Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive224
DHeyward
[edit]Sanction has been lifted, so closing this with no action. TonyBallioni (talk) 16:14, 12 January 2018 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning DHeyward[edit]
See above
See above
Sorry about this, but this appears to be a blatant violation of the recent topic ban, which looks almost WP:POINTy to me. I don't know, maybe DHeyward has some explanation for it. (DHeyward does not mention or bring up his topic ban in that edit so this cannot be reasonably construed as an exception which seeks to clarify the nature of the sanction) @NeilN: - wasn't his appeal already declined? Volunteer Marek (talk) 18:39, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Discussion concerning DHeyward[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by DHeyward[edit]Statement by Mendaliv[edit]Bleh. Just looks like a ham-handed attempt to appeal the appeal that got closed at AN the other day. I don't think AE should do anything about it since, honestly, it's pretty clearly just an attempt to appeal to a higher power. That said, DHeyward should understand that if not for the fact that it appears to be an appeal a sanction to Jimmy Wales, who presumably has authority to overturn the sanction, that post would not be a good idea. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 09:43, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
Statement by The Rambling Man[edit]Common sense anyone? Another editor gone, what a proud moment! Happy 2018! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:35, 7 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by Kingindian[edit]Jimbo's talk page is recognized on Wikipedia as a special page, and functions as a de facto forum for many things. Please don't be pedantic and block for this. It is really petty of Volunteer Marek to even bring it here. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 05:01, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by My very best wishes[edit]Jimbo has no authority to resolve this. Therefore, talking at his talk page about Clinton can not be viewed as a "legitimate and necessary dispute resolution" by any reasonable account. The comment by DHeyward was a forum shopping on a talk page of a WP administrator. I agree with Dennis Brown. My very best wishes (talk) 15:54, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Sir Joseph[edit]I think rightly or wrongly, most people here are under the impression that TBAN's don't apply to Jimbo's page. I also echo Kingsindian's comment. Sir Joseph (talk) 16:36, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof[edit]Having myself been topic-banned in the past, I made a couple impassioned (but fruitless) posts on Jimbo's talk page arguing my case, and was not sanctioned for it. I feel like engaging in lengthy discourse might be construed as disruptive of the ban, but as noted above, Jimbo's talk has traditionally allowed this. I did not enjoy editing under the topic ban precisely because I didn't want to have to look over my shoulder every edit wondering if someone was going to jump on me and drag me to this dramaboard - so as much as I have disagreed and continue to disagree with DHeyward, I empathize with him. I suggest that for everyone's sake, we step back a bit. Egregious violations would be one thing, but this is not that. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 22:18, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by Ryk72[edit]I had tentatively drafted something glib here, and then thought better of it. This seems, for want of a better word, incredibly petty. Some editors, when they feel slighted, maligned or wronged, lash out with personalised accusations of incompetence, bias, and auditory failure; others might drop a perhaps pointed note on the Talk pages of the great Jimbo. The first behaviour, discussed above, below & elsewhere, seems to be, if not acceptable, then at least accepted. Traditionally, the other has been covered as Render unto Caesar. One would hope that this instance could be considered accordingly; that this be swiftly and summarily closed; and we could all move on with "improving Wikipedia". NOthing is bettered by this filing remaining open, least not ourselves. I'll also note that a recent pattern of referring WP:AE filings for ban breaches to the previous sanctioning admin is not always conducive to removing heat from situations where the sanctioned editor might already feel victimised. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 12:08, 12 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning DHeyward[edit]
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Anmolbhat
[edit]Closed with no action. Anmolbhat self-corrected some unnecessary rudeness, so no sanction is required. I would note that the "civility restriction" is difficult to enforce short of a personal attack, as no two groups of people agree on what does and doesn't breach civility standards. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 17:52, 12 January 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Anmolbhat[edit]
Besides casting aspersions in spite of the good faith sanction on all Kashmir conflict related topics, not only has Anmolbhat broken them in full awareness of his violations, but he even has a history of being blocked for introducing copyright violations[4] despite being warned several times for their copyright violations.[5][6][7][8] I don't think this user is willing to learn or abide by our policies and since their editing is generally tendentious and unconstructive[9][10][11] they should be blocked. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 16:01, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Anmolbhat[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Anmolbhat[edit]I am not sure if there are such restrictions. Behavior of JosephusOfJerusalem is too concerning. He is edit warring on Kashmiris, showing his incompetence in judging sources at Talk:Kashmiris#Kautilya3's new edits, and Talk:Exodus of Kashmiri Hindus where he is also denying the responsibility of Hizbul. Also that he has to cite outdated diffs as justification for this report. As far as my block is concerned after my block on Copyright Violation I haven't violated any policy but JosephusOfJerusalem can show if I have. On talk page, he was asked about it, but he couldn't backup his claim, but it seems that he prefers to stand by his misleading statement.Anmolbhat (talk) 07:57, 11 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by D4iNa4[edit]Filer should consider reading WP:DR. It details "what to do when you have a dispute with another editor". Just don't expect others to block your critic over the things that happened more than half a year ago. D4iNa4 (talk) 15:42, 11 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Anmolbhat[edit]
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Raymond3023
[edit]Appeal declined per this discussion here, with the original sanction changing to NeilN's modified sanction. —SpacemanSpiff 11:52, 13 January 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by Raymond3023[edit]I am sanctioned for "misrepresenting what sources say and a repeated failure to understand this issue", there hasn't been any "repeated failure to understand this issue", I have never been alleged of misrepresenting sources ever. NeilN said I am responsible for the misrepresentation of the source on an article,[14] that I was originally attempting to rescue from a G5 deletion, "mostly because it is notable and meets WP:LASTING".[15] Though he is correct about it and I will always remember that and that's something I had already acknowledged that I should be more cautious with checking the content on the article that I am rescuing from G5,[16] NeilN still went ahead to sanction me despite without giving any other admin a chance to discuss, despite he had echoed that unless "another admin objects, I'm thinking of implementing a three month topic ban".[17] Again, I will be more cautious with checking article and sources when I am taking responsibility of G5, but I find this sanction to be unjustified. Raymond3023 (talk) 16:27, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Statement by NeilN[edit]This comes out of a discussion here. Raymond took responsibility for article content here and here. Editors looking at the discussion on Bishonen's page will see the very first post identifies the issues with sourcing. My query to explain how the references backed up article content was ignored. A follow up reveals that Raymond did not see anything that was unsupported. A third post (repeating Vanamonde's points) finally got them to admit the text misrepresented the sources. Given there are issues with the sockpuppet's other articles Raymond restored and there are edit summaries in the past like this, I felt it would be good if Raymond could show how careful he is with sources in other areas. --NeilN talk to me 16:57, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
If admins think the topic ban is too harsh then I would be willing to go with a formal warning about sourcing, indicating that further similar instances will result in a topic ban/block. I am concerned about this editor's ability to read sources given the unrelated Forbes diff. --NeilN talk to me 17:39, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
If I have the process right, Raymond3023 can re-appeal any modified sanction I place upon him so in the interests of not doing this all over again, I'll propose it here first: Fox six months Raymond3023 will:
Failure to abide by any one or more of these conditions may result in an immediate topic ban or block. Raymond3023 do you agree to these conditions? --NeilN talk to me 21:35, 9 January 2018 (UTC) Re-pinging @Raymond3023: --NeilN talk to me 21:39, 9 January 2018 (UTC) @Raymond3023: You will have to observe WP:1RR with all autoconfirmed editors - 10 edits, 4 days. WP:1RR has the same exemptions as WP:3RR - reverts for vandalism, BLP violations, etc., don't count. See WP:3RRNO for the full list. --NeilN talk to me 00:53, 10 January 2018 (UTC) I've recorded the modification here. Issues were raised about other editors but I believe they have little merit and the appeal should be closed. --NeilN talk to me 01:20, 10 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by Vanamonde93[edit]Since I brought this to NeilN's attention, let me supply that evidence once again. Here is the sequence of incidents which prompted this ban: 1) I tagged a number of articles created by the blocked sock John Jaffar Janardhan for CSD#G5, including 2006 Bhiwandi Lynching. 2) Raymond3023 reverted my tags, including on the aforementioned page. 3) I restored the tags, including at the aforementioned page. 4) Raymond3023 posted to the talk page of that article, "taking responsibility" for it. 5) I noticed that the article contained severe source misrepresentation, and posted to Bishonen's talk page, asking her to deal with it. 6) Despite being asked explicitly by NeilN about the source misrepresentation, Raymond3023 denied any wrongdoing, and judging by the appeal is still unable to see that what he did was a problem. So, I recommend this appeal be declined. Vanamonde (talk) 17:24, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Statement by D4iNa4[edit]Raymond3023 had to be guided about WP:G5 that when you are taking responsibility you are responsible for every word of the article. But that's it. Looking at the content in question, it is not even vandalism, copyright or BLP violation. It is rather a minor issue and Raymond was collaborating on talk page. FWIW, Raymond is correct about the notability of the article, and should be appreciated for contesting the unwarranted speedy deletion. Compared to most of the editors in this area, Raymond is not disruptive, he is rather a knowledgeable editor who already realized his mistake prior the topic ban. Since the sanction was unwarranted and apparently punitive, I am supporting removal of the topic ban. D4iNa4 (talk) 17:33, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by Sitush[edit]I've done a very small bit of very significant fixing at the 2006 Bhiwandi lynching article and opened a significant discussion on its talk page. D4iNa4 characterising the problems there as being "minor" is very disturbing. The article was quite obviously an anti-Muslim hatchet job and I'm afraid that as such it falls near the very heart of our existing discretionary sanctions regimes. Stoking communal pressures like this is not a "minor issue" and I am alarmed at that suggestion from someone whom I've seen editing Indic articles quite a lot. - Sitush (talk) 18:03, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Addendum: D4iNa4 also incorrectly represents Raymond3023's position regarding notability of the article, as that talk page makes clear. - Sitush (talk) 18:31, 8 January 2018 (UTC) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Raymond3023[edit]Comment by Winged Blades of Godric[edit]
Comment by Ms Sarah Welch[edit]There are serious sourcing issues with Raymond3023 edits, far beyond the article in question. See, these three articles for example:
I support NeilN's ARBIPA action. Maybe it was too short, measured, modestly trying to encourage behavior modification, as NeilN's actions generally tend to be. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 17:55, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Comment by (IP)[edit]This is a user from Hyderabad India ,I used to edit Wikipedia but quit in 2016,If anyone wants to know my previous account can disclose it privately.The Edits were made by User:John Jaffar Janardan not by Raymond3023 who neither reverted nor added the content only removed the deletion tag as the subjects are clearly notable .If there is a case of pushing anti-Muslim point of view ,It was done by User:John Jaffar Janardan the articles created when I used to edit were done in 2016 and were never edited by Raymond3023 until they were tagged by Vanamonde .This article Paras Rajput was POV deleted after being tagged by Vanamonde .It was No consenus in a AFD Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paras Rajput hence should not been speedy deleted .Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement should not be used to settle disputes over content issues of Vanamonde and other editors.Again the issue over sources discussed in talk in Vastu_shastra is a Multi editor discussion Ms Sarah Welch should have disclosed her previous account User:ApostleVonColorado and was earlier under sanction which the user is concealing. 42.111.133.233 (talk) 21:49, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Comment by Capitals00[edit]@Sandstein and GoldenRing: You have analyzed what Raymond did, but admins should also look at the misconduct of Vanamonde93. As per the Wikipedia:Deletion policy, "Speedy deletion is meant to remove pages that are so obviously inappropriate for Wikipedia that they have no chance of surviving a deletion discussion", yet Vanamonde93 still tagged the article that is likely going to survive a deletion discussion and policy also notes that "If there is a dispute over whether a page meets the criteria, the issue is typically taken to deletion discussions", but Vanamonde93 edit warred over the tag [25] and made a misleading claim on edit summary that Raymond is "an involved editor", regardless of the fact that Raymond never edited the article before. This battleground mentality doesn't end here. After restoring the tag in place of bringing it to Afd, Vanamonde93 made no attempt to fix the content issue and made no input on talk page either,[26] but went to report an admin without notifying Raymond by using the Echo notification system or by posting a message.[27] Given that neither has clean hands, I think both Raymond and Vanamonde should be warned. Capitals00 (talk) 05:24, 9 January 2018 (UTC) Comment by Kautilya3[edit]I support NeilN's sanction. Raymond3023 has been walking on the edge for a long time (see Ms Sarah Welch's input), and it was only a matter of time before he got caught out. I also think Raymond is capable of reform, and three months will likely do it. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 06:28, 9 January 2018 (UTC) Result of the appeal by Raymond3023[edit]
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Anmolbhat
[edit]There is no appetite for issuing sanctions here. Additionally, the administrator who originally put in the civility restriction has chosen to strike it, although I would note that all other unstruck provisions still hold. The problem is where we draw the line on what is and isn't "civil" particularly when the activities of others are less than stellar. I suggest the involved editors focus more on dialog and less on tripping people up on technical violations. I also suggest that everyone, including Anmolbhat, be more civil. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 20:41, 14 January 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Anmolbhat[edit]
This user has not just been blocked but had received repeated warnings about his incorrect behavior but still he does not show any sign of improvement.1234 and has also been warned many times to stop their unconstructive editing.56 7 The user JosephusOfJerusalem also filed a complaint against Anmolbhat for breaking the civility restriction but the closing of that complaint has only further emboldened this user to break ARBIPA sanctions even more. You would have expected he would learn but he is still doing it. And if unsubstantiated accusations of meat puppetry is not a personal attack (WP:NPA#WHATIS) I do not know what is.
Discussion concerning Anmolbhat[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Anmolbhat[edit]Statement by Kautilya3[edit]I don't know about "meatpuppetry" but an obvious of WP:Tag teaming to game the edit restrictions in place for Kashmir conflict-related articles. NadirAli's previous edit to the page was on 9 January, when Anmolbhat's text was already present. NadirAli raised no objections then. He has made no talk page comment on this page ever, until the current one. Looking at what he writes: As for civility, let us look at Josephus's revert justification. Apparently the edit was a "POV edit" and a Having contributed to Kashmir conflict articles more than any one else here, let me say that there was absolutely nothing wrong with Anmolbhat's content. It is entirely factual with multiple citations for every line, no copyright violations (I have checked), and nobody has given the authority to JosephusOfJerusalem to demand explanations from editors as to why their content is "acceptable". As for his "credibility", which Anmolbhat has questioned before, who believes that this three month old account with 150 edits (mostly to talk pages) knows enough to give countless user warnings, knows so many admins, and is able to raise an ARE complaint? Dennis Brown has closed the previous ARE case rather too soon it seems. It would useful to let this one run its course, and find out the results of his research into the other aspects of the case. I would also like to ask RegentsPark how to address the tag teaming that is going on to game his edit restrictions. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:00, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
Statement by (JosephusOfJerusalem)[edit]I had indeed filed the report which Dilpa kaur points to, Dennis Brown seemed to have given Anmolbhat a lenient second chance which it seems he has not been grateful for. How many chances are we going to give him before he brings down the encyclopedia?? He should know better than to cast WP:ASPERSIONS on pages under civility restrictions. As for Kautilya3's WP:TEXTWALL, the content dispute should not be brought up here but since he has already brought it up I will say I have raised and outlined the problems in just the first sentence of Anmolbhat's contribution alone (the subsequent text being more or less the same POV) on the talkpage but there has been no satisfactory response, just WP:IDHT, red herrings and edit war by seeming tag teamers such as MBlaze Lightning who have extremely little to no contribution on the talkpage. I asked MBlaze Lightning (who contributed only a very vague sentence to the talkpage discussion (0)) to cite his evidence from the book (1) which he claimed supports the content and restore the last stable version, as is the rule of WP:NOCON, while the discussion was ongoing, following which NadirAli, who has had previous contributions to this page, had to restore the last stable version,(2) which Anmolbhat once again disruptively reverted.(3). JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 11:38, 13 January 2018 (UTC) Comment by WBG[edit]
Statement by Capitals00[edit]@GoldenRing: Have a look at Kautilya3's message for understanding the background. What I am seeing is that Anmolbhat was questioning the edit summary and asked the editor to clarify it, because the editor removed 13,000 bytes of content with a dubious edit summary and also provided superficial reasons on talk page. JosephusOfJerusalem has falsely accused Anmolbhat of making "POV edits", and violating "copyrights",[33] which is without a doubt accusation of editing in bad faith. NadriAli's false accusation of "POV content", and "misrepresentation" is just same.[34] And these accusations have no merit. Most people have agreed here that there is some suspicious activity going on with these accounts and currently there is an ANI thread[35] running against this issue. Capitals00 (talk) 09:58, 14 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Anmolbhat[edit]
@RegentsPark: I am happy to close this as no action, but I do have some difficulty squaring what you have written with the sanction you imposed. Accusations of meat-puppetry seem an obvious accusation of editing in bad faith. Since your restriction states that any accusations of editing in bad faith will result in an immediate block, I can certainly sympathise with those who are expecting a block to result from this report (whether such an outcome seems necessary, equitable or good for the encyclopaedia or not. GoldenRing (talk) 08:54, 14 January 2018 (UTC)Fixing broken ping of User:RegentsPark GoldenRing (talk) 09:28, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
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Arbitration motion regarding discretionary sanctions
[edit]- The following is cross-posted from the Arbitration Committee noticeboard.
The Arbitration Committee has resolved by motion that:
The Page restrictions section of the discretionary sanctions procedure is modified to the following:
Any uninvolved administrator may impose on any page or set of pages relating to the area of conflict page protection, revert restrictions, prohibitions on the addition or removal of certain content (except when consensus for the edit exists), or any other reasonable measure that the enforcing administrator believes is necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project. The enforcing administrator must log page restrictions they place.
Best practice is toEnforcing administrators must add an editnotice to restricted pageswhere appropriate, using the standard template ({{ds/editnotice}}), and should add a notice to the talk page of restricted pages.Editors who ignore or breach page restrictions may be sanctioned by any uninvolved administrator provided that, at the time the editor ignored or breached a page restriction:
- The editor was aware of discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict, and
- There was an editnotice ({{ds/editnotice}}) on the restricted page which specified the page restriction.
Editors using mobile devices may not see edit notices. Administrators should consider whether an editor was aware of the page restriction before sanctioning them.
The Awareness section of the discretionary sanctions procedure is modified to the following:
No editor may be sanctioned unless they are aware that discretionary sanctions are in force for the area of conflict. An editor is aware if:
- They were mentioned by name in the applicable Final Decision; or
- They have ever been sanctioned within the area of conflict (and at least one of such sanctions has not been successfully appealed); or
- In the last twelve months, the editor has given and/or received an alert for the area of conflict; or
- In the last twelve months, the editor has participated in any process about the area of conflict at arbitration requests or arbitration enforcement; or
- In the last twelve months, the editor has successfully appealed all their own sanctions relating to the area of conflict.
There are additional requirements in place when sanctioning editors for breaching page restrictions.
For the Arbitration Committee, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 23:42, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
- Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Arbitration motion regarding discretionary sanctions
Al-Andalus
[edit]Blocked for 1 week. GoldenRing (talk) 07:17, 17 January 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Al-Andalus[edit]
Al-Andalus has a history of disruption at this article, including restoring inaccurate claims about the dossier being funded by the The Washington Free Beacon to the lead multiple times from 1 November 2017 to 4 November 2017. Although I cannot produce the diffs because they have since been removed from the public logs, Al-Andalus's behavior resulted in this discussion and a warning from MelanieN:
Discussion concerning Al-Andalus[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Al-Andalus[edit]Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Al-Andalus[edit]
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Sir Joseph
[edit]Seems pointless to keep this open when so many admin have made it clear that sanctions are not going to happen. BLP does apply to talk pages, but this particular incident is so minor as to not be a case for ANI or AE. The primary complaint here is a talk page entry being uncited and could have easily been corrected by requesting a citation, or asking that the person strike the comment. Using the sledgehammer that is WP:AE is simply overkill for such a small thing. When something can be handled on the talk page itself, it should, rather than dragging it to an admin or arbitration board. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 01:39, 19 January 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Sir Joseph[edit]
This is a straight up BLP violation, following shortly on the heels of related problematic comments at other articles and ANI and part of a long term pattern. @Admins - last time I asked somebody to retract a DS violation I was accused of "threatening" the editor and threatened myself with a block "if I did that again". So hell no, I learned my lesson, I didn't ask him to retract first. Neither am I required to - he just needs to be notified of the discretionary sanctions, which he has been.Volunteer Marek (talk) 16:59, 18 January 2018 (UTC) @Dennis Brown: - Dennis, you link to a ... google search. I mean, for funky sake, all you did is google "Durbin lies" and that's it. And claim that "finding a source is easy". Is it? The first source I get says "Someone is lying about that 'shithole' meeting. And I think I know who." The "I know who" is NOT Durbin. The second source I get says "Here's exactly how Dick Durbin destroyed Kirstjen Nielsen's 'shithole' explanation". Yeah, I don't think that source supports "Durbin lied" either. Third source says "Tom Cotton, David Perdue, and the Trap of Lying for Donald Trump" - that's not "Durbin caught lying" either. And that's putting aside that the "caught lying" remark was not in reference to Trump's "shithole" remark but supposedly happened during Obama administration. Sir Joseph was clearly saying that Durbin had a history of lying. Without backing it up (also, frankly, it's not your job to find sources for him). That's a clear cut BLP vio.Volunteer Marek (talk) 17:03, 18 January 2018 (UTC) And here is the thing - pretty much all sources in that google search you posted Dennis, refer to SOMEBODY ELSE lying, not Durbin. You should have at least put the search term in quotes. Searching google properly is not hard. Now, there are a couple (two precisely) sources that say that Durbin has a history of lying. Guess what? One is a ... sports forum, 247Sports.com and the "lying" is just commentary from users. The other is a non-reliable source which routinely attacks individuals (Daily Wire). Jeez christ, I didn't think I'd have to say this to an admin but WP:COMPETENCE is required.Volunteer Marek (talk) 17:08, 18 January 2018 (UTC) @Masem - it was GoldenRing a few months ago. It will take me a bit of time to find it again.Volunteer Marek (talk) 17:10, 18 January 2018 (UTC) @Dennis - which reliable sources? Volunteer Marek (talk) 18:47, 18 January 2018 (UTC) @MelanieN & Number57 - the big difference is that MrX provides a source. Actually three. In his second comment he just refers to his first comment. Volunteer Marek (talk) 20:16, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Sir Joseph[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Sir Joseph[edit]So the first I notice about this is an AE notice on my page, no questions or comments, especially since I posted the source on the same page before. In any event, here's the Politico source frmo 2013 where Durbin lied about a closed meeting and the White House had to shut him down. [43] Sir Joseph (talk) 17:16, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Statement by The Rambling Man[edit]Just a quick question, did you ask him to (a) retract it or (b) source it, before launching the kitchen sink at him? The Rambling Man (talk) 15:57, 18 January 2018 (UTC) I could find no evidence of any such request. This seems to me to be a classic case of using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. Trouts. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:05, 18 January 2018 (UTC) RegentsPark I'm now curious, if he had said Lance Armstrong was caught lying, would the same BLP violation (as you perceive it) apply, and a warning be necessary? We're going to need to start high alerts on all talk pages. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:33, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Dave[edit]Saying a BLP is lying is not a DS violation by any stretch of the imagination ..... As TRM says the best course of action would've been to ask them to either provide a source or retract it. I urge the Committee to Speedy Decline this case. –Davey2010Talk 16:19, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Statement by SPECIFICO[edit]Joseph has repeatedly violated DS and is a generally disruptive editor at the American Politics articles and associated talk pages. I think Admins here should focus on enforcement at whatever level is needed to prevent future disruption. I see no basis to hope that further warnings from Volunteer Marek would somehow change Joseph's behavior. Dear Admins: There's not enough patrolling of these articles by our volunteer Admins. Then when non-Admin editors take the time to report an obvious violation, their report too often ends up in a long drama thread at AE and extensive appeals and recrimination and deflection. I think a better model is simply for AE to carry out the escalating sanctions Arbcom mandated in the AP2 decision. SPECIFICO talk 16:42, 18 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by MjolnirPants[edit]Uninvolved comment This should have been resolved by asking for a source, not jumping immediately to AE. I don't see any attempts to request a source in that discussion or at Joe's user talk. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:48, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Statement by MelanieN[edit](Disclaimer: I am involved at that article, so I am commenting as an ordinary editor and not as an admin.) I would note that in the same discussion, on 18 January, User:MrX accused three people of lying under oath at 14:04 and again at 14:12 - in fact that was the very comment to which Sir Joseph replied, at 15:28. For some reason, VM didn’t find MrX’s repeated accusations to be reportable. I am not saying that MrX should be considered for sanctions too, not at all. My point is that 1) at talk pages (as opposed to articles) people are sometimes a little free with their comments about living people, and 2) VM seems to have been very selective in his outrage. --MelanieN (talk) 18:26, 18 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by Nishidani[edit]I'm somewhat confused by assertions above that one can use a talk page to abuse a living person on Wikipedia. The banner at Talk:Hillel Neuer reads:-
Notwithstanding this, SJ repeatedly defamed a living person. At Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hillel Neuer The Hillel Neuer AfD , SJ repeatedly made wild, partisan remarks saying it was a ‘fact’ that Richard Falk, Princeton professor of international law, and a human rights specialist, was an antisemite. I thought that was a breach of the rule set down in the talk page banner. See I told him to drop these serious BLP violations. Though his accusations completely skewed the known facts, and indeed defied the facts, he still persisted in calling on a talk page a distinguished international jurist an antisemite Whatever is done here, some clarification should be given regarding whether BLP applies to remarks editors make on a talk page. Nishidani (talk) 19:33, 18 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Sir Joseph[edit]
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Greggens
[edit]Greggens topic banned for one month from all pages related to post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people. Also topic banned for six months from topics involving Elizabeth Warren, broadly construed. --NeilN talk to me 04:15, 19 January 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Greggens[edit]
This user is apparently deeply convinced that Elizabeth Warren is an impostor, and absolutely insistent that Wikipedia must factually describe her as an impostor. This is despite the fact that reliable sources do not do so, and thus we cannot. They have come up with a million and one excuses and demands, and have ignored multiple editors explaining to them why they cannot do what they seek to do. I am asking that this editor be topic-banned indefinitely from anything have to do with Elizabeth Warren, as their edits are contrary to basic content policies and are wasting the time of other editors. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 03:21, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Greggens[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Greggens[edit]Recently, one of my good faith edits has been reverted based on one user's opinion of what constitutes a "violation" of Wikipedia policy. User: NorthBySouthBaranof has been telling me lately that Elizabeth Warren does not belong in Category:Impostors based on his/her interpretation of WP:SYNTH. While I respect this person's point of view on the matter, I have not ignored what he/she or any other editors have told me about this subject. I have merely offered rebuttals, listing reasons why I believe my original edit adding the Warren article to "Impostors" was not a violation of policy. The edit in question was based partly on information written in sources already cited in the article, and partly on common sense definitions of the word "impostor." NorthBySouthBaranof's opinion is based solely on personal interpretation of policy, not on concrete fact. For example, this user claims that putting the article in the Impostors category would be inappropriate because "No reliable source here calls her an impostor." Since when does the media have to use a term on a given politician before Wikipedians can have permission to use that exact same term on that exact same politician? For the record, I have not attempted to restore the disputed edit; rather, I have sought consensus as to what should be done. Also, I have not made any edits to any page which I have been explicitly told not to edit. If I believed that an edit I was about to make was against Wikipedia policy, I would not make that edit. So far, the only comments that I see are from those involved with the "Impostor?" discussion on Talk:Elizabeth Warren. By rule, results concerning me are only to be made by uninvolved admins. These charges are frivolous, unfounded, and unwarranted. Please rescind them. If you don't want me to categorize this article under "Impostors," then fine. I won't put the article in that category. No need to impose any sanctions. Greggens (talk) 04:03, 19 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Greggens[edit]
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KU2018
[edit]Blocked as a sockpuppet. Discussion about enforcing discretionary sanctions can continue elsewhere if desired. --NeilN talk to me 01:27, 20 January 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning KU2018[edit]
(Note Breitbart News is subject to editing restrictions. See Template:Editnotices/Page/Breitbart News
This editor is also repeatedly adding poorly-sourced content to BLP Alex Jones. See recent history and warnings: 1, 2.- MrX 🖋 13:47, 19 January 2018 (UTC) Despite of multiple warnings and being reviewed at WP:AE, this user continues to insert the same content that violates WP:BLPSOURCES and WP:RS: [47][48][49][50]
Discussion concerning KU2018[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by KU2018[edit]I first removed the text, which I shouldn't have done. However, I realised when going on to the talk page that I was wrong to do this. Earlier today I put in a compromise - putting the 'far right' label further down the page. This helped restructure the sections of the lead. I did not remove the far right label on the second and third edit, as stated in this request.This was consistent (Breitbart talk archive 3) with the previously agreed consensus as this stated quite vaguely that the far right label could be used in 'some circumstances'. I reverted this once as the text was removed even though it was consistent with the consensus. I did not revert a second time as I was aware that the 1RR was there. I would not have chamged the far right wording if it was against the consensus of the discussion. I will not be editing until monday. KU2018 (talk) 14:52, 19 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by MjolnirPants[edit]It is worth noting that KU2018 had previously agreed to stop pushing for this change to the article, in the face of unanimous opposition and a large opposing consensus. See this edit, dated Jan 15th. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 15:24, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Dr. Fleischman[edit]While we're on the subject of administrative sanctions... not an AE issue specifically, but KU2018's username, which refers to Kingston University per their user page, appears to be a violation of our username policy. I mentioned this on their user talk, got no response. Their user page raises meatpuppetry-related issues as well, though I see no evidence of bad faith here. (I am not watching this page, so please ping me if you want my attention.) --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 16:51, 19 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning KU2018[edit]
I'm of the view that page-level restrictions should be enforced by the administrators who impose them, in this case, Ks0stm (talk · contribs). Sandstein 14:06, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Greggens
[edit]Appeal declined. There is a general feeling among admins that the sanction was if anything too mild. Greggens is urged to be less combative in the sensitive areas of American politics and BLP, and to make more of an effort to listen to the concerns of other editors. Bishonen | talk 11:36, 21 January 2018 (UTC). |
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by Greggens[edit]Statements that are crossed out have been withdrawn by the appellant I have always been a proponent of WP:BLP, adhering to its instructions as best as I possibly can. In fact, one of the things that I enjoy is, when I find something that is unsourced, I find a source to back it up and insert it into the appropriate article. As for my recent attempts at inserting a category or adding to a list, I misread the policy and thought I had all my ducks in a row each time. That's my bad. With respect to these edit attempts, even if there had been no sanctions imposed, I would not have restored the edit, anyway, since there was no consensus in favor of it (I believe that gaining consensus for restoring such reverted edits is one of the things that WP:BLP mentions, in WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE). To prevent future misunderstandings of WP:BLP, I'd be happy to talk with other admins about how to clarify the letter of the policy. In the meantime, I'll be more careful when exercising the liberties granted to editors, and I'll continue, as I always have, to follow the rules with respect to WP:BLP and also encourage others to do so as well.
I request that all sanctions be lifted immediately. Statement by NeilN[edit]Greggens is not new editor. In the past, their editing has almost exclusively focused on American highways, reality shows, and celebrities. This past week they've made edits to a variety of American Politics articles on controversial subjects, all problematic.
This prompted the one month AP topic ban. An editor who has been here since 2014 and with almost 3,500 edits should know better. If they don't, then they need to take the time to see what the community expects in this area. The six month Elizabeth Warren topic ban was prompted by NorthBySouthBaranof's evidence, specifically [53], [54], and [55] coming after discussion. --NeilN talk to me 04:54, 20 January 2018 (UTC) This filing at ANI also shows that despite being warned and notified, Greggens does not understand our BLP policy. "Eventually, NorthBySouthBaranof submitted a request for enforcement against me, anyway, but only after I had edited another page that wasn't a BLP (or recently-deceased person). It was merely a list article..." --NeilN talk to me 05:01, 20 January 2018 (UTC) I did look at Greggens' edits on other BLPs when developing the sanctions and they seemed for the most part gnome-work and uncontentious. Major expansions like this have minor sourcing issues at first glance but they are understandable. The Warren edits were unusual for this editor as the few major BLP edits Greggens has made are more like this. --NeilN talk to me 13:09, 20 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof[edit]Greggens, you ignored those warnings by duplicating the objectionable edit on List of impostors. BLP applies to all content about living people anywhere in the encyclopedia. You cannot evade its requirements merely by moving a BLP-violating edit to some different page. This is why myself and other editors have urged you strongly to review our policies before editing in these areas — you clearly do not understand how our policies work. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 05:08, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 1)[edit]Statement by (involved editor 2)[edit]Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Greggens[edit]
Result of the appeal by Greggens[edit]
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Ihardlythinkso
[edit]Ihardlythinkso blocked for 1 week for violation of topic ban. MastCell Talk 05:54, 22 January 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Ihardlythinkso[edit]
The purpose of the May diffs was to show that restraint was exercised by not reporting him for those violations, even those he displayed vulgar disdain for the explanations he was given. Dennis Brown I'm perplexed by your comment on several levels. I'm not aware that there are technical topic van violations and non-technical topic ban violations. Also, IHTS's comments in the AfD exhibit a profoundly-shallow, if not obtuse, understanding of what race is commonly understood to mean. When an editor starts referring to respected Journalists and fellow editors as ignorant and uneducated, the quality of the discussion goes right off a cliff. Given IHTS's colorful history of personal attacks, I think a week duration block is insufficient, but of course, that's not my department.- MrX 🖋 16:16, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Ihardlythinkso[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Ihardlythinkso[edit]
Statement by Galobtter[edit]So I trawled through his edits and I found these two diffs in September among the thousands of minor chess edits - "was only "shocking" to Hillary supporters, was "delightful" to Trump supporters, so tell me this isn't typical liberal WP bias, duh!" and this on Dina Powell, the U.S. Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategy to President Donald Trump. I don't know how much relevance it has being months old; just thought I'd add here, being blatant violations (and showing a pattern of violations). There's also another edit to Shooting of Kathyrn Steinle here in July. (later addendum: probably not really a violation as not editing the part of the article related to politics, though toeing the line) There's four edits to the talk page of illegal immigration in the united states (marked as being under AP2 DS) in June. first diff (another addendum: not Those are essentially all the edits that could be violations of the t-ban since June. Galobtter (pingó mió) 17:16, 21 January 2018 (UTC) I also don't know what Dennis Brown is on about - Ihardlythinkso's statements definitely added some hostility to the debate. Galobtter (pingó mió) 17:22, 21 January 2018 (UTC) Regarding those edits to Talk:Illegal Immigration - incivility of I think for repeatedly violating t-ban (blatantly too) with incivility a longer block is necessitated Galobtter (pingó mió) 17:52, 21 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Ihardlythinkso[edit]
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Doncram
[edit]Doncram is formally warned to focus on himself and the contributions he can make on the site, casting aspersions or antagonizing other editors in any form will not be tolerated. There is no further action required at this time. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 21:17, 22 January 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Doncram[edit]
In response to the announcement about the suspension of the Doncram case's interaction ban, Doncram promptly proceeded to attack the other party in the ban, as well attacking the same party in the discussion about case names versus numbers. When I left a note saying "this is precisely the kind of behavior prohibited in the announcement", he proceeded to attack me. Note the complete lack of evidence: you can't get a better example of WP:WIAPA point #1, Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. We routinely issue first-time blocks to editors who make this kind of attack, but Doncram's been significantly sanctioned for this precise kind of behavior in a past arbitration case, but he's still bringing up issues from five years ago to attack multiple editors. After this long, it's obvious that he'll not decide to comply with NPA. It's time to lock the door and throw away the key.
Discussion concerning Doncram[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Doncram[edit]Statement by Mendaliv[edit]Honestly I think part of this is post-litigation frustration, kind of like how blocked editors are sometimes given some leeway for sounding off in ways that would otherwise be sanctionable. Considering this is 100% Doncram, I am hopeful that the outcome here is just with respect to Doncram. Maybe a block, maybe a short one-way IBAN until Doncram calms, but not immediately reversing the Committee's decision to let the IBAN lapse. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 03:16, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
Statement by DHeyward[edit]Three points:
Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Doncram[edit]
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