19:35, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted: Ongoing] 2018 Winter Olympics

[edit]
Article: Chronological summary of the 2018 Winter Olympics (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: I'm a bit surprised that this hasn't been added to ongoing as the Winter Olympics are underway and medals in several events have already been awarded. It's also a bit troublesome to navigate through the chronological summary without a direct link from the main page. --Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:02, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support pull and move to ongoing. This is the logical decision in my view. Stormy clouds (talk) 15:35, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose doing anything until this naturally rolls off the bottom of the list, and at that point we can shift it to ongoing. --Jayron32 15:26, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In my opinion, the suggested list of results (chronological summary) fails as an encyclopedic article and, as a stub, shouldn't be listed on the front page. Until proper prose sections are added, I believe 2018 Winter Olympics would be a more appropriate article to list on the front page. ~Mable (chat) 10:57, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, even if we need to apply a little WP:IAR to the normal rules for ITN. It is definitely "in the news", it is well-updated and referenced, and it condenses all the most information related to the broader topic that is in the news into one convenient yet informative article. I don't really see the need to pull the opening ceremony if this were posted to ongoing, but I would support it if that were necessary for some reason, as this is the part that is currently "in the news" and the article that would be much more difficult to find than (rather than the opening ceremony one). Canadian Paul 15:11, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note - I hope I'm not out of turn doing this, but as the opening cermony blurb is now the last item on the ticker, I figured this should be brought back up to the top for current discussion rather than remaining below, only to be seen by the oddly-timed watchlist entry with this section header. - Floydian τ ¢ 09:11, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support We've posted the summary page as ongoing for previous Olympics. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 13:37, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted as ongiong, as the blurb just rolled out of the ITN box. --Tone 20:59, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 16

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February 16, 2018 (2018-02-16) (Friday)
Armed conflict and attacks

Disasters and accidents

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Politics and elections

2018 Oaxaca earthquake

[edit]
Article: 2018 Oaxaca earthquake (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An earthquake strikes Oaxaca, Mexico, and a helicopter carrying government officials surveying the damage crashes and kills 14 people. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A helicopter carrying government officials surveying damage from an earthquake in Oaxaca, Mexico, crash-lands, killing 13 and injures 15 others on the ground.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: This is an unusual disaster: the strong earthquake did not kill anybody, but the helicopter crash killed 14. Zanhe (talk) 08:14, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - This earthquake incident is notable, article is not good shape.18:06, 18 February 2018 (UTC)BabbaQ (talk)
  • Oppose - the earthquake killed nobody, and is therefore not particularly notable and of minimal lasting impact. The helicopter crash is tangential, and would struggle to pass on notability as it was a plane crash involving government personnel, and had a low death toll compared to the other posted aviation incidents currently at ITN. Therefore, I oppose both items (they should really be considered separately) owing to a lack of lasting impact. Stormy clouds (talk) 19:25, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, but... If we took the earthquake out of the picture, and focus on the helicopter crash, which didn't kill anyone on board but killed 13 on the ground + about the same number injured, that would be seen as a notable air incident. The earthquake itself, while significant at 5.9, isn't that major. I do not think we want to create a separate article for the crash, it's linked to the quake, but I think we need to put the helicopter crash as the focus of the blurb. I've provided an alt blurb that puts the focus on the crash section of the article for this purpose. --Masem (t) 14:51, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per stormy and WP:AIRCRASH. Neither event is independently significant, and their confluence is not causal. GCG (talk) 20:57, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: earthquake certainly not notable, air crash may possibly be, but that doesn't have an article. Black Kite (talk) 00:07, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - as stale. Suggest closing. Jusdafax (talk) 13:10, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Leo Cahill

[edit]
Article: Leo Cahill (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Globe & Mail
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former CFL coach / General Manager. Not a long article by any means, but I have expanded it slightly and sourced everything. Floydian τ ¢ 09:16, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Lassie Lou Ahern

[edit]
Article: Lassie Lou Ahern (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:27, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

KP Sharma Oli appointed Nepal's new prime minister

[edit]
Article: Khadga Prasad Oli (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Khadga Prasad Oli sworn in as 41st prime minister of Nepal. (Post)
News source(s): (AZ), (THT), (NYT), (HT)
Credits:

 Biplab Anand (Talk) 06:55, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Conditional support: Head of government of a country but the article can use some references. Juxlos (talk) 09:20, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. Article needs a bunch of references; the Marxist Insurgency section, several paragraphs under the multi-party democracy section, and the entire electoral history section needs refs. --Jayron32 13:47, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The swearing-ins of heads of government are not normally posted, it's heads of state who are in the limelight. In this case, the Nepalese king president is the head of state. Brandmeistertalk 16:29, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    That's irrelevent. The swearing-ins of heads of government are not on ITNR. Which is meaningless in any discussion not involving ITNR. There are hundreds of items we post that are not covered by ITNR, we discuss them on their merits, and make the decision to post them without regard for anything except is the article quality good enough and is this a topic which is in the news. --Jayron32 17:43, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't recall seeing various swearing-ins of PMs on ITN. Nearly all countries have their own PMs who come and go and I don't see why this one is particularly special. Obviously, if we post every one of them, the main page would be overwhelmed. Brandmeistertalk 18:03, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    If Theresa May or Justin Trudeau was replaced, this would be an unanimous Support. They don't change that often. Juxlos (talk) 21:20, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 15

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February 15, 2018 (2018-02-15) (Thursday)
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Science and technology

[Closed] Ethiopia PM Hailemariam Desalegn resignation

[edit]
Close owing to lack of consensus. Stormy clouds (talk) 21:00, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Hailemariam Desalegn (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Hailemariam Desalegn resigns as Ethiopia's prime minister and chairman of EPRDF. (Post)
News source(s): (BBC), (DW), (VoA), (Fox news), (The Guardian)
Credits:
 Jenda H. (talk) 14:45, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

February 14

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February 14, 2018 (2018-02-14) (Wednesday)
Arts and culture

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Sports

[Posted] Florida school shooting

[edit]
Reclosing- Consensus is clear and there is no chance that this is going to be pulled. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:49, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Seventeen people are killed in a shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida (Post)
News source(s): ABC, New Zealand Herald,
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Safe to say this goes above "regular mass shooting" in the United States and is worth posting. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 23:19, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
17 people aren't killed every week at school in the US. MAINEiac4434 (talk) 23:36, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] Resignation of Jacob Zuma

[edit]
Article: Jacob Zuma (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ South African president Jacob Zuma resigns amid corruption claims. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ South African president Jacob Zuma resigns amid corruption claims and is succeeded by Cyril Ramaphosa.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Cyril Ramaphosa becomes president of South Africa after Jacob Zuma resigns amid corruption claims.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Perhaps we can create an article about his resignation. EternalNomad (talk) 21:20, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Add that I've always interpreted the head of state changing listing to simply mean "a change in head of state". 331dot (talk) 22:04, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No confusion required, this blurb isn't about "succession", it's about "resignation". We should all be able to see that. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:08, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Resignation includes succession, though yes the resignation is more important than the succession. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:53, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
⇒ Looks to be 2:1 in favor. Needs attn. Sca (talk) 15:14, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, not one single of those voting support have addressed the fact that the article has no fewer than 20 [citation needed] tags which, for a BLP, means it doesn't get posted. Full stop. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:17, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

RD/blurb: Morgan Tsvangirai

[edit]
Article: Morgan Tsvangirai (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Zimbabwean opposition activist and former prime minister Morgan Tsvangirai dies aged 65. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: He was internationally renowned for his opposition to the recently deposed Robert Mugabe. EternalNomad (talk) 19:32, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Stormy clouds is opposing a blurb, not RD on basis of notability. Galobtter (pingó mió) 07:41, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I oppose a blurb in any circumstance, as the notability is not there. I oppose an RD listing at present as, while assessing article quality in the course of my "research", I found it to be inadequate for listing at the main page. Thus, my vote echoes many above, andnis not seeking a suspension of the rules of RD - if quality improves, post as an RD. Thanks to @Galobtter: for the clarification which you offered to User:ChieftanTartarus on my behalf. Stormy clouds (talk) 10:19, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry but neither of you are making any sense to me, you're opposing the blurb on the case of notability? That just doesn't make sense in my opinion, that's still opposing something on the basis of notability whether its targeted at the RD or not. I don't understand what you're getting at here. Chieftain Tartarus (talk) 10:34, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@ChieftanTartarus: - I do not feel that Tsvangirai is a significant enough figure, as he lacks the notability to merit such a blurb. There is an informal Mandela-Thatcher-Bowie axis which is used to gauge whether or not the figure was transformative enough to deserve a blurb, and there is no way that this nomination surpasses this level of notability. Moreover, as 331dot alludes to, it was known that he was ill, so this is not a surprise and was expected to happen, meaning that there is minimal notability in this case. Thus, for a blurb, I agree with 331dot and Muboshgu that Tsvangirai does not merit a blurb, and will only receive an RD listing once the article has improved. Notability is not an issue for RD, but it absolutely is for a blurb. Stormy clouds (talk) 10:56, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Stormy clouds: I understand your point now, and I tend to agree with you that a blurb is not really suitable as we knew that he was ill for a long time, we were also told at the start of the month that he was critically ill so it isn't a surprise that he has passed. Chieftain Tartarus (talk) 12:32, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] RD: Ruud Lubbers

[edit]
No active improvements has been done with this entry, and there remains to be several outstanding issues. Closing as consensus is unlikely to emerge. Alex Shih (talk) 23:45, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Ruud Lubbers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NL Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Longest serving Dutch premier. Mjroots (talk) 17:20, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone who is notable gets an RD if their article is up to scratch.. Galobtter (pingó mió) 20:23, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
MAINEiac4434 I have no idea what you're talking about. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:50, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You said "most importantly, too much emphasis on the sexual harassment complaint" as if that was a reason not to RD. I disagree with that notion entirely. MAINEiac4434 (talk) 22:24, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
He's saying it's WP:UNDUE weight. That's a policy problem with the article. – Muboshgu (talk) 05:03, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The current list of recent deaths is a good example of the widely anticipated failure of the 2016 RD proposal. The deaths of Tsvangirai and Lubbers, both reported at news broadcastings around the world, are missing because of the endemic Wikipedia fallacy of preferring style over substance. Moreover, if one's concerned about the quality of the article, a mention on the front page will get a lot of editors interested in improving it. Afasmit (talk) 20:20, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Nonsense. Even before we had that RD proposal, we would still not accept badly written articles onto the main page. Particularly BLPs. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:26, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    P.S. "the widely anticipated failure" good one! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:32, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The article is mediocre, but this is a man who was Prime Minister of a world power for 12 years. If the article isn't good enough, efforts should be made to make it better because this is likely among the top 5 most notable people to die this month. 1779Days (talk) 04:45, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] Draft:United flight 1175

[edit]
Let it be moved to mainsapce first. It seems it can make it –Ammarpad (talk) 12:48, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: [[Draft:United flight 1175]] ([[Talk:Draft:United flight 1175|talk]] · [{{fullurl:Draft:United flight 1175|action=history}} history] · [{{fullurl:Talk:Draft:United flight 1175|action=edit&preload=Template:ITN_candidate/note&preloadtitle=In+the+news+nomination&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=%5B%5BDraft%3AUnited+flight+1175%5D%5D}} tag])
Blurb: ​ Engine Cover Blows Off on Draft:United flight 1175 (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Currently stubbish, but maybe someone more knowledgeable will pick this up. AyaanLamar (talk) 12:41, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

February 13

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February 13, 2018 (2018-02-13) (Tuesday)
Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

[Posted] RD: Dobri Dobrev

[edit]
Article: Dobri Dobrev (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): "Bulgarian beggar, dubbed a 'living saint', dies aged 103". New Strait Times. 14 February 2018. Retrieved 15 February 2018.
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Zigzig20s (talk) 14:54, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Zigzig20s: Kinda short, but I guess good enough. Need to cite about his father in WWI, and I don't like the "legacy" section at all. It's just a quote, with an internal link instead of a reference. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:00, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. His life was unusual enough where I think if someone fixes the 2 unreferenced sentences and perhaps adds a paragraph more, I would support it. He was rather well-known both in Bulgaria and outside of it. Inatan (talk) 16:52, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Inatan:, for future reference, see the bottom line in the template above, which says that "the nomination of any individual human, animal or other biological organism with a standalone Wikipedia article whose recent death is in the news is presumed to be important enough to post". The unusual nature of his life makes the article interesting despite its size, but isn't a factor in whether or not we should post it. Only the quality issues you and I have mentioned. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:03, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, thank you. Inatan (talk) 17:05, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Stale] RD: Prince Henrik of Denmark

[edit]
Seven days passed, no consensus has emerged and the RD entry is now stale. Alex Shih (talk) 23:41, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Henrik, Prince Consort of Denmark (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Kongehuset (Danish royal house)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 Grngu (talk) 03:53, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Um, "unconventionally supported?" Can you flesh out that thought a bit? GCG (talk) 12:47, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The way I'm reading it, some of the lists of honors are sourced by one reference preceding the list rather that per-title. That's fine. But there remain other more critical sourcing issues like the children/grandchildren and various CNs tags about. --Masem (t) 14:41, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It does not look like anyone will take the time to fix the issues soon. Inatan (talk) 16:48, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] RD: Marty Allen

[edit]
Article: Marty Allen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:20, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 12

[edit]
February 12, 2018 (2018-02-12) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Posted] RD: Fethia Mzali

[edit]
Article: Fethia Mzali (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): "Décès de la militante, ancienne présidente de l'UNFT et ancienne ministre de la Famille, Fethia Mzali". Huffington Post Maghreb. 12 February 2018. Retrieved 15 February 2018.; M'barek, Asma (12 February 2018). "Décès de Fethia Mzali". Radio Express. Retrieved 15 February 2018.; "FETHIA MZALI, PREMIÈRE FEMME MINISTRE DE L'HISTOIRE TUNISIENNE EST DÉCÉDÉE". Beur FM. 14 February 2018. Retrieved 15 February 2018.
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Zigzig20s (talk) 14:45, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Malacidins

[edit]
Article: Malacidin (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Scientists discover a new class of antibiotics, the malacidins. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The malacidins, a new class of antibiotics, are discovered.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The malacidins, a new class of antibacterial chemicals, are discovered.
News source(s): BBC, Nature Microbiology, The Independent
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Currently stubbish, but maybe someone more knowledgeable will pick this up. Brandmeistertalk 14:55, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support, in principle. The discovery of a new antibiotic is undoubtedly important (even if we don't yet know if it can be used safely in humans), but the article still needs expansion before it would be ready for posting. Dragons flight (talk) 16:24, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    This now has my full support. The article has been expanded adequately. The concerns about WP:MEDRS are overzealous in my opinion, since this microbiology discovery is still years away from human testing, let alone being used as a treatment. Because MEDRS requires literature reviews and other secondary peer-reviewed studies, adhering to that standard would essentially prevent any new discovery from appearing in ITN, and I don't consider that outcome to be reasonable when the discovery is still far removed from any practical medical application. All the information has been sourced, and I would recommend posting in spite of the citation tags asking for secondary medical sources, since such literature reviews simply won't yet exist for ITN worthy discoveries. Dragons flight (talk) 10:36, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I've added a section on their discovery which I believe helps to "dumb down" (at least, to the level that BBC was writing at which still was pretty high) the article to understand how these were found and their importance. --Masem (t) 16:30, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – major advancements in the medical field aren't terribly common and this seems worth posting. Amount of content in the article is borderline, but seems like just enough to me (>1,500 characters prose). ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 16:35, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - an interesting discovery which may turn out to be very important and a decent enough article. I've put down an alt-blurb because I dislike "Scientists discover" as a term. --LukeSurl t c 16:40, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Seeing a lot about this, article seems adequate. Vanamonde (talk) 16:54, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The article is very preliminary, and all of this is based on one research paper. Natureium (talk) 17:47, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is generally the point where any scientific discovery is posted at ITN - a peer-reviewed research paper that is also covered in mainstream publications. The fact that it's a Nature-published paper means that the peers do not likely believe the researchers are wrong that this is a new family of antibotics. --Masem (t) 17:56, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - adequate article even if short. Interesting discovery.BabbaQ (talk) 17:57, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I have no adequately educated opinion on this one, but consensus is clear. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:59, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - exciting new discovery. Article is short but adequate. -Zanhe (talk) 19:20, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Someone opened up discussion of this at WT:MED, where they are raising concerns about MEDRS issues. I personally don't think that's the case (Nature is on MEDRS), but may want to see their input here before posting. --Masem (t) 19:27, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    My personal opinion is that this is mostly a microbiology topic rather than a medicine one at this point. Right now there isn't a treatment available, or even a widely available compound that could be abused in untested treatments. Obviously, if things go well, the hope is to make a new treatment out of this, but treating this topic as medical information at this very preliminary stage feels like a bit of a stretch. Dragons flight (talk) 20:39, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I wholly agree with Dragons flight here and have removed the tags. This currently is an article about microbiology, not a medicine (and will remain so for at several years at the least). Nature Microbiology is pretty much as good as it gets here. —LukeSurl t c 21:31, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - an exciting discovery, happens rarely, has great implications. Banedon (talk) 20:00, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Article is currently tagged with possible issue of unreliable medical sources, talk at WT:MED about possible WP:NOTNEWS as well as needing genuine attestation by independent sources, this is not ready for mainpage actually. –Ammarpad (talk) 20:37, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • oppose blurb and alt blurb 1 -- the "excitement" here is exactly because we need new classes of chemistry for antibiotic drugs. It is kind of interesting from the standpoint of how some bacteria try to kill other kinds, but nobody really cares about that. The excitement is about the medical potential and the scariness of the "post antibiotic apocalypse" (actual phrase from the Independent article). And part of why MEDRS matters is keeping out all kinds of preliminary hype, be that from pharma or medical device shillers, or snake oil salespeople, or this kind of hype. Wikipeida's mission is to present articles that summarize accepted knowledge, not to be vehicle for hype. Jytdog (talk) 21:00, 13 February 2018 (UTC) (redact Jytdog (talk) 17:47, 15 February 2018 (UTC))[reply]
  • support alt blurb 2 in the spirit of trying to reach consensus. Jytdog (talk) 17:47, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • Mainstream coverage of science can go to hyperbole, no question the Independent here is opining that phrase. But we know we can avoid that here and stick to the relevant facts. From a scientific standpoint, it is a new class of antibiotics. It is comparable to discovering a new chemical element. Whether they end up in any practical application, that's only speculation, though understanding that it could fight drug-resistant bacteria is necessary to understand why the researchers ended up getting to this point. As long as we do not try to present this as snake oil either at the article or ITN, it is outside of the medical area at this point. Another way to view this is that this is at the basic research level; where MEDRS would be critical is when that research moved into the applied field. --Masem (t) 21:20, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      • i could not disagree more. And while it remains true that the only reason anybody cares is because medicine, there are even more fundamental layers of risk here. The paper might not replicate at all. Even if it does, there is no way to know that any of these could be drugs (they might be toxic as hell for the liver for example). And even if they look interesting from a medical perspective, the chemistry might be impossible scale up (technically or economically). If the hook were way more microbiology driven (new class of chemicals that bacteria used to kill each other - who knows what it might be useful for) it would be OK with me. Not this. This is hype. (in case you are not catching it, the hook calls this "a new class of antibiotics". An antibioitic is a kind of drug. This will not be a new drug class until there actual drugs in it. We are at least ten years away from there being drugs based on this (if ever)
      • News organizations jerk the public around with this kind of bullshit hype to make money. What is our excuse?
      • it is actually really harmful. People see headlines like this, and they look around and wonder why we haven't cured cancer (or antibiotic resistance, or whatever) yet.
      • everybody here should follow healthnewsreview.org. they are great. Jytdog (talk) 21:33, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
        • "Antibiotics" does not always mean "drug"; [13] "Originally, an antibiotic was a substance produced by one microorganism that selectively inhibits the growth of another." which is exactly this. That's how I read the research report; they are not speaking of it as a drug, only that it has potential for one if they can succeed in proving out its function and safety/non-toxicity to humans. --Masem (t) 21:45, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
          • you are arguing finely parsed rare shades of meaning, about a front page thing - you know as well as i do that every news organization that covered this, and the nominator, and pretty much every reader, thinks 'drug to kill bacteria" when they glance and read 'antibiotic". You are generally not a bullshitter. Don't start now. :) Jytdog (talk) 22:57, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
            • I'm not trying to BS here, I'm just recognizing that we have a terminology problem. I agree "antibiotics = drug" is the most common usage if we're looking at this from medicine/pharma, but "antibiotic = substance from a micro-organism that hampers other cells" is a valid term when talking from a biological aspect, and unfortunately lacking a different proper term (That I can find) to better distinguish it from the "drug" related definition. If we can apply more context in the blurb, that would help, but I don't know a simple way to do that yet. --Masem (t) 23:23, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Masem. Davey2116 (talk) 23:16, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support - while I feel that some of the !votes are somewhat too enthusiastic, possibly ignoring the policy laid down at WP:CRYSTAL, there is no denying that this story is in the news, and that article quality is sufficient to merit posting at this juncture. Stormy clouds (talk) 23:23, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Ammarpad. Those tags have re-appeared so clearly the medical sourcing issue needs to be resolved before posting. Pawnkingthree (talk) 00:13, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • All the statements in Malacidin#Potential_applications are accurate summaries of statements from the Nature Microbiology paper and are sourced as such. This isn't a "classic" unsourced statements problem. This issue here is that at least one determined editor considers these to be medical statements, for which WP:MEDRS mandates that primary sources (which this is) are not acceptable. I don't think this is a medical article - there is no medicine that will be developed from this for years (if ever). I'm with Masem here, "antibiotic" does not necessarily equal "drug". This is a microbiology article. Perhaps we can rephrase the blurb and parts of the article to make this clearer, but I do think the tagging is over-zealous. --LukeSurl t c 09:59, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. An interesting discovery in a field we rarely feature. The article itself does not appear to be making medical claims, just microbiological ones, so the arguments above based on WP:MEDRS do not convince me. Publication in a peer-reviewed journal is the standard we apply to scientific discoveries, which has been met. Over-zealous tagging should be removed, not prevent us featuring this on ITN. Modest Genius talk 13:22, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    I'll also add that we posted the discovery of teixobactin in 2015, without any MEDRS concerns. Modest Genius talk 19:01, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
that is a great example of WP:Other stuff exists. That article needs a bunch of work. Jytdog (talk) 20:29, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Not really, this isn't an AfD discussion. My point is it shows we have previously seen the discovery of new antibiotic classes as important enough for ITN. If you think teixobactin needs improvement then feel free to work on it; it was good enough to post on ITN. Modest Genius talk 12:19, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The spirit of "other stuff exists" is "don't point at the incorrect thing that happened somewhere else at some other time to justify the incorrect thing you want to do here and now" Jytdog (talk) 17:44, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, just because the tags have been removed doesn't mean the the MEDRS problem was solved. There is still only one primary source and a bunch of hyping lay media "sources" doesn't fix that. Abductive (reasoning) 17:34, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment - I have gone through and removed medicalish claims (what we know now, is that these chemicals kill bacteria; we don't know that they can treat infections in people). I also added, per one of refs, that we won't know for many years if there will be a drug based on these. i also removed "antibiotic" from the first sentence and replaced that with "chemicals made by bacteria" with an underlying WP to secondary metabolites, which is what these are. Jytdog (talk) 20:01, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. MedRS plainly doesn't apply as long as ITN & the article are completely clear that this is not a class of clinically active drugs. The problem is that 'antibiotic' has two meanings, 'clinical antibiotic' & 'chemical with antimicrobial activity', but most people will read it to mean the first. I have proposed an alternate wording that might help. Espresso Addict (talk) 01:33, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
the alt 2 blurb is fine with me. MEDRS doesn't apply anymore because all the health claims have been removed from the article. MEDRS applies to content, anywhere, like RS. Many comments about MEDRS in this discussion have been incorrect or handwavy and therefore useless and indeed harmful with respect to trying to reach consensus. Jytdog (talk) 18:09, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, looks ready, since the concerns have been resolved. Brandmeistertalk 12:53, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Cyclone Gita

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Cyclone Gita (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Cyclone Gita (satellite image pictured) becomes the strongest storm on record to strike Tonga and causes extensive damage. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Cyclone Gita (satellite image pictured) strikes Tonga, the strongest to hit the nation in over 60 years, and causes extensive damage.
News source(s): New Zealand Herald, USAToday, BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Significant impact in a region (South Pacific islands) that rarely gets ITN attention. High-end Category 4 (Aus scale) impact in Tonga makes it the strongest on record (60+ years) for that nation. Damage reports are only just starting to come out, but it appears to have caused widespread damage. I think the record strength for Tonga should be enough for ITN but I'll leave that to you all. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 10:23, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - weather phenomena are common enough at ITN, but the large scale of the storm means that this is notable. Normally, the low fatality count would deter me, but I will defer here to the wisdom of our resident meteorologist, as his judgement on storms is rarely awry. Stormy clouds (talk) 10:37, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Especially now. Stormy clouds (talk) 10:39, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
While it fell short of being a Category 5 on the Aus scale, it was only just short by 5 knots which ain’t significant since systems are regularly adjusted by 5-10 kts in either direction during post storm analysis.Jason Rees (talk) 11:19, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
⇒ The fact that it's been done does not make it ipso facto correct. IMO, current and currently should not be used in encyclopedia articles, as the reference could become outdated at any time. For similar reasons, past-tense verbs should be used, as most articles will outlive the present-tense status of breaking news. Sca (talk) 15:37, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I would bet my house on this being updated in a timely manner once it's in the past. Due to a cadre of dedicated editors, the English Wikipedia has fantastic articles on tropical cyclones. Articles should strive to be accurate as possible, and this includes using the present tense when appropriate. We don't write all BLPs in the past tense because at some point in the future that person will die. The article in question here is headed with {{current weather event}} which expressly tells readers that information is subject to change. --LukeSurl t c 15:55, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Are we a news-aggregation site or an encyclopedia? Other eds have been telling me for years that Wiki is not a 'news ticker' (to use the British phrase). Sca (talk) 16:03, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Luo Haocai

[edit]
Article: Luo Haocai (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Zaobao
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 04:00, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] David Grossman wins the 2018 Israel Prize for Literature

[edit]
WP:SNOW. Good faith nomination, but this result is quickly clear. --Jayron32 17:41, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: David Grossman (talk · history · tag) and Israel Prize (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ David Grossman wins the 2018 Israel Prize for Literature (Post)
News source(s): Zur, Yarden (February 12, 2018). "Author David Grossman Wins the 2018 Israel Prize for Literature". Haaretz. Retrieved February 12, 2018.; Grave-Lazi, Lidar (February 12, 2018). "ISRAEL PRIZE IN LITERATURE TO BE AWARDED TO DAVID GROSSMAN". The Jerusalem Post. Retrieved February 12, 2018.;
Credits:
 Zigzig20s (talk) 16:20, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

February 11

[edit]
February 11, 2018 (2018-02-11) (Sunday)
Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Posted] RD: Tom Rapp

[edit]
Article: Tom Rapp (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Updated article. Influential singer-songwriter from 1960s/70s as leader of Pearls Before Swine. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:53, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Chris Stockwell

[edit]
Article: Chris Stockwell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Toronto StarCBC
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former long-term Toronto City Councillor. Article is decently sourced, but requires some work to bring up to par. Floydian τ ¢ 18:31, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Jan Maxwell

[edit]
Article: Jan Maxwell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Playbill
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well-sourced and updated --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:25, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Saratov Airlines Flight 703

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Saratov Airlines Flight 703 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Saratov Airlines Flight 703 (aircraft pictured) crashes in Russia killing 71 people on board. (Post)
News source(s): all over the news for example [14]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Major crash. Naj'entus (talk) 13:28, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Asma Jahangir

[edit]
Article: Asma Jahangir (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Tribune
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well-sourced and notable personality of Pakistan... Saqib (talk) 09:16, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 11

[edit]
February 11, 2018 (2018-02-11) (Sunday)
Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Posted] RD: Tom Rapp

[edit]
Article: Tom Rapp (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Updated article. Influential singer-songwriter from 1960s/70s as leader of Pearls Before Swine. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:53, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Chris Stockwell

[edit]
Article: Chris Stockwell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Toronto StarCBC
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former long-term Toronto City Councillor. Article is decently sourced, but requires some work to bring up to par. Floydian τ ¢ 18:31, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Jan Maxwell

[edit]
Article: Jan Maxwell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Playbill
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well-sourced and updated --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:25, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Saratov Airlines Flight 703

[edit]
Proposed image
Article: Saratov Airlines Flight 703 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Saratov Airlines Flight 703 (aircraft pictured) crashes in Russia killing 71 people on board. (Post)
News source(s): all over the news for example [15]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Major crash. Naj'entus (talk) 13:28, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Asma Jahangir

[edit]
Article: Asma Jahangir (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Tribune
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well-sourced and notable personality of Pakistan... Saqib (talk) 09:16, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 10

[edit]
February 10, 2018 (2018-02-10) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime
  • Crime in Ohio
    • Two officers of the Westerville, Ohio Police Department are shot and killed (one died immediately, one later at the hospital) in an ambush-type attack which had begun as a domestic dispute between the male perpetrator, who was wounded during the incident, and his wife. (CNN)

Politics and elections

[Ready] Israel & Syria & Iran

[edit]
Article: February 2018 Israel–Syria incident (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Israel attacks Syrian and Iranian positions in Syria after one of its warplanes is downed in the February 2018 Israel–Syria incident (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Syrian air defenses shoot down an Israeli F-16 warplane, prompting Israeli retaliatory airstrikes on Iranian positions in Syria, which kill at least 25.
News source(s): [16] [17] [18]
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: First time an advanced Israeli warplane has been shot down by enemy fire in 36 years. Banedon (talk) 09:59, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • It wasn't in the news when nominated, and isn't in the news now. It's stale. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:23, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • One more thing about "the discussion at ITN/C is the only place where I hear about a news story" - modern websites are undoubtedly capable of tracking your browsing or search history and matching its featured stories to match your interests. For example if you read every darts story but ignore all soccer stories, the website will eventually customize itself to show you darts stories even though darts is a much smaller sport than soccer. That could explain why you only see this at ITN/C. Banedon (talk) 20:34, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • How bizarre. I saw this story break and then I saw it quickly evaporate. It's a rare case of Wikipedia benefitting from it not being rushed to the main page as it's truly no longer in the news in any real way. As for your claim about the "undoubtedly capable" websites, no that's simply not true for the majority of news website homepages. They tailor your view if you log in and adjust it so, but if you don't, you get to see what the rest of the world sees. And in this case it was about three hours of coverage of the downed jet, then some editorials about what might happen next. Stale. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:23, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - this is a major story, as Israel's involvement could herald a completely new phase and escalation of the war. I certainly saw it covered on front pages at the time, and there are plenty of articles covering it worldwide.[19][20][21][22]  — Amakuru (talk) 10:46, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, but all those articles are just saying what I said in my opening comment - wait and see what (if anything) really happens. Nothing is giving this proper main page full news coverage because nothing is really happening. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:25, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The escalation is the news; what has already happened is news. "Let's wait and see" leads to continual incrementalism where no single step is enough to post, then we break out the stale votes. GCG (talk) 12:46, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    No it isn't in the news. Analysis of things that might happen next is on page 11 of the news, but nothing is "in the news", and only was momentarily on the day it happened (10 Feb), not even when it was nominated. You're right, it's stale. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:49, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, with alt blurb (or similar) and date as February 10 - the time of the principal part of this incident. IIRC this was headline news at the time of the plane downing. The article is adequate to post. We require an item to have been in the news, but it doesn't necessarily have to still be in the headlines at the time of nomination or of posting. In fact, delaying nomination until an article is higher quality is often preferable. This nomination should have been under the Feb 10 header, but we can deal with that. --LukeSurl t c 12:50, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Pretty humdrum right now. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:55, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose While there seems to be potential to change what is happening in Syria due to the incident, it's media speculation and not that much of such at this point. The incident itself seems relatively minor to not post. --Masem (t) 14:09, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Well sourced, developed new article. Saw this in the news on the 10 February. To suggest this is stale when it is newer than the oldest blurb on the template goes to explain why random readers perceive ITN as stale. It also defeats the purpose of having a week long nomination system. This marks a new overt participant into the Syrian Civil War, similar to the 2015 Russian Sukhoi Su-24 shootdown - which we posted. Fuebaey (talk) 15:34, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - major escalation in a long-running war. I've moved the nomination from Feb 12 to Feb 10, the correct date. -Zanhe (talk) 19:41, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Jóhann Jóhannsson

[edit]
Article: Jóhann Jóhannsson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Golden Globe winning composer. Died unexpectedly, aged 48. Cause of death is unknown. Article's in reasonable shape but needs further references, especially the discography/filmography. yorkshiresky (talk) 18:50, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I've added several references and removed the contentious ones. Some of the theatre work is finding difficult to ref. Can someone have a look to see what needs done? yorkshiresky (talk) 14:10, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Yorkshiresky: I've tagged two things that need citations. Everything else is there, and really is close. --Masem (t) 02:51, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Masem: filled in citations as requested.yorkshiresky (talk) 09:07, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Gerry Adams steps down

[edit]
Closing as nominator given consensus against posting. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:15, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Gerry Adams (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Gerry Adams steps down as the leader of Sinn Féin. (Post)
News source(s): The Irish Times
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: While technically a domestic politics issue, the significance of this leadership change is profound. Adams is one of the most significant and controversial figures in recent Irish and British history, and the end of his tenure is indicative of a further and significant movement away from the era of The Troubles in Northern Ireland, and is attracting large attention in Ireland and the UK as a result. Along with Martin McGuinness, Adams was (allegedly) one of the most important figures both in governing the Provisional IRA[1] and the subsequent peace process. Thus, the historical importance of this change elevates it above mere politicking, and is the first leadership change in the party in 35 years, prompting analysis of his career. Stormy clouds (talk) 10:48, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Retirements don't usually get consensus to post except in very rare circumstances which could probably be counted on one hand(during my time here at least). Adams might arguably merit a blurb when he passes(the case could be made at least) but I'm not sure about right now. 331dot (talk) 12:10, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as it’s entirely expected - it was announced in November last year. There is no shock or scandal; this is routine. Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:59, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose good faith nom. Politicians come and go, even highly controversial ones. N. Ireland is not the only place that has them and if we post this we are opening a door that I think should remain closed. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:28, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral I think the opposes are underselling just how big Adams' role was in contemporary Irish history. There aren't a lot of people like this, full stop. However, I think the time has passed for Adams resignation to really signal much of anything. Had he gone in '98 or perhaps in '06, that would have been quite indicative. Now it just seems an acknowledgment that the party is better off without his baggage. GCG (talk) 16:29, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose local politics, I remember him not even being allowed to be reported using his own voice ("Gerry Adams' voice is played by an actor"), but regardless, he's a politician who has announced retirement. No big deal. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:54, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as local politics, and while he may be important in NI he's not remotely "one of the most significant and controversial figures in recent British history"; he's the leader of a party with 7 MPs, a handful of local councils and part of a power-sharing administration in a province whose entire population is roughly 2⁄3 that of Manchester, not some kind of major political force. Note that, even with the "allegedly" you've stuck in there, Adams was (allegedly) one of the most important figures both in governing the Provisional IRA is on extremely shaky ground legally, since he's always consistently denied that he has any connection to PIRA, and it's probably not a claim you want to be making on the sixth most-viewed site on the internet. ‑ Iridescent 22:05, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Redacted. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:15, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/gerry-adams-s-ira-years-an-insider-s-account-1.3385451
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] Hong Kong bus accident

[edit]
Article: 2018 Hong Kong bus accident (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A bus accident kills 19 in Hong Kong. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A bus accident kills 19 and injures 65 in Hong Kong.
News source(s): The New York Times, Time, The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Second deadliest road accident in Hong Kong history. Citobun (talk) 10:52, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 9

[edit]
February 9, 2018 (2018-02-09) (Friday)
Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sport

[Stale] RD: Reg E. Cathey

[edit]
Article: Reg E. Cathey (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety, Rolling Stone
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Well-sourced and notable for his portrayal of multiple characters in popular TV shows. The only obstacle may be the article's modest size, however. --PootisHeavy (talk) 02:58, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Liam Miller

[edit]
Article: Liam Miller (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Irish Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Irish international soccer player whose career had time at Celtic and Manchester United. Good Article, only qualm is that the career statistics miss his last two seasons. Harambe Walks (talk) 23:45, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Stale] RD: John Gavin

[edit]
Article: John Gavin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYtimes, variety
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 GCG (talk) 23:41, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Stale] RD: Ebony Reigns

[edit]
Article: Ebony Reigns (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Evening Standard, Metro
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Spot check shows decent sourcing but I think it has some rough edges for improvement. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 16:37, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] 2018 Winter Olympics

[edit]
Article: 2018 Winter Olympics (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The 2018 Winter Olympics open in Pyeongchang, South Korea. (Post)
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: The opening ceremony article in its present form is not ready for main page yet. Yogwi21 (talk) 13:23, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Jill Messick

[edit]
Article: Jill Messick (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [23]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Spot check shows decent sourcing but I think it has some rough edges for improvement. --Deoliveirafan (talk) 05:46, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak oppose looks okay, most of what there relates to Weinstein which, while important, seems to me to be given a little undue weight. Her film career isn't really covered at all, and she's not even mentioned in some of those film articles, so references are required. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:17, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Well referenced now. GCG (talk) 13:26, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm not sure if this prevents posting but there are definitely undue weight issues as TRM notes. We have "Jill Messick was an American film producer" and then virtually the whole of the rest of the article is about Weinstein, McGowan and her suicide.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:52, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose reiterating the problems TRM and Pawnkingthree point out. The way this is presented, it fails WP:BLP1E (the event being the Weinstein accusations and her role in it) negliciting anything about her actual career. Unfortunately a search of pre-July 2017 stories shows very little (though I'm just scanning google news, this is by no means complete). If there is more outside of listing her film credits, that must be added. Otherwise, this should be merged elsewhere per BLP1E. --Masem (t) 14:16, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I agree the article gives undue weight to Rose McGowan and not enough weight to her own career. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:03, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment as nominator. It is a new stub article that should be expanded (I'm currently too busy myself for the next few days) and a better search of older articles may result in a more complete Bio, but the recent death is currently newsworthy, which is why I believe it should be listed.--Deoliveirafan (talk) 16:46, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    No-one is stating they believe the death or the article to be non-notable, indeed it's on the homepage of the BBC News website right now, but we examine only quality here for RD, nothing else, and right now the strong consensus is that the stub (which it isn't) pays far too much attention to the Weinstein connection and not enough time coverage the individual in question's life in totality. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:49, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    (ec) I'm not sure what "except when..." relates to, or to whom it's addressed. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:53, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    I reworded what I wrote around the same time you saw it. My initial comment wasn't clear. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:56, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Hilinski was closed with no support as stale with concerns over GNG if I recall correctly, he certainly wasn't featured on the main page of the global BBC News website. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:58, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh well then, BBC is the sole arbiter of everything then. Didn't realize. GNG concerns, but nobody took it to AfD. Meanwhile, this article is primarily about Rose McGowan and not Messick herself, so we're not concerned about GNG here? – Muboshgu (talk) 17:02, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    GNG is an issue yes, but it is more BLP1E (which has higher priority). By meeting the GNG here for anything outside of the Weinstein stuff, that BLP1E would go away as well. --Masem (t) 17:05, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    No, it's just an example of a report of a death that was certainly global since they weren't British and made it onto the homepage of the BBC. I suspect if you bother to Google it, Messick's death will be covered in multiple continents, across dozens of countries, etc etc. Your belated comment about GNG has been picked up by just about every reviewer (including me about 8 hours ago), so I'm not sure what additional information or point you're bringing to this. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:07, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article seems to have evolved since the initial concerns. Reading this, I have no concerns about content or referencing in terms of main page readiness. --Jayron32 17:48, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • There remains - outside the lede - only exactly one paragraph that has zero connection to the Weinstein accusations. That's not sufficient. While its well-referenced, that state failed BLP1E. --Masem (t) 18:00, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Per the opposition above, the article only overwhelmingly reflects the Weinstein-McGowan events with little noting on Messick's career. I have faith however that the nominator, Deoliveirafan, as stated will expand the article when time opens up. Afterwards I will change my vote. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:55, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In re:BLP1E, doesn't the manner of death constitute a notable event that is distinct from the scandal itself? GCG (talk) 23:16, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • As best as I read sources, her suicide was directly tied to how her involvement in the Weinstein accusations became known. It's part of the same event. And even still, if the suicide was fully separate (at which point I don't know how much coverage there would be with it), the combination of BLP1E and BLPCRIME would still suggest no article about her, barring the ability to fill in her career absent the accusations. --Masem (t) 00:41, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, another posthumous article that would undoubtedly have failed WP:BLP1E yesterday. Black Kite (talk) 00:31, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • CommentIt has been expanded to the best of my ability to find older articles about her full career.--Deoliveirafan (talk) 08:13, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm happy enough to lend my support for this having seen the career section (and tag) I added yesterday expanded during the last six hours. Fuebaey (talk) 12:39, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 21:56, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 8

[edit]
February 8, 2018 (2018-02-08) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

[New] Khaleda Zia

[edit]
Article: Khaleda Zia (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Bangladesh Prime Minister Khaleda Zia is jailed following a five-year sentence on corruption charges. (Post)
News source(s): NYT, BBC, AJ, DW
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Still getting coverage on media like BBC though I anticipate oppose votes based on the depth of update. 39.57.163.249 (talk) 07:01, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 7

[edit]
February 7, 2018 (2018-02-07) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

International relations

Politics and elections

Science and technology

February 6

[edit]
February 6, 2018 (2018-02-06) (Tuesday)
Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

[Posted] RD: John Perry Barlow

[edit]
Article: John Perry Barlow (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Verge
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Spot check shows decent sourcing but I think it has some rough edges for improvement. Masem (t) 00:05, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] 2018 Hualien earthquake

[edit]
Article: 2018 Hualien earthquake (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An earthquake strikes Hualien, Taiwan, killing at least 7 people and injuring more than 250 others. (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes CNN
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Significant strength earthquake resulting in a number of dead and injured. Mamyles (talk) 14:59, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Joe Knollenberg

[edit]
Article: Joe Knollenberg (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article has been updated and is well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:12, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Jao Tsung-I

[edit]
Article: Jao Tsung-I (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): SCMP, The Standard, Xinhua
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Zanhe (talk) 20:24, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Falcon Heavy maiden flight

[edit]
discussion has veered into unproductive areas. Closing before it goes further. --Jayron32 16:15, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Falcon Heavy (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Falcon Heavy makes its maiden flight. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The SpaceX spacecraft Falcon Heavy makes its maiden flight.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The SpaceX spacecraft Falcon Heavy makes its maiden flight, equipped with Elon Musk's Tesla Roadster as a dummy payload.
News source(s): BBC NYT
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Due to launch in around 12 hours, nominating so article can be fixed up. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:19, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - article quality seems fine, and there are no notability concerns as this is ITN/R. Time to posting should not exceed t-12 hours in my view. Stormy clouds (talk) 12:38, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Notable. Article seems ready for posting as well.BabbaQ (talk) 14:40, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the actual launch (which should be 1:30 PM EST) and info about the launch itself should actually be in the article, referenced, and checked before we post this. Everything else looks OK, but we should actually have information about the launch itself. --Jayron32 16:14, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the launch occurs and the details are in the article. Last I checked there was still a 20% chance of it being postponed due to weather, so it might not even go today. If it does go, I'd wager there is a better than 50% chance that something goes wrong. Given that it is their first try in this configuration, a totally flawless launch would be somewhat surprising. There could be a major failure and the thing blows up, or we could see a minor failure that prevents it from reaching the right orbit, or causes one of the boosters to not be recovered, etc. Regardless, I suspect the details of the outcome will be worth mentioning. Dragons flight (talk) 17:03, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - The launch is now scheduled for 3:10 pm EST (20:10 UTC), 90 minutes from now. If we don't put this on the main page soon people might miss the historic launch, which will be broadcast live on YouTube. nagualdesign 18:38, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And if man was about to land on the Moon or Mars, that would have no place on the main page until after the fact? nagualdesign 20:25, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, actually. We can prep as much as possible, but I remember in the past some nearly assured-to-be-posted events that we waited until the second after it was confirmed to actually post, just to make sure it happened as planned. (I want to say the last time was a UK Royal Wedding but my memory is foggy on that) The only thing I think we post ahead of time would be something like a solar eclipse where no event outside the heat death of the sun would change. --Masem (t) 14:40, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Does it really make a difference if it happens as planned? If they were sending astronauts to the Moon or Mars and it was an hour or two before the event, as it was when I posted here yesterday, and Cape Canaveral or wherever was lined with thousands of spectators and all the world's media, that in itself would be a major event even if they scrapped the launch. Surely ITN ought to reflect what's actually in the news. nagualdesign 14:50, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
ITN is not a news ticker. We feature quality articles that happen to be in the news. An article about a space launch is not of quality until after the launch completes. --Masem (t) 14:57, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You completely ignored my example, so let me ask you directly; If they were launching astronauts to Mars an hour from now, and it was being streamed live, would you not want to mention that on the main page? nagualdesign 15:04, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Not until after it happened. If it was successful, we'd write it one way. If it wasn't successful (ala Challenger), we'd be writing it in a completely different way. That's why we wait for the update of the article for the event to occur to judge how well it is written and then add it. --Masem (t) 15:06, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, talk about pig-headed! Okay, I'll just leave it there, but before I go I will point out that the articles about the Falcon Heavy launch were being edited constantly for several hours before and after the event, and despite your clutching at straws there was no attempt to judge how well the articles were written before adding them to the main page. In fact it was a free for all, with many editors chipping in with both good and bad edits. The only requirements that were met were that the event was over and the launch was successful. nagualdesign 15:12, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Which is completely fine to make sure all parts we can talk about before an event are of quality in the article - in fact, for any planned event, this is a highly recommended practice. It is just that until we can say "It worked" or "it didn't work", we can't consider the article "complete" for posting to the main page. (See the Super Bowl nom below - we couldn't post until we had a specific update to the article despite knowing the result). We can prep all we want, have the consensus ready to go if it worked (as it was here) and then flip it onto the main page once the update is done. --Masem (t) 15:17, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support Article looks good and clearly an ITN worthy nom. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:13, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Only need to wait for another handful of seconds, it seems. Stormy clouds (talk) 20:44, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Even if it blew up on the launch pad it was still very much in the news, before, during and after. nagualdesign 21:09, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I had tears in my eyes. nagualdesign 21:01, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, history was made. Someday we'll witness its manned flight to the Moon and Mars... Brandmeistertalk 21:03, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Unless you get your information from Wikipedia, in which case you'll only find out about it after it's already happened! nagualdesign 21:09, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's an encyclopaedia. Kind of the point is to write about events after they've occured, not advertise events before they occur. Galobtter (pingó mió) 21:13, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's an encyclopaedia. No shit. As already stated, this was big news before the event, since the live launch was quite historic. Nothing to do with advertising. nagualdesign 21:16, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This is consensus that has been established for several years now and was applied correctly here - we do not post launches unless and until the launch is successful, and the article is sufficiently updated. Period. If you disagree, get an RFC.--WaltCip (talk) 00:32, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Period, eh? Would you like a tampon? Wikipedia:Consensus is an ongoing decision-making process. This section is (or was) a discussion about whether to include something on the main page, and if we all decided that it should then that would be the consensus. Just because one group of editors made a decision among themselves several years ago it does not set anything in stone, and if enough editors disagree with an established consensus then, by definition, it is no longer the established consensus. What would you do if they were launching astronauts to the Moon and they all died? I suppose by your reasoning that wouldn't be ITN even though it would be major news around the world before the launch, and afterwards it still wouldn't be ITN since it wasn't a successful launch. nagualdesign 14:36, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Alright then, smart-ass. "Full stop". Happy now?--WaltCip (talk) 15:31, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I understand what you meant. Saying "period" indicates that no further discussion is possible or desirable. What I didn't appreciate was your attempt to have the last word. In future I suggest you say your bit and leave it at that if you've decided that no further discussion is desirable, and of course others are free to continue discussing things. nagualdesign 16:10, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes WP:Consensus can change. But I'd just like to add my voice to the chorus supporting the current practice of only posting events after they occur. It's not necessary to debate future theoretical cases; ITN/C is fully capable of discussing (real) events as they happen. --LukeSurl t c 14:51, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, I'm not trying to say that future launches should be posted before they occur. It was just this particular launch that I thought deserved a special mention. You say it's not necessary to debate future theoretical cases and that ITN/C is fully capable of discussing events as they happen, but actually it's rather difficult to start moving a boulder with short notice, as was demonstrated yesterday. I guess when they decide to send astronauts to Mars I'd better get here a week early so I can blow off a few cobwebs. nagualdesign 15:01, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Amazing! Ok, regarding the update. How much do we need aside the fact that the launch was successful? --Tone 21:05, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing. Since the entire article is the ITNR subject, i.e. new rocket and its launch, as long as we have that referenced, it's good to go. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:12, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Also worth noting is the china teapot on board the Tesla Roadster. Count Iblis (talk) 22:12, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment First, I do think it is note worthy and cool, but the "Elon Musk's Telsa Roadster" part feels so promotional to me. Classicwiki (talk) (ping me please) 03:26, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

February 5

[edit]
February 5, 2018 (2018-02-05) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

[Posted] RD: Donald Lynden-Bell

[edit]
Article: Donald Lynden-Bell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  - (Post)
News source(s): [24]
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British astronomer, was the first to determine that quasars are powered by supermassive black holes. So far my only source is Twitter, so we'll need to confirm with an RS. Modest Genius talk 13:44, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Death now confirmed by his institution. Modest Genius talk 18:55, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Margot Duhalde

[edit]
Article: Margot Duhalde (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Chile's first female pilot. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:20, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Record DJIA drop

[edit]
Clear consensus against posting this - compared to some, it is a drop in the ocean. Stormy clouds (talk) 12:35, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: List of largest daily changes in the Dow Jones Industrial Average (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Dow Jones Industrial Average loses 1,175 points, the most ever in a single trading day. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, CNBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Only a 4.6% drop, so nowhere near as bad in percentage terms as Black Monday but this is still the first time the Dow's ever lost more than a thousand points in a single day Daniel Case (talk) 04:10, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] RD: Jockie Soerjoprajogo

[edit]
Article: Jockie Soerjoprajogo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Jakarta Post
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indonesian songwriter and musician; two songs in Rolling Stone Indonesia's best of all time list.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 02:19, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] RD: Esmond Bradley Martin

[edit]
Stale. Stephen 02:15, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Esmond Bradley Martin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Seems to be getting coverage, and not just in the UK. Also made the other recent events page. Thanks, User:ST15RMwikipedia 16:54, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] Ongoing: US flu season

[edit]
Consensus against posting, hence closure per WP:SNOW. Re-open nomination if quality of article increases significantly, or the flu worsens dramatically. Stormy clouds (talk) 15:56, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2017-18 United States flu season (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): CDC, all major news networks
Credits:
Nominator's comments: in the news almost every day. Should be an ongoing item 2600:387:5:803:0:0:0:95 (talk) 14:47, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for two different reasons. One is that the article is of poor quality, and really does need the attention of an editor with medical expertise to address. Second, even if fixed, its flu season, it happens. Yes, this year's flu is particularly nasty and has resulted in many deaths (more than just children), but this happens every flu season, its nothing new. --Masem (t) 14:50, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Masem. This happens every year. I also don't think the article has incremental updates other than new casualty figures. This would have to get much worse to merit posting. 331dot (talk) 14:53, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
While this is news in the US, I would wonder if it is elsewhere. I would also ask the nominator to provide links to such news stories. 331dot (talk) 14:57, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
BBC is covering it, but again, if they're using the 2009 swine flu as the worst case in recent times, we're nowhere close there yet. --Masem (t) 14:59, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Masem. 331dot (talk) 15:01, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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February 4

[edit]
February 4, 2018 (2018-02-04) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

[Closed] RD: John Mahoney

[edit]
Stale, unimproved. Stephen 00:34, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: John Mahoney (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Martin Crane off of Frasier, poor article but could be saved? The Rambling Man (talk) 06:51, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] Cayce, South Carolina train collision

[edit]
Consensus against posting; WP:SNOW ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 12:17, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Cayce, South Carolina train collision (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Two people are killed and 116 are injured when an Amtrak passenger train collides with a freight train at Cayce, South Carolina, United States (Post)
Credits:

Article updated
 Mjroots (talk) 06:55, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Chrisclear: I don't think anyone is asserting that they are, this seems to be a good faith nomination. 331dot (talk) 11:32, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, but it would be rare for a train collision involving only two deaths from any other country to be nominated. Chrisclear (talk) 12:04, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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[Posted] Super Bowl LII

[edit]

Closing again - there is sufficient content in the summary section, not great, but sufficient. The discussion is not heping it getting better. (Closing as an uninvolved admin after a previous closure). --Tone 22:05, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

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Article: Super Bowl LII (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In American football, the Philadelphia Eagles defeat the New England Patriots in Super Bowl LII. (Post)
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Prepping as we're at halftime now. There's a few places that will need updating in the article, but it's at least well established with prose of the lead-into the game. Masem (t) 01:23, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Alacrity25: As the Super Bowl is on the Recurring events list, there is no need to support this on the merits. However, there are article quality issues, which is why it has not yet been posted. Feel free to work on the article to address the concerns given(or if they have been addressed, please state that) The biggest concern is that there seems to be no prose description of the game yet, a must for posting. 331dot (talk) 13:24, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@331dot: There are over 100 references, I think that satisfies things. There are a lack of photos, but that's an easy fix (and again, I've seen other articles without significant graphics in ITN.) What else do you think is an issue? I will help on those things if I can. Alacrity25 (talk) 14:02, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Alacrity25: As I indicated, there is not a prose description of the game itself in the article, which is a must for posting any sporting event to ITN. If you wish to write one, feel free. You can look at articles on past Super Bowls to get an idea of how to do it if you need to. 331dot (talk) 14:05, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@331dot: That's fine. I'll get on it now. Alacrity25 (talk) 14:11, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
IP user, please understand that since this event is on the recurring items list, support on the merits is not required. This is only a discussion about article quality. 331dot (talk) 16:24, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted – Concerns brought up by valid comments above appear to have been addressed. Although a tag requesting additional citations is present in the Game Summary section, a quick look at previous Super Bowl articles (including GA-assessed Super Bowl XLI) shows this section isn't normally directly cited. Minor expansion requests withstanding will be sorted out in due time and I don't see them as a reason to withhold the article from posting. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 16:15, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • That is a piss poor game summary. This is supposed to be one of the premier events in the USA and editors here have described it as an insane game. You would not get that impression from the game summary. AIRcorn (talk) 17:14, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      • Aircorn, this is ITN/C, not FAC. All that's required is for the content to exist, not for it to be stellar. If you have suggestions for how to improve it, help out the editors working on the article. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 17:27, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
        • I am well aware of the requirements for submitting a sports event at ITN, having done so many times, and this is well below par. It is not just a requirement that the content exists as there are standards here. How about adding some citations and actually creating proper paragraphs. The lack of consistency when posting American events is one of the reasons there is such discontent in this area. AIRcorn (talk) 20:54, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
          • As noted earlier, in-text citations for game summaries of sporting events have not been required before you just asked for one right now. If you're going to invent criteria on the fly, could you give the community a few days to adjust first? --Jayron32 21:00, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
            • Sweet. I will refer back to this next time I nominate a sports game and ping you. It will save me a lot of time to not have to find citations to a game I just watched. AIRcorn (talk) 21:35, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
            • I agree, it's not good enough. I fail to understand why this supposed biggest sporting event on planet Earth has such a crap update. Rushing it to the mainpage when it's badly referenced is, as noted above, just another example of systemic bias we could well do without. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:40, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This entire thread is why this sub-sect of community is the worst on Wikipedia for making judgment decisions. Regards, — Moe Epsilon 20:33, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Moe Epsilon: I`m not sure what it is that you don't like, but if you don't like the decisions we make, you don't have to visit this page, or you can participate so your views are involved too. You don't need to attack the people who do contribute here. 331dot (talk) 20:45, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That "comment" is why a sub-set of the community should be ignored when there's an apparent gross and glaring misunderstanding on the way in which ITN (and ITNR) works. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:57, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] RD: Edwin Jackson (American football)

[edit]
Stale, unimproved. Stephen 00:33, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Edwin Jackson (American football) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Indy Star
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] RD: Séamus Pattison

[edit]
Article: Séamus Pattison (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): RTE, Irish Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and is well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:36, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 3

[edit]
February 3, 2018 (2018-02-03) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Law and crime
  • Macerata shooting
    • A shooting in Macerata, Italy, leaves six African immigrants wounded. The suspect is arrested and the case is being treated as a racially motivated crime. (BBC)

Science and technology

Sports

[Posted] RD: Bert Lundin

[edit]
Article: Bert Lundin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [28]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Swedish union leader. Not sure of exact death date. UPDATE: Death date confirmed by the union website to be 3 February. Into translated: "A union giant and fighter has today 3 Febrary walked away". News media don't seem to cover it. Iselilja (talk) 12:02, 4 February 2018 (UTC) Iselilja (talk) 00:34, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

His union has now confirmed death date on their web page. Iselilja (talk) 12:02, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

February 2

[edit]
February 2, 2018 (2018-02-02) (Friday)
Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

[Closed] RD: Jon Huntsman Sr.

[edit]
Stale. Stephen 00:35, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Jon Huntsman Sr. (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): U.S. News & World Reports
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 – Muboshgu (talk) 23:47, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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[Closed] Nunes Memo

[edit]
Obviously not going to happen. ‑ Iridescent 17:30, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Nunes memo (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ President of the United States Donald Trump authorizes Congress to release the Nunes memo, against the FBI's and Department of Justice's wishes. (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Important political event receiving wide global coverage. Thanks, User:ST15RMwikipedia 22:58, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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February 1

[edit]
February 1, 2018 (2018-02-01) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Arts and culture
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
  • Eleven people are killed in a fire at a Japanese residential facility for people in financial difficulty. (BBC)
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Science and technology

[Posted] New Mayan site

[edit]
Article: Maya Biosphere Reserve (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Archaeologists announce the discovery of a vast Mayan urban network in the Maya Biosphere Reserve, Guatemala. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, NYT, AP, National Geographic
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Described as a "major breakthrough" in Maya archaeology. Around 60,000 structures found. Brandmeistertalk 01:00, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Conditional Support pending article improvement - this is a major archaeological discovery, but the article is not in great shape. The newly updated archaeology section is well referenced, but the rest of the article needs improvement in referencing. -Zanhe (talk) 04:39, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed the referencing problem. Inatan (talk) 09:51, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] RD: Fidel Castro Díaz-Balart

[edit]
Stale. Stephen 00:35, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Fidel Castro Díaz-Balart (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Eldest son of late Cuban leader Fidel Castro commits suicide. Davey2116 (talk) 02:40, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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[Posted] RD: Hazar Khan Bijarani

[edit]
Article: Hazar Khan Bijarani (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A prominent Pakistani politician who remained MP since 1974 and a member of cabinet since then. Saqib (talk) 06:38, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Galobtter: Actually Samma and many other Pakistani news website copied the material from Wikipedia upon the death of this politician. Here's the older version from 14 December 2017. --Saqib (talk) 12:57, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
​ Huh, apologies. Anyhow, oppose per the Rambling Man Galobtter (pingó mió) 13:02, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for copyediting @Isanae: I have expanded the page and can be expand a bit further based on this obtiuary. --Saqib (talk) 07:45, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Su Bai

[edit]
Article: Su Bai (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ThePaper
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Chinese archaeologist. Zanhe (talk) 02:48, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Niranjan Bhagat

[edit]
Article: Niranjan Bhagat (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Desh Gujarat
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article is well cited. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 01:56, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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